Speculation: 2019-2020 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Dicdonya]

What depth players do you think played a crucial role in our playoff success?

Justin Braun in his role is just about the only depth player that I look at and say “he had a strong playoff performance, having him in that role was a luxury that benefitted our team, and we may not have that luxury next year”. However, Braun was actually a bonafide top-4 defenseman on this team, he just played on the bottom pairing. So even he does not really qualify.

And yes, the team will be relying on Karlsson being healthy and putting up an elite performance. That is what happens when you sink a near $100M commitment into one of the best players in the world.



I would say Meier was a part of that first group and I would say that he played very well. I might also bump Jones down to the group of secondary players who also did not perform so well. Otherwise, I pretty much agree on all counts.

Since you agree generally with the poster above, I’d say the depth that mattered was Labanc, Thornton, and a guy I keep forgetting we’re losing too, Nyquist. Also Pavs had an impact, although not especially on the ice outside of setting the tone game 7 vs Col.

Also let’s face it, we were lucky to get past Vegas, and the Blues played us like Vegas did, and we didn’t get past them. They both used their 4th lines to shut down our top line, and beat our players to a pulp, and if not for having useful depth like Labanc, Nyquist, Thornton etc we would have been gone round one without question.

So going into this offseason, we potentially don’t even have 6 top 6 forwads. Our potential bottom six is still guys like Melker, Goodrow, Sorenson etc, of whom not a ton can be expected. Thornton if he even comes back is another year older, who knows what he has left.

So looking at this, we need to somehow acquire a top 6 forward with no cap space, but probably need to get a couple bottom 6 guys too. Or hope that some of our prospects can actually step up.

All of this is before I even start going off about the fact that Deboer and his staff are still here, which means stuff like Donskoi being sat for Haley is still very possible with different players. Playing Goodrow 82 games. Not changing schemes all year despite it absolutely destroying our defense and goaltending etc.

So in closing, if you really think a healthy Karlsson is going to negate all the potential ills of this team, and riding guys like Hertl, Meier and Cooch alone will get us where we want to be, then so be it, we clearly view this team differently and that’s fine.

 

[Dicdonya]

To me the top-6 is basically:

Meier-Hertl-?
Kane-Couture-?

In my opinion, you figure out getting someone like Dzingel, Nyquist, Zucc, Lee, etc. Someone who is not a liability defensively but can contribute 40+ points a year. Figure out which pairing is better suited for the new acquisiton as well as Labanc and go from there.

Without trading atleast two of Braun, Dillon and Melker, can you show me how we afford any of those forwards assuming Karlsson is signed to 11mil?

I don’t disagree those guys can be top 6 guys for us, I just don’t see how we afford them.

So we have to assume, or hope, that DW actually wants to, and can trade guys, we may view as expendable, away to have a chance to sign those guys. I’m not holding my breath that DW views players the way we do here, and would sell off guys like Braun or Dillon as quickly as many of us would.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Without trading atleast two of Braun, Dillon and Melker, can you show me how we afford any of those forwards assuming Karlsson is signed to 11mil?

I don’t disagree those guys can be top 6 guys for us, I just don’t see how we afford them.

So we have to assume, or hope, that DW actually wants to, and can trade guys, we may view as expendable, away to have a chance to sign those guys. I’m not holding my breath that DW views players the way we do here, and would sell off guys like Braun or Dillon as quickly as many of us would.

I am most definitely expecting two, if not all three, of those guys to be traded. In addition see if there is a way to move Dell as well. We need to make the top-6 better and give a chance to the Cuda scorers to contribute in our bottom-6.

 

[STL Shark]

All I can really say to this is that I agree we had a good team on paper last year, and lo and behold that team made it to the wcf, and depth played a factor considering how many key injuries we had. Outside of our 4th line, I feel like every line played a significant factor in at least a few games.

So this year we will essentially be be the injured team that couldn’t quite make the finals before we even get to the playoffs. It seems like everything is riding on Karlsson not only staying healthy, but being dominant to make up for depth leaving.

I’m just not sold on that idea I guess. Hopefully I’m wrong though, and underestimating a healthy Karlsson, or we get some surprising production from a rookie or two, or DW has some more trade magic up his sleeve.

