Prospect Info: 2020-2021 Senators Prospect Watch - Part 3

[Micklebot]

Greig has plenty to prove at the WHL level.

I like Mann but that's nonsense.

I think Mann is coming from the perspective of he showed he can play at the next level already. It's a bit unique in that most of the time guys like Greig would not have had those games in the AHL under their belt, but with them he's proven he is AHL ready

Does that mean he can't improve on his last WHL season, no, but to what end? If he has a 120 pts season playing in the WHL does it prove he's more ready for the AHL? If the end goal is to prove you are ready to progress to the next level, and he has shown himself to be ready for the next level, then what is he proving by dominating a lower level.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I think Mann is coming from the perspective of he showed he can play at the next level already. It's a bit unique in that most of the time guys like Greig would not have had those games in the AHL under their belt, but with them he's proven he is AHL ready

Does that mean he can't improve on his last WHL season, no, but to what end? If he has a 120 pts season playing in the WHL does it prove he's more ready for the AHL? If the end goal is to prove you are ready to progress to the next level, and he has shown himself to be ready for the next level, then what is he proving by dominating a lower level.

Greig can play at the AHL level now because of his advanced two-way game, but that doesn't mean he can't learn anything more at the WHL level.

Offensive games are best developed playing against players of the same age group, not against men. There's no question Greig's all around game is pro-quality, but he still has a lot to prove offensively.

Same line of thinking resulted in Lazar being rushed to the NHL and his development being stunted.

 

[playasRus]

Greig can play at the AHL level now because of his advanced two-way game, but that doesn't mean he can't learn anything more at the WHL level.

Offensive games are best developed playing against players of the same age group, not against men. There's no question Greig's all around game is pro-quality, but he still has a lot to prove offensively.

Same line of thinking resulted in Lazar being rushed to the NHL and his development being stunted.

I guess the thing to see is would Greig be a top 6 forward getting PP time in AHL this coming season. If not, best have him go be the leader and 20+ min all situation guy in the WHL and then come back the next year ready to push for a top 6 spot then to have him not get the chance to develop those parts of his game. Maybe going back juniors doesn't change his end product as a checking forward, but nothing to lose by delaying his promotion if he's not going to be contributing anyways as a 10min/game rookie benched every few stretches.

 

[Xspyrit]

If Greig could play a full season against men at 19 y/o, that'd be great. Plus go to the WJC that he unfortunately missed last year. That 19 y/o season would be very similar to what Stutzle did in the NHL last season, but a level below. I believe Greig is a pretty good prospect himself and could be up to the task.

But of course if the kid is not ready mentally and physically, then he goes back to junior. I assume Troy Mann knows what he is talking about and knows what Ridly Greig is made of.

Yes, they did kick off a re-build 3 months later, and you can say that it was evidence that PD misjudged the strength of his team and should have realized that the previous years cup run was catching lightning in a bottle. However, I don't think you can say that on the day the trade happened PD had the intention of blowing it all up 3 months later, the team sucked after the trade and I think it became evident that they wouldn't be competitive. The horse was already out of the barn.

The team from the cup run was not bad at all, we could have continued to improve it (financially healthy teams would have done that) but there was problems the following year :

Marc Methot and Clarke MacArthur : never replaced
Bobby Ryan, Dion Phaneuf and Craig Anderson : declines due to age/injuries : never replaced
Karlsson surgery : nobody to take pressure off him

That's 5 big holes declining fast or not replaced adequatly. Plus teams adjusting and figuring out how to play against Boucher's Sens. Oh and the Hoffman vs Karlsson fiasco to complicate things even more. Room was probably divided, they weren't following Boucher anymore and the ship sank. As we can see with the Habs current run, most NHL teams are capable of doing good or bad, it depends on a lot of factors and sometimes it doesn't even take that much to change a team's momentum.

But the idea of upgrading Turris to Duchene was great but it was another half assed job. They had to be certain other "factors" on the team wouldn't backfire. Kinda gambled "everything will stay the same and go well" and lost.

 

[Micklebot]

Greig can play at the AHL level now because of his advanced two-way game, but that doesn't mean he can't learn anything more at the WHL level.

Offensive games are best developed playing against players of the same age group, not against men. There's no question Greig's all around game is pro-quality, but he still has a lot to prove offensively.

Same line of thinking resulted in Lazar being rushed to the NHL and his development being stunted.

