SHANNYPLAN
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- Nov 24, 2016
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Salary Cap: 2019-2020 Salary Cap Crunch
- Thread starter MyBudJT
- Start date
few things to comment.
1) it doesn't matter than marleau's salary is only 1.25 million dollars in the final year. many players in the nhl sign front loaded contracts and aren't moved. what matters is that he has a nmc that season and wants to play for a contender. it makes absolutely no sense for him to waive his nmc and move his family yet again to a different city to help out the leafs cap crunch. more probable than not, he stays with the team in his final season.
2) the leafs are most likely going to have to acquire a hefty cap contract back if they trade nikita, so if he is traded, the leafs aren't going to save significant cap anyways, if they save any at all (aav, not total cap)
3 million of that 4.25 is covered in a signing bonus, so when other posters type 1.25 they are referring to his salary
3 million of that 4.25 is covered in a signing bonus, so when other posters type 1.25 they are referring to his salary
Golden_Jet
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- Sep 21, 2005
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3 million of that 4.25 is covered in a signing bonus, so when other posters type 1.25 they are referring to his salary
I think the idea is that He would be traded to say Arizona with a first or something and then retire. He wouldnt actually move his family or two play there, anymore than pronger or dats or hossa.
Not saying it will happen. But the idea from the start has always been theorized that he will play the first 2 years and make about 17 million for 2 years work.
Who knows but that has always been the speculation. Just like it has been for hossa and zetterberg and a bunch more.
Most 40 year old hall of famers won’t want to play for league minimum basically
I think the idea is that He would be traded to say Arizona with a first or something and then retire. He wouldnt actually move his family or two play there, anymore than pronger or dats or hossa.
Not saying it will happen. But the idea from the start has always been theorized that he will play the first 2 years and make about 17 million for 2 years work.
Who knows but that has always been the speculation. Just like it has been for hossa and zetterberg and a bunch more.
Most 40 year old hall of famers won’t want to play for league minimum basically
the three players you mentioned in your first paragraph weren't playing in the nhl when they were moved to arizona and barring a change in decision, zetterberg will follow this path. if he were to not give his consent in a trade, which seems like what he would do (not give consent), marleau would have to suffer a career ending incident in order to be moved and that seems rather unlikely to occur.
another thing to keep in mind is that marleau did not sign a long term, extremely front loaded contract like the players you mentioned did. his deal is only for 3 seasons, 2 remaining. he also stated he wants to win a cup and moved his family from san jose to toronto, which is a huge deal. i don't think he'd entertain the idea of another big move to another place just to help out the leafs when they have a cap crunch.
those players were signed to those contracts when they were playing. no one has ever thought they were going to play at 40’for the league minimum. Zetterberg is still playing. He is younger and better and marleau now and has already stated that he doesn’t see himself going through the grind for the league minimum.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing. I can totally see it both ways. I don’t think it’s just a “leaf fan fantasy”. He took a contract that structures 90 percent of his contract in the first 2 years. There very easily could be a reason for that.
He could also be like jagr who plays til 45. We dont know but it is not unreasonable to think that a smart management company who knew that they would have a cap crunch coming in the exact same year that marleau is payed only 1.25 in real dollars planned it like this for a reason.
those players were signed to those contracts when they were playing. no one has ever thought they were going to play at 40’for the league minimum. Zetterberg is still playing. He is younger and better and marleau now and has already stated that he doesn’t see himself going through the grind for the league minimum.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing. I can totally see it both ways. I don’t think it’s just a “leaf fan fantasy”. He took a contract that structures 90 percent of his contract in the first 2 years. There very easily could be a reason for that.
He could also be like jagr who plays til 45. We dont know but it is not unreasonable to think that a smart management company who knew that they would have a cap crunch coming in the exact same year that marleau is payed only 1.25 in real dollars planned it like this for a reason.
SHANNYPLAN
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- Nov 24, 2016
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i don't think you understood what i said.
of course those players signed those contracts when they were playing. if they weren't playing, they wouldn't have signed them. the thing you aren't understanding is that datysuk, hossa and pronger weren't active in the nhl when their contracts were traded. datysuk informing the red wings he was going back to russia and his cap hit being dealt accordingly, hossa acquired a skin disease and was ruled out of playing for the rest of his contract, and pronger suffered a concussion due to a stick in the eye before he completed his deal. marleau could be inactive like the other three, but it seems rather unlikely.
another thing to bring up is that you mentioned that it was zetterberg, not marleau, that stated "he doesn’t see himself going through the grind for the league minimum". this implies he is going to leave after next season. henrik isn't going to be traded this season as he is willing to play in the league, but he will be traded after next season (if he is traded at all) since he isn't going to play with the red wings beyond 2019. marleau hasn't said anything remotely close to that. zetterberg does not have a nmc and already has a stanley cup, unlike marleau.