The fact that this team even made it to the WCF with a beat up Karlsson, missing Simek, Pavs out an entire series, Vlasic missing multiple games, and a career worst year from Jones (that’s pretty unlikely to be repeated given his stats from the rest of his career) says more about this “path forward” than anything.

I mean this group faced a ridiculous amount of adversity and it took no Karlsson, no Hertl, and no Pavelski to finally bury them. The likelihood of that sort of stuff being repeated at that magnitude is ridiculously low. Like take any team’s all world D-Man, top center, and leading goal scorer and they’ll struggle to win in the playoffs.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Since you agree generally with the poster above, I’d say the depth that mattered was Labanc, Thornton, and a guy I keep forgetting we’re losing too, Nyquist. Also Pavs had an impact, although not especially on the ice outside of setting the tone game 7 vs Col.

Also let’s face it, we were lucky to get past Vegas, and the Blues played us like Vegas did, and we didn’t get past them. They both used their 4th lines to shut down our top line, and beat our players to a pulp, and if not for having useful depth like Labanc, Nyquist, Thornton etc we would have been gone round one without question.

So going into this offseason, we potentially don’t even have 6 top 6 forwads. Our potential bottom six is still guys like Melker, Goodrow, Sorenson etc, of whom not a ton can be expected. Thornton if he even comes back is another year older, who knows what he has left.

So looking at this, we need to somehow acquire a top 6 forward with no cap space, but probably need to get a couple bottom 6 guys too. Or hope that some of our prospects can actually step up.

All of this is before I even start going off about the fact that Deboer and his staff are still here, which means stuff like Donskoi being sat for Haley is still very possible with different players. Playing Goodrow 82 games. Not changing schemes all year despite it absolutely destroying our defense and goaltending etc.

So in closing, if you really think a healthy Karlsson is going to negate all the potential ills of this team, and riding guys like Hertl, Meier and Cooch alone will get us where we want to be, then so be it, we clearly view this team differently and that’s fine.

Labanc and Thornton did not really make significant positive contributions to our run because everything they gave us in terms of offense, they gave up in terms of poor defensive play. Pavelski is a weird one but his biggest contribution was getting his head slammed on the ice and he also gave up more on the defensive side of things than he produced on offense. Just to back that up with some numbers, with at least one of Thornton/Pavelski/Labanc on the ice, we were out-scored 27-14. With none of them on the ice, we out-scored our opposition 21-17. (All 5V5 in the playoffs)

You can make an argument that Labanc was still a positive simply because of the magnitude and importance of his 4 points in 4 minutes, but he will be back anyway.

Nyquist does qualify as useful depth for sure. He was very good. Losing him will hurt, although there will probably be room to re-sign him or sign a replacement in UFA or trade for a replacement.

Oh and even if we were lucky to win against Vegas, the biggest reason why we were in a position where we had to be lucky to beat them is because of injuries to Vlasic and Karlsson. The 2nd biggest reason was because of our defensive system and goaltending which I have stated before are a massive problem, but which I have also stated that are much more important than whatever "depth" we had that didn't really show up in the playoffs.

 

[Dicdonya]

I am most definitely expecting two, if not all three, of those guys to be traded. In addition see if there is a way to move Dell as well. We need to make the top-6 better and give a chance to the Cuda scorers to contribute in our bottom-6.

Yeah and this I think is where atleast you and I start to diverge on our hopefulness for what’s going to happen this offseason. I am not expecting DW to actually trade all those guys. In fact I’ll be honestly shocked if he trades even two of them. This is a big reason why I’m not overly hopeful.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Yeah and this I think is where atleast you and I start to diverge on our hopefulness for what’s going to happen this offseason. I am not expecting DW to actually trade all those guys. In fact I’ll be honestly shocked if he trades even two of them. This is a big reason why I’m not overly hopeful.

So you really expect DW to go into next season spending $10.8M on Dell, Melker, Dillon, and Braun, while spending $0M on Donskoi, Pavelski, Nyquist, or another addition up front?

Brett Connolly is a guy that I would consider adding to our forward group.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Yeah and this I think is where atleast you and I start to diverge on our hopefulness for what’s going to happen this offseason. I am not expecting DW to actually trade all those guys. In fact I’ll be honestly shocked if he trades even two of them. This is a big reason why I’m not overly hopeful.