I disagree with the premise that offensive games are best improved against players of the same age group. Offense is improved by playing at a level of competition that aligns with the prospects abilities.Mamnmay feel his offensive game will improve more by facing pro style defense than juniors. It all comes down to where specifically his improvement is needed.

 

[Xspyrit]

I disagree with the premise that offensive games are best improved against players of the same age group. Offense is improved by playing at a level of competition that aligns with the prospects abilities.Mamnmay feel his offensive game will improve more by facing pro style defense than juniors. It all comes down to where specifically his improvement is needed.

Real athletes become better by playing against the best, that's how you improve. Of course you have to be mentally and physically ready for that. I was never a pro but I became better by facing harder competition. Then when I played lower competition again, it felt kinda really easy.

Maybe Curtis Lazar was never supposed to be more than a bottom-6 forward at the NHL level, which is already pretty good. Some talk like if Lazar was a bust but if you look at 2013, there wasn't many 1st round/early 2nd options after that would have been better (Mantha, Burakovsky, Theodore, Hartman... Who else?)

 

[Dan Patrick]

I disagree with the premise that offensive games are best improved against players of the same age group. Offense is improved by playing at a level of competition that aligns with the prospects abilities.Mamnmay feel his offensive game will improve more by facing pro style defense than juniors. It all comes down to where specifically his improvement is needed.

Also worth mentioning offence can be improved at any level so long as the coaching specifically is there and willing. If Mann believes Greig is better served learning in the AHL under him rather than back in Brandon under Don MacGillivray then I would tend to believe him.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Troy Mann just said in his interview today that he didn't feel Davidsson was a North American style hockey player. He thought injuries might have played a role in impeding his development but that he didn't feel his style of play was well suited for North America and that is why they decided to move on from him.

 

[Cosmix]

Greig can play at the AHL level now because of his advanced two-way game, but that doesn't mean he can't learn anything more at the WHL level.

Offensive games are best developed playing against players of the same age group, not against men. There's no question Greig's all around game is pro-quality, but he still has a lot to prove offensively.

Same line of thinking resulted in Lazar being rushed to the NHL and his development being stunted.

Yes I agree. Rushing a young player into the NHL before he has developed and honed his skillset and matured physically can be detrimental to a player.

I am a firm believer that a player develops his skills primarily during practice, not games. It is repetitive behaviour with feedback from coaches that builds the skill set. Games do not provide sufficient opportunity to develop skill because the player has limited ice time during a game and probably has the puck only about 10% of his ice-time. However, games provide an opportunity to try out the skills against opponents in game situations which is very useful for honing the skills in a pressure situation where time and space are limited.

I think I read somewhere that teams are not permitted to require development work in the off season as part of the CBA; however they can provide the player with suggestions for skill development and improvement. This makes it important to research a player's desire to get better by training in the off-season and use that as a factor in draft selection. If a player demonstrates before being drafted or signed through his own actions that he wants to get better and takes training courses to improve his skills in the off-season (skating, shooting, checking, etc.), than that is the type of player I would prefer, provided they are basically at the same skill level and age level.

 

[Cosmix]

Troy Mann just said in his interview today that he didn't feel Davidsson was a North American style hockey player. He thought injuries might have played a role in impeding his development but that he didn't feel his style of play was well suited for North America and that is why they decided to move on from him.

A few years too late to come to that conclusion.

 

[Mosby]

 

[aragorn]

I think Mann is coming from the perspective of he showed he can play at the next level already. It's a bit unique in that most of the time guys like Greig would not have had those games in the AHL under their belt, but with them he's proven he is AHL ready

Does that mean he can't improve on his last WHL season, no, but to what end? If he has a 120 pts season playing in the WHL does it prove he's more ready for the AHL? If the end goal is to prove you are ready to progress to the next level, and he has shown himself to be ready for the next level, then what is he proving by dominating a lower level.

I took it to mean a show of confidence for the kid, that although he is still too young to play in the AHL Mann knows that Greig is good enough & that he should go back & potentially dominate in his junior league as a very good young player with pro potential. At 18 & 19 yrs old he could have some self doubts & here is a coach telling him that he thinks he has pro potential & should push aside those doubts & go back & get better. I'm paraphrasing of course, but essentially IMO it's a coach building up a young man to let him know he is good enough & needs to get better by continuing doing what he has been doing & working harder as the pros do to be the best player he can be.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

The 2nd video in my Shifts & Clips series is ready to go. Check out some of Egor Sokolov's best moments from this season.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

In case anyone missed the first video in my Shifts & Clips series I will re-post it here. I was impressed with Curtis Douglas and thought some other Sens fans might want to get a look at his play this season. He has some impressive speed and agility for a player listed at 6'9. He could end up being a solid player for the Sens in the future.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Looking for some info on players who made their NHL debut last season. What kind of future outlook do these guys have?