there is a misconception that you have fallen victim to when it comes to marleau's deal. while you are correct in that marleau is only making 1.25 million of his 18.5 million deal in base salary in 2019-2020, his contract is set so that he makes more money in signing bonuses than base salary. in his deal, he only makes 4.25 in actual salary and obtains the other 14.5 in signing bonuses. the difference between his signing bonuses and his salary from the seasons 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 is a combined 1.75 million which is not very significant. hossa, datysuk and pronger had their total salary reduced by millions in the backend of their deals. marleau's is less than 2 million. the idea that he is only making 1.25 million of his 18 million in the season beyond this one is a disingenuous.
the biggest factor is his nmc. he dictates where he wants to go. he signed with a team because he wants to win a cup, not play a few seasons here and leave so he can help a team when they need cap relief. if he wanted to play with the team and was willing to accommodate a trade after a couple of seasons, he wouldn't have signed his deal with a nmc included. he would have signed a deal that does not include any restrictions whatsoever.
i don't think you understood what i said.
of course those players signed those contracts when they were playing. if they weren't playing, they wouldn't have signed them. the thing you aren't understanding is that datysuk, hossa and pronger weren't active in the nhl when their contracts were traded. datysuk informing the red wings he was going back to russia and his cap hit being dealt accordingly, hossa acquired a skin disease and was ruled out of playing for the rest of his contract, and pronger suffered a concussion due to a stick in the eye before he completed his deal. marleau could be inactive like the other three, but it seems rather unlikely.
another thing to bring up is that you mentioned that it was zetterberg, not marleau, that stated "he doesn’t see himself going through the grind for the league minimum". this implies he is going to leave after next season. henrik isn't going to be traded this season as he is willing to play in the league, but he will be traded after next season (if he is traded at all) since he isn't going to play with the red wings beyond 2019. marleau hasn't said anything remotely close to that. zetterberg does not have a nmc and already has a stanley cup, unlike marleau.
there is a misconception that you have fallen victim to when it comes to marleau's deal. while you are correct in that marleau is only making 1.25 million of his 18.5 million deal in base salary in 2019-2020, his contract is set so that he makes more money in signing bonuses than base salary. in his deal, he only makes 4.25 in actual salary and obtains the other 14.5 in signing bonuses. the difference between his signing bonuses and his salary from the seasons 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 is a combined 1.75 million which is not very significant. hossa, datysuk and pronger had their total salary reduced by millions in the backend of their deals. marleau's is less than 2 million. the idea that he is only making 1.25 million of his 18 million in the season beyond this one is a disingenuous.
the biggest factor is his nmc. he dictates where he wants to go. he signed with a team because he wants to win a cup, not play a few seasons here and leave so he can help a team when they need cap relief. if he wanted to play with the team and was willing to accommodate a trade after a couple of seasons, he wouldn't have signed his deal with a nmc included. he would have signed a deal that does not include any restrictions whatsoever.
Kurisu
mad scientist
Peiskos
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- Jan 4, 2018
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There seems to be some kind of glitch right now where it takes a long time to post and when it does it posts it twice, its happened to me today also.
They signed these contracts years ago. The prevailing theory is that they had NO intention of actually playing through these years. They didn’t even know what the league minimum would be. It’s very possible that the league minimum will be the yearly salary of some of those contracts.
We can’t prove it. But surprise! Just like everyone said years ago, all these players are going on LTIR, because they can’t just retire anymore. If you honestly think hossa s long standing allergy got dramatically worse from the end of the season where he was making millions exactly when his salary dropped. When he wasn’t even wearing eauipment..... ok.
Marleau at 37 decided to go to the leafs. He gets paid the majority of his contract now. There is absolutely nothing stopping him
From collecting his bonus on July 1. He gets almost all of his money before the start of the year of 2019-2010. That is a fact. He could play for 2 years and then stop. As long as he files the paperwork after July 1
Then he got paid what 17 million for 2 years? Then agreeing to be traded to arizona and retiring the next day. He absolutely could do that. That could be the plan. It may be. It may not be. Even if it is the “plan” there is nothing stopping him from changing his mind.
This absolutely nuts to think that Marleau to willing to traded to a bottom feeder just because he got most of his money up front. He wants to play on a Cup winner and Leafs give him the best shot. Anyone that thinks if Marleau will just "quit" just doesn't know how 99 % of how pro athletes think.
By this logic, if players don't want to play the season after they receive bonus money, I guess Leaf fans should be concerned about Tavares not showing up a training cap. His contract is structured so he receives 10m during the summer and just 1m during the course of the season.
" The prevailing theory is that they had NO intention of actually playing through these years" Isn't that the thought of some Leafs fans who just feel the need get 6.25m in cap space in 2019/20? None of these fans really considered what Marleau probably wants.
By this logic, if players don't want to play the season after they receive bonus money, I guess Leaf fans should be concerned about Tavares not showing up a training cap. His contract is structured so he receives 10m during the summer and just 1m during the course of the season.