I am not sure honestly about what to expect anymore. What I said is my ideal scenario. If DW does not do that, we need to fill top-6 from within and we really don't have a player ready unless we roll the die with Chekhovich and hope to get extremely lucky with a rookie.

So much is hinging on EK65's decision right now. He still gives us the best chance to win but if not, you try for a top-6 F + Gardiner. I really don't think if that helps us as much but that would be the next best case scenario.

 

[Dicdonya]

The fact that this team even made it to the WCF with a beat up Karlsson, missing Simek, Pavs out an entire series, Vlasic missing multiple games, and a career worst year from Jones (that’s pretty unlikely to be repeated given his stats from the rest of his career) says more about this “path forward” than anything.

I mean this group faced a ridiculous amount of adversity and it took no Karlsson, no Hertl, and no Pavelski to finally bury them. The likelihood of that sort of stuff being repeated at that magnitude is ridiculously low. Like take any team’s all world D-Man, top center, and leading goal scorer and they’ll struggle to win in the playoffs.

Not sure why you’d expect Jones and this defense to play better under the same coach, and with the same personnel. It’s not like our defense and goaltending were good when Karlsson actually was healthy. So outside of a major philosophy shift from Deboer, I personally expect to see GDTs filled with Jones hate all over again this year.

Also yeah we made the WCF with those injuries, and you really think subbing Donskoi in, or moving someone like Labanc up from the third line didn’t make a difference compared to if our bottom six only had guys like gambrell, melker, radil etc to sub in or move up?

Basically game 6 of the blues series is what our team could look like if injuries happen next year if we don’t have depth players like Labanc, Donskoi etc. That didn’t look like a competitive team to me.

Btw, just to be clear to everyone discussing this with me, I’m not saying I think this team looks like shit, or anything like that, I’m merely saying I don’t see a cup caliber/favorite team right now, and that I’m not confident we have one by the time training camp starts because I don’t think DW actually pulls the trigger on trading all or most of Braun, Dillon, Melker, Dell etc.

I’m also not confident that our coach, given largely the same players from last year, does not continue to unwaveringly play guys like Melker, Goodrow, this years Haley if not literally Haley, and play an aggressive, fast style of offense that kills our defenders and makes our goalies look like ECHL players.

Really, I’m not actually concerned about our players despite talking about them, I’m concerned about our coach, and the GM who kept him mainly.

 

[Dicdonya]

So you really expect DW to go into next season spending $10.8M on Dell, Melker, Dillon, and Braun, while spending $0M on Donskoi, Pavelski, Nyquist, or another addition up front?

Brett Connolly is a guy that I would consider adding to our forward group.

Yeah I honestly do. Like I said I could see him moving maybe one of those guys, I’ll be surprised if he moves two, and I’ll eat my shoe if it’s 3 or more.

I think DW has a track record of signing, and/or not trading aging and once good players. He also has a track record of being loyal to his players, especially guys like Braun who have been warriors for us in the past, but might be fading a bit.

Edit- in fact I would be less surprised if DW trades Labanc before any of those guys

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Not sure why you’d expect Jones and this defense to play better under the same coach, and with the same personnel. It’s not like our defense and goaltending were good when Karlsson actually was healthy. So outside of a major philosophy shift from Deboer, I personally expect to see GDTs filled with Jones hate all over again this year.

Also yeah we made the WCF with those injuries, and you really think subbing Donskoi in, or moving someone like Labanc up from the third line didn’t make a difference compared to if our bottom six only had guys like gambrell, melker, radil etc to sub in or move up?

Basically game 6 of the blues series is what our team could look like if injuries happen next year if we don’t have depth players like Labanc, Donskoi etc. That didn’t look like a competitive team to me.

Btw, just to be clear to everyone discussing this with me, I’m not saying I think this team looks like ****, or anything like that, I’m merely saying I don’t see a cup caliber/favorite team right now, and that I’m not confident we have one by the time training camp starts because I don’t think DW actually pulls the trigger on trading all or most of Braun, Dillon, Melker, Dell etc.

