Speculation: 2019-2020 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Dicdonya]

Honestly, I think someone like Buffalo should take a shot at him. They have a lot of young talent, but no real leadership. Bringing Pavelski in to help develop all those young kids would make a lot of sense, I think. They're also close enough to being decent that I think he might actually be willing to sign there, as opposed to somewhere like Edmonton, who could desperately use him, but I can't see him agreeing to go there.

They do have the cap space for him, and he might fit nicely there, but for some reason I just don’t like it for Buf. EDM can’t afford him, and yeah I doubt he’d sign there.

 

[STL Shark]

Honestly, Pavs to wild makes tons of sense, they seem to love being one of the oldest teams in the league.

That’s my top spot for him if he leaves. They can offer money, need him, and it’s 3 or so hours from his hometown. Feels like a slam dunk to me if he leaves. I’d be fine with him going there. Never had much disdain for the Wild aside from the whole Heatley-Vlasic fiasco a few years ago.

 

[STL Shark]

Also from Friedman, in discussing who might get bought out:


I would assume the presumption is that Nichushkin goes back to Russia and plays in the KHL. Would we have any interest in offering him a spot in case he decides to entertain offers from NHL teams, and doesn't leave for the KHL immediately? (assuming he does actually get bought out, of course)

If he’s going back to Russia, I doubt Dallas would buy him out since they should get some relief for him going to the KHL. If he’s bought out, I have to assume he’s in the NHL next season. I’d love to have his size and skill set, but he’s the most anti-PDB player ever so no shot.

 

[STL Shark]

Who within our system do you folks feel will step up and replicate the performance of Donskoi, a very good middle-6 forward? When is the last time we had a rookie that wasn't a 1st round pick come straight out of our system and perform in the NHL a middle-6 role?



Agreed. I like Chmelevski (and Chekhovich) but I don't think they're going to be ready for middle-6 duty in the NHL next season.

Surely one of Yurtaykin, Chmelevski, Chekhovich, or Gambrell can produce 37 points next season in a 3rd line role. I’m not opposed to bringing Donskoi back, but he’s not a must have or anything. Like I said in my last post, I’d like to think that come the 2020 season Donskoi is passed up on the internal depth chart.

Worst case scenario if you don’t think you have internal depth on 7/1, you give the same $3 mil or so on a one year deal and go get a Thomas Vanek who is basically the same (or slightly better) as Donskoi right now in terms of point production and injuries.

 

[Dicdonya]

Surely one of Yurtaykin, Chmelevski, Chekhovich, or Gambrell can produce 37 points next season in a 3rd line role. I’m not opposed to bringing Donskoi back, but he’s not a must have or anything. Like I said in my last post, I’d like to think that come the 2020 season Donskoi is passed up on the internal depth chart.

Worst case scenario if you don’t think you have internal depth on 7/1, you give the same $3 mil or so on a one year deal and go get a Thomas Vanek who is basically the same (or slightly better) as Donskoi right now in terms of point production and injuries.

I dont think one of those players “surely” can produce 37 points. I think a more appropriate word would be “hopefully”.

Plus if one of them can produce 37pts, will they be doing that while also being solid defensively, and generally good at possession?

I don’t know about that.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

JTR is right to ask who in the system is ready to contribute as a middle 6 forward. Maybe Gambrell. Maybe somebody else is able to make a jump. The thing is, it’s not just Donskoi we need to worry about replacing. Right now we have 4 top 9 forwards signed, Hertl, Kane, Couture, and Sorensen. Very good chance Meier and Labanc signing brings us to 6. Jumbo may be #7, but he may not. If Karlsson signs signs, cap space is going to get really tight.

 

[Lebanezer]

Surely one of Yurtaykin, Chmelevski, Chekhovich, or Gambrell can produce 37 points next season in a 3rd line role. I’m not opposed to bringing Donskoi back, but he’s not a must have or anything. Like I said in my last post, I’d like to think that come the 2020 season Donskoi is passed up on the internal depth chart.

Worst case scenario if you don’t think you have internal depth on 7/1, you give the same $3 mil or so on a one year deal and go get a Thomas Vanek who is basically the same (or slightly better) as Donskoi right now in terms of point production and injuries.