Parker Kelly
Filip Gustavsson
Olle Alsing
Artem Zub

 

[BondraTime]

Looking for some info on players who made their NHL debut last season. What kind of future outlook do these guys have?

Parker Kelly
Filip Gustavsson
Olle Alsing
Artem Zub

Zub has a very bright future as an already a good top 4 D

Kelly may carve a career out as a 4th line journeyman

Gus looks to be a future NHL goalie, though how good is yet to be seen

Alsing won’t see NHL action again, he got his cup of coffee and is done here.

 

[Xspyrit]

Looking for some info on players who made their NHL debut last season. What kind of future outlook do these guys have?

Parker Kelly
Filip Gustavsson
Olle Alsing
Artem Zub

Parker Kelly : 4th line energy forward, how many NHL games can he play is the question. I'd say he has the potential to be a similar player to Cedric Paquette

Filip Gustavsson : starting goaltender, if he continues on his current path, sky is the limit

Olle Alsing : back to europe in the near future. Could survive a NHL shift but doesn't bring anything special to be a NHLer.

Artem Zub : should be a top-4 D-man for years, excellent defensively, shows a lot of poise, doesn't panic and makes good decisions. Even has some underrated offense ability

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Zub has a very bright future as an already a good top 4 D

Kelly may carve a career out as a 4th line journeyman

Gus looks to be a future NHL goalie, though how good is yet to be seen

Alsing won’t see NHL action again, he got his cup of coffee and is done here.

Out of curiosity, is that saying "cup of coffee" limited to a certain number of games? Would any player that plays less than 100 games fit that label or would it refer to anyone who plays less than 30 games? I am just curious when the cut off is.

 

[Good in Osgoode]

I would consider cup of coffee in the single digit number of games (1 to 9 games).
So, Alsing basically falls right in the middle of that range at 4 games with Ottawa Senators.
As mentioned above, he looked just adequate in the games he played.
Was hoping for another Zub but I guess that might be asking a little too much.
Those kind of "diamond in the rough" type finds do not come along very often.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Not a Sens prospect yet

 

[aragorn]

While most agree that Sanderson is going to be a very good player for the Ottawa Senators I also think that Kleven will some day hold down that 3rd pairing LD spot. He's big, he's mobile, he can block shots, hit & he's tough & if he can add some pts from the backend would be a perfect 3rd pairing LD for this team & exactly what they would need in any playoff run in the future.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

While most agree that Sanderson is going to be a very good player for the Ottawa Senators I also think that Kleven will some day hold down that 3rd pairing LD spot. He's big, he's mobile, he can block shots, hit & he's tough & if he can add some pts from the backend would be a perfect 3rd pairing LD for this team & exactly what they would need in any playoff run in the future.

Very well could. I would have no issues drafting a LD though. If Kleven takes that spot thats fine by me. He is the type we need there.

 

[Xspyrit]

I see a cup of coffee players guys that never play a full NHL season but got a few call ups in a season or various seasons

Ex :

David Dziurzynski 12 GP in 2012-13 and 14 GP in 2015-16

Buddy Robinson 3 GP in 2015-16, 4 GP in 2016-17, 5 GP in 2019-20 and 9 GP in 2020-21

 

[aragorn]

Very well could. I would have no issues drafting a LD though. If Kleven takes that spot thats fine by me. He is the type we need there.

I think they go after a RD to compliment Kleven in future, maybe another mobile big 3rd pairing RD defensive guy for the PK. They could after both Morrow & Mailloux in the 2nd rd or some other Rd they like better.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think they go after a RD to compliment Kleven in future, maybe another mobile big 3rd pairing RD defensive guy for the PK. They could after both Morrow & Mailloux in the 2nd rd or some other Rd they like better.

They could but if someone like Simon Edvinsson falls to them at 10 .. I'd have no issue with them taking him. I agree they should target RD but at 10 Ceuleman's would be the best option and that would be a reach .. they've done it before though. They can target one or two in the 2nd round.
To me if you end up with 2 BIG LD that can play bottom pair minimum but are NHL Dmen .. that is not a bad thing.. very moveable assets that have good value.