I’m also not confident that our coach, given largely the same players from last year, does not continue to unwaveringly play guys like Melker, Goodrow, this years Haley if not literally Haley, and play an aggressive, fast style of offense that kills our defenders and makes our goalies look like ECHL players.

Really, I’m not actually concerned about our players despite talking about them, I’m concerned about our coach, and the GM who kept him mainly.

I actually think your concerns are legit. I do think Jones bounces back though simply because last year was his worst year with the Sharks and expect him to better.He showed flashes of that in the playoffs as well so we know he is not too far there. He will never be elite but I will take very good with flashes of elite.

But, yes, with or without EK65, that bottom-6 needs to be improved. And the only way to do that is bring in players from the Cuda who can actually score instead of favoring grit/energy players. True, Chekhovich, Chmelevski, Perron have also shows that they can score. Gambrell needs to step up his game considerably this year. Goodrow needs to be put on a short leash. Melker is actually very good as a 4th liner but makes too much for his role. Sorensen was good for the early part of the regular season but kind of tapered off later and during the playoffs.

I think our bottom-6 should be a revolving door early this year by letting players earn a spot on the Sharks. The bottom-6 last year was not very good and without Labanc they are going to be even worse. As far as team defense goes, PDB needs to go back to his original style that worked in 2016 instead of trying a Vegas style which does not suit our players. If he does not make that adjustment, we are going to struggle as well.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Not sure why you’d expect Jones and this defense to play better under the same coach, and with the same personnel. It’s not like our defense and goaltending were good when Karlsson actually was healthy. So outside of a major philosophy shift from Deboer, I personally expect to see GDTs filled with Jones hate all over again this year.

Also yeah we made the WCF with those injuries, and you really think subbing Donskoi in, or moving someone like Labanc up from the third line didn’t make a difference compared to if our bottom six only had guys like gambrell, melker, radil etc to sub in or move up?

Basically game 6 of the blues series is what our team could look like if injuries happen next year if we don’t have depth players like Labanc, Donskoi etc. That didn’t look like a competitive team to me.

Btw, just to be clear to everyone discussing this with me, I’m not saying I think this team looks like ****, or anything like that, I’m merely saying I don’t see a cup caliber/favorite team right now, and that I’m not confident we have one by the time training camp starts because I don’t think DW actually pulls the trigger on trading all or most of Braun, Dillon, Melker, Dell etc.

I’m also not confident that our coach, given largely the same players from last year, does not continue to unwaveringly play guys like Melker, Goodrow, this years Haley if not literally Haley, and play an aggressive, fast style of offense that kills our defenders and makes our goalies look like ECHL players.

Really, I’m not actually concerned about our players despite talking about them, I’m concerned about our coach, and the GM who kept him mainly.

Right, and I think that's very fair to be concerned about our coach, as well as our defensive structure and goaltending.

All I'm saying is that it was our top players who got us as far as we did in spite of that defensive structure and goaltending; not our "depth" that never showed up for the playoffs. Keeping those top players and improving our defensive structure and goaltending, if it can be done, will take the team much further than those top players and no-showing depth got us. (To game 6 of the WCF)

 

[STL Shark]

Not sure why you’d expect Jones and this defense to play better under the same coach, and with the same personnel. It’s not like our defense and goaltending were good when Karlsson actually was healthy. So outside of a major philosophy shift from Deboer, I personally expect to see GDTs filled with Jones hate all over again this year.

Also yeah we made the WCF with those injuries, and you really think subbing Donskoi in, or moving someone like Labanc up from the third line didn’t make a difference compared to if our bottom six only had guys like gambrell, melker, radil etc to sub in or move up?

Basically game 6 of the blues series is what our team could look like if injuries happen next year if we don’t have depth players like Labanc, Donskoi etc. That didn’t look like a competitive team to me.

Btw, just to be clear to everyone discussing this with me, I’m not saying I think this team looks like ****, or anything like that, I’m merely saying I don’t see a cup caliber/favorite team right now, and that I’m not confident we have one by the time training camp starts because I don’t think DW actually pulls the trigger on trading all or most of Braun, Dillon, Melker, Dell etc.

I’m also not confident that our coach, given largely the same players from last year, does not continue to unwaveringly play guys like Melker, Goodrow, this years Haley if not literally Haley, and play an aggressive, fast style of offense that kills our defenders and makes our goalies look like ECHL players.