I would include Radil, Suomela and Kellman as possibilities for that role as well. I think if they can’t keep Pavs that Donskoi is retained.

 

[STL Shark]

I would include Radil, Suomela and Kellman as possibilities for that role as well. I think if they can’t keep Pavs that Donskoi is retained.

Feel like it’s almost the other way around. If Pavs is back you need a cheaper forward like Donkey. If he’s gone, I feel like Nyquist is more likely since you need more scoring without Pavs and Donskoi for whatever reason with his skill just can’t produce consistent points.

That said, I’d rather go with a trade/UFA that’s a bigger body and good skater if EK65 is back. If he’s back, our offense is going to be maddeningly centered around the point so need a bigger body to get between the dots for deflections and rebounds and win board battles. Gosh I’m ready for 7/1 lol. So many questions and infinite possibilities for roster construction.

 

[LadyStanley]

If he’s going back to Russia, I doubt Dallas would buy him out since they should get some relief for him going to the KHL. If he’s bought out, I have to assume he’s in the NHL next season. I’d love to have his size and skill set, but he’s the most anti-PDB player ever so no shot.

They'd only get $925k in relief.

 

[Alwalys]

The thought of Perry as a Shark has me nearly heaving. For all those things he’s done to our boys.

Putting the illness aside, is he that way with every other team? Or is that just the rivalry with us? If he’s this way against everyone, we could use that kind of player here.
Though it may never rest easy with me.

Dude I now kind of like Raffi Torres. The sharks wash away sins.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Surely one of Yurtaykin, Chmelevski, Chekhovich, or Gambrell can produce 37 points next season in a 3rd line role. I’m not opposed to bringing Donskoi back, but he’s not a must have or anything. Like I said in my last post, I’d like to think that come the 2020 season Donskoi is passed up on the internal depth chart.

Worst case scenario if you don’t think you have internal depth on 7/1, you give the same $3 mil or so on a one year deal and go get a Thomas Vanek who is basically the same (or slightly better) as Donskoi right now in terms of point production and injuries.

Donskoi takes on soft, offensive 3rd line minutes but he posts very good results in those minutes. 37 points is a dishonest representation of those results when 32 of those points came at 5-on-5, he leads our forwards in 5-on-5 GF% over the past two seasons and is 2nd in xGF%.

If you’re expecting 37 points out of our rookies or somebody like Thomas Vanek, you had better accept that those points are coming with more PP time than Donskoi received and more goals against on the defensive side.

Donskoi’s role can probably be replaced internally or by an external acquisition like Vanek but the team will suffer for doing so. It’s only worth losing Donskoi if they need to do it in order to make a significant upgrade elsewhere and I don’t see where they’re making that upgrade.

 

[Cappuccino]

Honestly, Pavs to wild makes tons of sense, they seem to love being one of the oldest teams in the league.

With the parity in the league it is hard to predict the contenders 3 years in advance, but if there was one team which I don't see making the playoffs (coming out of the Central), let only winning it all.... it would be the Wild. At least the Sharks will be in the conversation. If the captain leaves for such a team, it better be because they pay lots of millions more, or him wanting to go "home".

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Donskoi might be trying to maximize his payday. It would make sense. He’s 27 and established himself in the NHL but hasn’t made the huge money that some players have. This could be his best chance ever to get paid enough money to set himself up for life. Lots of teams are looking for depth wingers with speed who can play up and down the lineup. Lots of players get overpaid on July 1st every year.

 

[Dicdonya]

With the parity in the league it is hard to predict the contenders 3 years in advance, but if there was one team which I don't see making the playoffs (coming out of the Central), let only winning it all.... it would be the Wild. At least the Sharks will be in the conversation. If the captain leaves for such a team, it better be because they pay lots of millions more, or him wanting to go "home".

I think a few people took my post a bit more seriously than I intended. Although I do think Pavs to Min makes some sense I was mainly just taking a dig at them always signing older players and seemingly never developing draft picks.

I do agree that Min is not really a team I expect to win a cup soon, but I don’t care if Pavs signs there, since I’m not one who wants him to sign here. I appreciate everything Pavs has done for us, but he’s toast in my eyes. So unless he signs cheap, like 2x5 or less, I want to say our goodbyes.

On a different topic, am I the only one who does not see the path forward from here? Like honestly, outside of fairy tale trades and signings how is this team going to be a cup contender this year? I keep trying to make a team on capfriendly that looks even close to last years team, but I just can’t.

My instinct is to “retool” but then we have very few picks in the next few drafts, and not a ton of prospects, plus a large chunk of our team cannot really afford to wait around a few years to try again. I know I’m in the minority here, but I really think DW backed himself into a corner here, and has this team setup to mull around in mediocrity for the next few years at the least. God Karlsson save us I guess.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think a few people took my post a bit more seriously than I intended. Although I do think Pavs to Min makes some sense I was mainly just taking a dig at them always signing older players and seemingly never developing draft picks.

I do agree that Min is not really a team I expect to win a cup soon, but I don’t care if Pavs signs there, since I’m not one who wants him to sign here. I appreciate everything Pavs has done for us, but he’s toast in my eyes. So unless he signs cheap, like 2x5 or less, I want to say our goodbyes.

On a different topic, am I the only one who does not see the path forward from here? Like honestly, outside of fairy tale trades and signings how is this team going to be a cup contender this year? I keep trying to make a team on capfriendly that looks even close to last years team, but I just can’t.

My instinct is to “retool” but then we have very few picks in the next few drafts, and not a ton of prospects, plus a large chunk of our team cannot really afford to wait around a few years to try again. I know I’m in the minority here, but I really think DW backed himself into a corner here, and has this team setup to mull around in mediocrity for the next few years at the least. God Karlsson save us I guess.

That is the reason we need to re-sign EK65. Duchene is good but he is not going to impact a game like EK65 can. Panarin is not signing here.

Even if we do make a trade for some impact player, I am thinking we will need to give up even more of our future. It is not the end of the world if we cannot sign EK65 but he is the best chance we have to be a cup contender immediately and for the next few year WITHOUT giving up significant assets. Well more assets than we already have anyway.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

I think a few people took my post a bit more seriously than I intended. Although I do think Pavs to Min makes some sense I was mainly just taking a dig at them always signing older players and seemingly never developing draft picks.

I do agree that Min is not really a team I expect to win a cup soon, but I don’t care if Pavs signs there, since I’m not one who wants him to sign here. I appreciate everything Pavs has done for us, but he’s toast in my eyes. So unless he signs cheap, like 2x5 or less, I want to say our goodbyes.

On a different topic, am I the only one who does not see the path forward from here? Like honestly, outside of fairy tale trades and signings how is this team going to be a cup contender this year? I keep trying to make a team on capfriendly that looks even close to last years team, but I just can’t.

My instinct is to “retool” but then we have very few picks in the next few drafts, and not a ton of prospects, plus a large chunk of our team cannot really afford to wait around a few years to try again. I know I’m in the minority here, but I really think DW backed himself into a corner here, and has this team setup to mull around in mediocrity for the next few years at the least. God Karlsson save us I guess.

This year’s team made it to game 6 of the Conference Finals because they got carried by a few great players who have a history of stepping up in the playoffs, and one of those guys was not even close to 100%. When they finally went down, it was mostly because that guy who was already below 100% went from 70% to 0%. If Karlsson returns, we will still have all of the guys who carried us to game 6 of the WCF.

Last year’s team looked pretty nice on paper, but I don’t think they were ever greater than the sum of their parts outside of that 20 game stretch between December and mid-January and that was mostly due to poor defensive structure and goaltending. Good defensive structure and solid goaltending is a lot more important than the “depth” of last year’s team that existed on paper but was nowhere to be found come playoff time.

 

[Dicdonya]

That is the reason we need to re-sign EK65. Duchene is good but he is not going to impact a game like EK65 can. Panarin is not signing here.

Even if we do make a trade for some impact player, I am thinking we will need to give up even more of our future. It is not the end of the world if we cannot sign EK65 but he is the best chance we have to be a cup contender immediately and for the next few year WITHOUT giving up significant assets. Well more assets than we already have anyway.