Really, I’m not actually concerned about our players despite talking about them, I’m concerned about our coach, and the GM who kept him mainly.

Except the guy running the defense is not the same at all... Not having Zettler/Spott running the defense alone will make things infinitely better. Add in EK65 not being new to the system and Jones going back to being league average (like he has been his entire career before this one bad season) and Vlasic not having the worst 3 month stretch of his career to start the season and it’s pretty clear to see how it gets better (unless you’re trying really hard to have a pissy fest).

Also don’t really get the Goodrow hate... 4th liner that was positive in relative possession stats, best FO guy on the team, and killed penalties. Not really sure what the hell else anyone can hope for from a 4th liner making less than a million dollars a year? Like it’s asinine. I’ll agree with Haley being awful and Melker being poor quality for his cap hit (and because he just doesn’t do anything good or really bad either just meh), but Goodrow is hardly a problem for the 4th line (especially given he’s learning to play center for like the second year in his life after spending all of juniors and the first part of his career solely on the wing). Show me a player on the Cuda roster capable of doing more in that role. True is a maybe able to get close to what Goodrow already is, but his skating issues make him a HUGE question mark to be able to realistically play in the NHL.

Re: keeping Deboer, it’s just really hard to fire a guy that went SCF, 1st round, 2nd round, WCF and expect anyone else to want to come and take that job. Like if those results get you canned, why would anyone with an actual pedigree want this job? We can bemoan the many issues that are PDB and his coaching/system, but in the real world it’s pretty dumb to think someone gets fired under those circumstances and you find an upgrade (especially when you’re trying to retain a superstar talent like EK65).

 

[Dicdonya]

Right, and I think that's very fair to be concerned about our coach, as well as our defensive structure and goaltending.

All I'm saying is that it was our top players who got us as far as we did in spite of that defensive structure and goaltending; not our "depth" that never showed up for the playoffs. Keeping those top players and improving our defensive structure and goaltending, if it can be done, will take the team much further than those top players and no-showing depth got us. (To game 6 of the WCF)

You might be right, I just currently do not share your outlook on the situation. My confidence in DW and Deboer is rock bottom right now. Hopefully I’m just being overly pessimistic and by season start I’ll be back to a more hopeful outlook on the year.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Yeah I honestly do. Like I said I could see him moving maybe one of those guys, I’ll be surprised if he moves two, and I’ll eat my shoe if it’s 3 or more.

I think DW has a track record of signing, and/or not trading aging and once good players. He also has a track record of being loyal to his players, especially guys like Braun who have been warriors for us in the past, but might be fading a bit.

Edit- in fact I would be less surprised if DW trades Labanc before any of those guys

This assumes an $82M cap, EK's re-signed for $11.5M x 8, Braun traded for a 2nd and Connolly signed for $3.5M x 4
I think this is a plausible scenario if EK is re-signed.

Trade Melker and free up a bit more cap.

FORWARDS (13)
Right wing: Kevin Labanc ($3,500,000) - Brett Connolly ($3,500,000) - Alexander Chmelevski ($778,333) - Melker Karlsson ($2,000,000)
Centre: Logan Couture ($8,000,000) - Tomas Hertl ($5,625,000) - Joe Thornton ($1,500,000) - Dylan Gambrell ($700,000)
Left wing: Timo Meier ($4,750,000) - Evander Kane ($7,000,000) - Marcus Sörensen ($1,500,000) - Barclay Goodrow ($925,000) - Lukas Radil ($700,000)
DEFENSE (7)
Right: Brent Burns ($8,000,000) - Erik Karlsson ($11,500,000) - Tim Heed ($700,000) - Joakim Ryan ($700,000)
Left: Radim Simek ($675,000) - Brenden Dillon ($3,270,000) - Marc-Édouard Vlasic ($7,000,000)
GOALTENDER (2)
Martin Jones ($5,750,000) - Aaron Dell ($1,900,000)

BUYOUTS (1)
Paul Martin ($1,416,667)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 22
Salary Cap: $82,000,000
Cap Hit: $81,390,000
Cap Space: $610,000

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Yeah I honestly do. Like I said I could see him moving maybe one of those guys, I’ll be surprised if he moves two, and I’ll eat my shoe if it’s 3 or more.