Well I certainly agree that signing Karlsson is going to be extremely impactful in many ways, and if we don’t sign him, or someone like Panarin, this team is well....not that great.

Even with him though, and assuming signing him will force Pavs and Donskoi out due to cap reasons, what does this team honestly look like by training camp? Basically the same team we had this year minus an aging 30+ goal scorer and 40pt winger?

If we are gunna trade guys like Braun, Dillon or Melker it’s gotta happen soon yeah? Otherwise we have no cap by July first to pursue any free agents, unless they gamble with tendering Meier and Labanc to leave cap open now, and get them signed later after freeing space up?

I dunno, I lack faith in DW right now, but maybe he has a great plan. All I can really do is sit back and see what happens

 

[matt trick]

I expect we will see movement this week on players.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Well I certainly agree that signing Karlsson is going to be extremely impactful in many ways, and if we don’t sign him, or someone like Panarin, this team is well....not that great.

Even with him though, and assuming signing him will force Pavs and Donskoi out due to cap reasons, what does this team honestly look like by training camp? Basically the same team we had this year minus an aging 30+ goal scorer and 40pt winger?

If we are gunna trade guys like Braun, Dillon or Melker it’s gotta happen soon yeah? Otherwise we have no cap by July first to pursue any free agents, unless they gamble with tendering Meier and Labanc to leave cap open now, and get them signed later after freeing space up?

I dunno, I lack faith in DW right now, but maybe he has a great plan. All I can really do is sit back and see what happens

The thing with EK65 is that he gives us a solid top-3 D along with Burns and Vlasic where we have two #1D's and arguably a #2D or an elite #3D. Simek showed promised as the #4D with Burns but even if he takes a step back, filling a partner there should not be super hard with a #5 or even #6 D who is responsible defensively and compliments Burns.

At the same time, our top-5 F would be pretty set with:

Meier-Hertl-?
Kane-Couture-Labanc

My hope is that we can wait till the UFA craziness dies down and get a complimentary winger for Hertl's line for 'cheap'. The bottom-6 needs to be filled from within the organization. We are basically going to have to bank on some of the Cuda players to step up for the bottom-6 and contribute right away. Spending assets for the bottom-6 is a waste. More so, since we really don't have that many to begin with.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I expect we will see movement this week on players.

I think so too.

If we don't, I would think that DW is still being held hostage waiting for EK65's decision.

 

[Dicdonya]

This year’s team made it to game 6 of the Conference Finals because they got carried by a few great players who have a history of stepping up in the playoffs, and one of those guys was not even close to 100%. When they finally went down, it was mostly because that guy who was already below 100% went from 70% to 0%. If Karlsson returns, we will still have all of the guys who carried us to game 6 of the WCF.

Last year’s team looked pretty nice on paper, but I don’t think they were ever greater than the sum of their parts outside of that 20 game stretch between December and mid-January and that was mostly due to poor defensive structure and goaltending. Good defensive structure and solid goaltending is a lot more important than the “depth” of last year’s team that existed on paper but was nowhere to be found come playoff time.

All I can really say to this is that I agree we had a good team on paper last year, and lo and behold that team made it to the wcf, and depth played a factor considering how many key injuries we had. Outside of our 4th line, I feel like every line played a significant factor in at least a few games.

So this year we will essentially be be the injured team that couldn’t quite make the finals before we even get to the playoffs. It seems like everything is riding on Karlsson not only staying healthy, but being dominant to make up for depth leaving.

I’m just not sold on that idea I guess. Hopefully I’m wrong though, and underestimating a healthy Karlsson, or we get some surprising production from a rookie or two, or DW has some more trade magic up his sleeve.

 

[Lebanezer]

This year’s team made it to game 6 of the Conference Finals because they got carried by a few great players who have a history of stepping up in the playoffs, and one of those guys was not even close to 100%. When they finally went down, it was mostly because that guy who was already below 100% went from 70% to 0%. If Karlsson returns, we will still have all of the guys who carried us to game 6 of the WCF.