I think DW has a track record of signing, and/or not trading aging and once good players. He also has a track record of being loyal to his players, especially guys like Braun who have been warriors for us in the past, but might be fading a bit.

Edit- in fact I would be less surprised if DW trades Labanc before any of those guys

I don't agree on his track record. Off the top of my head, he traded Douglas Murray and Brad Stuart (2nd stint) when they were past their expiration date, and he let Dan Boyle and Patrick Marleau walk in UFA when they were past theirs.

But let's just say for a moment that DW does have a track record of being too loyal to aging players who have been warriors in the past. He's still going to have to make a decision between Pavelski and some combination of Braun/Melker/Dell/Dillon. What makes you think that he will choose to show loyalty to all of the latter 4, rather than Pavelski?

You think Kevin Labanc is more likely to be traded than Melker Karlsson or Aaron Dell? That strikes me as a bit absurd.

You might be right, I just currently do not share your outlook on the situation. My confidence in DW and Deboer is rock bottom right now. Hopefully I’m just being overly pessimistic and by season start I’ll be back to a more hopeful outlook on the year.

Yeah, the fact that you say Kevin Labanc is more likely to be traded than Melker Karlsson or Aaron Dell tells me you're probably just being a bit extra pessimistic at this moment.

Having said that, there is real reason for pessimism if we don't improve our defensive structure.

 

[Gilligans Island]

I don't agree on his track record. Off the top of my head, he traded Douglas Murray and Brad Stuart (2nd stint) when they were past their expiration date, and he let Dan Boyle and Patrick Marleau walk in UFA when they were past theirs.

But let's just say for a moment that DW does have a track record of being too loyal to aging players who have been warriors in the past. He's still going to have to make a decision between Pavelski and some combination of Braun/Melker/Dell/Dillon. What makes you think that he will choose to show loyalty to all of the latter 4, rather than Pavelski?

You think Kevin Labanc is more likely to be traded than Melker Karlsson or Aaron Dell? That strikes me as a bit absurd.

Yeah, the fact that you say Kevin Labanc is more likely to be traded than Melker Karlsson or Aaron Dell tells me you're probably just being a bit extra pessimistic at this moment.

Having said that, there is real reason for pessimism if we don't improve our defensive structure.

I can see scenarios where Labanc is traded before those 2 b/c he has value. Dell has negative value - who wants a crappy backup G for $1.9M? Melker might be a bit tough to move on his own. Might have to package him in w/ Labanc or Braun.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

I can see scenarios where Labanc is traded before those 2 b/c he has value. Dell has negative value - who wants a crappy backup G for $1.9M? Melker might be a bit tough to move on his own. Might have to package him in w/ Labanc or Braun.

Melker has value around the league with one year left at $2M. Dell probably does as well if we’re being honest here. It’s not much for either player but I think at least one GM around the league would have interest in each of them.

@didconya and GI, why are we trading Labanc? What are we getting out of that trade?

 

[Lebanezer]

Melker has value around the league with one year left at $2M. Dell probably does as well if we’re being honest here. It’s not much for either player but I think at least one GM around the league would have interest in each of them.

@didconya and GI, why are we trading Labanc? What are we getting out of that trade?

Braun, Labanc for Ehlers.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

So you really expect DW to go into next season spending $10.8M on Dell, Melker, Dillon, and Braun, while spending $0M on Donskoi, Pavelski, Nyquist, or another addition up front?

Brett Connolly is a guy that I would consider adding to our forward group.

No way. Labanc can move up to play with 9 and 48 but who plays with 28 and 39? Couture gets matched against the other teams top lines. We can’t count on a rookie stepping into that role. DW has to re-sign at least one of those UFAs or go outside of the organization to fill that spot.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Braun, Labanc for Ehlers.

This. Might have to add Merkley. If we re-sign EK, I would.

 

[Dicdonya]

Melker has value around the league with one year left at $2M. Dell probably does as well if we’re being honest here. It’s not much for either player but I think at least one GM around the league would have interest in each of them.

@didconya and GI, why are we trading Labanc? What are we getting out of that trade?

You’re confusing what I said or meant a bit, I’m 100% against trading Labanc for anything short of a clear upgrade to him on a comparable contract.

I said I would be less surprised if DW traded Labanc before any of those vets. I say this because A) he will be easier to move due to age/ability. B) I believe Doug has less attachment/loyalty to him than those other guys other than Dell.

So IMO when looking to save cap, I could see DW trade Labanc before those other guys to save the 3-4 mil(or more depending on how much he thinks he’s worth) signing him while also getting some assets. I DO NOT want him to do that, but it wouldn’t completely shock me.

 

[STL Shark]

No way. Labanc can move up to play with 9 and 48 but who plays with 28 and 39? Couture gets matched against the other teams top lines. We can’t count on a rookie stepping into that role. DW has to re-sign at least one of those UFAs or go outside of the organization to fill that spot.

Yeah, I think you bring back Nyquist/Pavs for that role or go find another winger from outside the org whether by trade or UFA. Think that’s where a Connolly or Ferland could fit in well (or Hayes if he somehow makes it away from Philly and Colorado doesn’t grab him given he’s their top target). The prior two though probably need to score more to play with Couture/Meier. Finding a two way 45-50 point scorer for that line is going to be the big need that DW will need to add without breaking the bank too much.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

No way. Labanc can move up to play with 9 and 48 but who plays with 28 and 39? Couture gets matched against the other teams top lines. We can’t count on a rookie stepping into that role. DW has to re-sign at least one of those UFAs or go outside of the organization to fill that spot.

Right. And you've got to think that the organization doesn't trust Donskoi in that top line role, since he didn't even play true top-6 minutes this season, and that that is why the organization is letting go of Donskoi. They want Labanc in that 2nd line role, and they want an ELC or a bargain bin player in that 3rd line RW role.

The question is, are they going to go after Nyquist or Pavelski to fill that role of top line winger with Meier and Couture? Or are they going to try and fill it externally? One thing to consider if you are filling it externally is that Meier can play RW as well, so you could look at any available LW or RW. Guys like Marner, Panarin, and Ehlers are pipe dreams but you also have guys like

You’re confusing what I said or meant a bit, I’m 100% against trading Labanc for anything short of a clear upgrade to him on a comparable contract.

I said I would be less surprised if DW traded Labanc before any of those vets. I say this because A) he will be easier to move due to age/ability. B) I believe Doug has less attachment/loyalty to him than those other guys other than Dell.

So IMO when looking to save cap, I could see DW trade Labanc before those other guys to save the 3-4 mil(or more depending on how much he thinks he’s worth) signing him while also getting some assets. I DO NOT want him to do that, but it wouldn’t completely shock me.

Yeah, and I'm not confusing it at all. You think DW is more likely to trade Labanc before trading one of Braun/Dillon/Melker/Dell. If the purpose of him trading Labanc in that scenario is saving money, I think that's absurd. When is the last time that DW traded a player of Labanc's caliber - 23 years old, coming off a 56 point season - just to save money?

You know I'm not a DW defender, but he is not dumb enough to trade Kevin Labanc just to save cap and keep Braun/Dillon/Dell/Melker. If he does trade Labanc...

Braun, Labanc for Ehlers.

It's going to be for something like this. A package deal for a legitimate star player that fits our team for now and the future. But the problem with this offer is that it doesn't really fit Winnipeg's needs. They need centers and LHD. I also think the value is tilted in our favor in that one.

Ehlers would be an ideal top line winger for Meier and Couture.

Yeah, I think you bring back Nyquist/Pavs for that role or go find another winger from outside the org whether by trade or UFA. Think that’s where a Connolly or Ferland could fit in well (or Hayes if he somehow makes it away from Philly and Colorado doesn’t grab him given he’s their top target). The prior two though probably need to score more to play with Couture/Meier. Finding a two way 45-50 point scorer for that line is going to be the big need that DW will need to add without breaking the bank too much.

Connolly's 5-on-5 scoring rates are actually bonafide first line caliber. The problem is that he is very weak defensively and isn't much of a play driver. I don't think he's a reliable 1st liner, nor do I think that of Ferland. Hayes is interesting.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Ehlers is getting paid a lot of money to score 37 points.