Last year’s team looked pretty nice on paper, but I don’t think they were ever greater than the sum of their parts outside of that 20 game stretch between December and mid-January and that was mostly due to poor defensive structure and goaltending. Good defensive structure and solid goaltending is a lot more important than the “depth” of last year’s team that existed on paper but was nowhere to be found come playoff time.

It’s funny, if you were to separate the Sharks by importance, it’s obvious who the most important players are. Burns, Karlsson, Hertl, Couture, Jones and Vlasic. From that group, in the playoffs, with all things considered, most of them performed well to great. The players who are of secondary importance, Thornton, Pavs, Meier, Dillon, Braun, Labanc and Kane, that group did not perform very well. The tertiary group, Ryan, Donskoi, Goodrow, Melker, Heed, Radil, Gambrell, Haley and Sorensen, either get an incomplete, were bad, or in some cases were flat out useless. So yeah, this team was carried by like 6 guys.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

All I can really say to this is that I agree we had a good team on paper last year, and lo and behold that team made it to the wcf, and depth played a factor considering how many key injuries we had. Outside of our 4th line, I feel like every line played a significant factor in at least a few games.

So this year we will essentially be be the injured team that couldn’t quite make the finals before we even get to the playoffs. It seems like everything is riding on Karlsson not only staying healthy, but being dominant to make up for depth leaving.

I’m just not sold on that idea I guess. Hopefully I’m wrong though, and underestimating a healthy Karlsson, or we get some surprising production from a rookie or two, or DW has some more trade magic up his sleeve.

What depth players do you think played a crucial role in our playoff success?

Justin Braun in his role is just about the only depth player that I look at and say “he had a strong playoff performance, having him in that role was a luxury that benefitted our team, and we may not have that luxury next year”. However, Braun was actually a bonafide top-4 defenseman on this team, he just played on the bottom pairing. So even he does not really qualify.

And yes, the team will be relying on Karlsson being healthy and putting up an elite performance. That is what happens when you sink a near $100M commitment into one of the best players in the world.

It’s funny, if you were to separate the Sharks by importance, it’s obvious who the most important players are. Burns, Karlsson, Hertl, Couture, Jones and Vlasic. From that group, in the playoffs, with all things considered, most of them performed well to great. The players who are of secondary importance, Thornton, Pavs, Meier, Dillon, Braun, Labanc and Kane, that group did not perform very well. The tertiary group, Ryan, Donskoi, Goodrow, Melker, Heed, Radil, Gambrell, Haley and Sorensen, either get an incomplete, were bad, or in some cases were flat out useless. So yeah, this team was carried by like 6 guys.

I would say Meier was a part of that first group and I would say that he played very well. I might also bump Jones down to the group of secondary players who also did not perform so well. Otherwise, I pretty much agree on all counts.

 

[Dicdonya]

The thing with EK65 is that he gives us a solid top-3 D along with Burns and Vlasic where we have two #1D's and arguably a #2D or an elite #3D. Simek showed promised as the #4D with Burns but even if he takes a step back, filling a partner there should not be super hard with a #5 or even #6 D who is responsible defensively and compliments Burns.

At the same time, our top-5 F would be pretty set with:

Meier-Hertl-?
Kane-Couture-Labanc

My hope is that we can wait till the UFA craziness dies down and get a complimentary winger for Hertl's line for 'cheap'. The bottom-6 needs to be filled from within the organization. We are basically going to have to bank on some of the Cuda players to step up for the bottom-6 and contribute right away. Spending assets for the bottom-6 is a waste. More so, since we really don't have that many to begin with.

That’s a pretty big question mark you have there though lol. Looking at the ufa’s too, I’m curious which “cheap” winger you think actually fills that role? Or atleast fills a 2nd line role and move Kane back up to the first.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

That’s a pretty big question mark you have there though lol. Looking at the ufa’s too, I’m curious which “cheap” winger you think actually fills that role? Or atleast fills a 2nd line role and move Kane back up to the first.

To me the top-6 is basically:

Meier-Hertl-?
Kane-Couture-?

In my opinion, you figure out getting someone like Dzingel, Nyquist, Zucc, Lee, etc. Someone who is not a liability defensively but can contribute 40+ points a year. Figure out which pairing is better suited for the new acquisiton as well as Labanc and go from there.