" The prevailing theory is that they had NO intention of actually playing through these years" Isn't that the thought of some Leafs fans who just feel the need get 6.25m in cap space in 2019/20? None of these fans really considered what Marleau probably wants.
pronger had a career-ending concussion and hossa's scenario was legit. it was proven by doctors that he developed a skin disorder. it was a coincidence that it happened when his salary dropped by 3 million dollars from 2016-2017 to 2017- 2018 regardless of what you think. its sheer ignorance for you to think they only went on LTIR because "they can't just retire anymore". along with their legit injuries, pronger had 3 more seasons of a salary that would be 4 million and above, so if he was deemed healthy by doctors, he would have played in the next 3 seasons. in datysuk's case, he was entering a season where he was about to get paid 5.5 million dollars but left the team to go back home. he left significant amount of money on the deal and didn't have a contract that was circumventing the cap.
the guys you mentioned wanted to get paid, while marleau wants to win a cup. that's the difference you are missing. the contracts that datysuk, hossa and pronger signed, among many others, were deals that payed those players a lot of salary relative to their career earnings. marleau's current contract is insignificant to his career earnings because he had made a lot more money before 2017 than he will beyond 2017.
saying there is nothing stopping him from changing his mind is abusrd. first, marleau has a nmc and wants to win a cup. if he was willing to facilitate a trade out of toronto, he wouldn't have a nmc in the final season of his deal. secondly, he moved his whole family from san jose to toronto and they have to start new lives. you don't think he takes their feelings into consideration? you think he will just move to to another city where his family has to start over yet again because he wants to help out the leafs when they need cap space? that's quite ridiculous.
The point people are making is that marleau was offered 1 year by she. The leafs gave him 3. No one is actually suggesting he goes and plays for Arizona in his last year.
People are suggesting he gets traded and then retires. He never goes there. He never plays there. The leafs get cap space. The yotes get a 6.25 million buffer from the floor and a sweetener.
Again I’m not saying this will happen. But it has been widely speculated. Just like hossa etc were widely speculated to not fulfil their contracts. No one really knows what will happen in year 3 until it does. The reasoning is.
1.) when he was signed everyone already knew what the big 3 were and were speculating they couldn’t be kept together as is. Before a 6.25 million 40 year old.
2.). Lou specifically said that the ELCs of the. 3 allowed this move and we had the flexibility. We don’t in year 3.
3.) despite having a 6.25 million 4o year old and the big 3. We STILL signed an 11 million dollar forward.
with this. Dubas still says we have no problem with signing them all and he managed to convince JT that he could keep
Them.
I’m not saying that this 100 percent is the way it will go down. I keep him in all my projections. But there are reasons to believe this is the plan.
Yes prongers is real. Sure. I was making the point that tons of contracts get moved for cap space. It happens. It was going to happen. Their are circumvention rules for a reason. They made cap penalties etc specifically due to the fact that people were signing contracts that they had no intention of playing on. To act like players and teams sign contracts and have every intention of fulfilling them is nuts.
As for Hossa. Good lord. It was a coincidence? He played the FULL season. He never left halfway through. He was never ruled out of a single game. If you think his condition just got too dangerous in the offseason when he wasn’t wearing equipment? Come on......... why wasn’t it to dangerous in April? When specifically did it become to dangerous? When he was not skating?
Regardless. This is about marleau. rignt now. He has 2 years left on his deal. He has a NMC. It is also structured so that he makes 17 million before the start of the third year. Some have speculated that he wasn’t going to fulfil the contract.
As far as you know he has NO intention of playing the third year. He could have picked up and moved his family for 2 years instead of 3.
1.) lou specifically said they had a unique opportunity to add a player of this caliber while the kids were on a elc. They knew they would have to sign them. They extended the contract beyond the ELC.
2.) they knew they had marleau and the ELC and they still signed Tavares. They managed to convince him that they could afford to keep the core
They have a plan. They have repeatedly said they are comfortable with the cap and they keep adding players, when it seems like they can’t with marleau in it. He seems like the most logical out. They may have a different plan. We don’t know.
Yes prongers is real. Sure. I was making the point that tons of contracts get moved for cap space. It happens. It was going to happen. Their are circumvention rules for a reason. They made cap penalties etc specifically due to the fact that people were signing contracts that they had no intention of playing on. To act like players and teams sign contracts and have every intention of fulfilling them is nuts.
As for Hossa. Good lord. It was a coincidence? He played the FULL season. He never left halfway through. He was never ruled out of a single game. If you think his condition just got too dangerous in the offseason when he wasn’t wearing equipment? Come on......... why wasn’t it to dangerous in April? When specifically did it become to dangerous? When he was not skating?
Regardless. This is about marleau. rignt now. He has 2 years left on his deal. He has a NMC. It is also structured so that he makes 17 million before the start of the third year. Some have speculated that he wasn’t going to fulfil the contract.
As far as you know he has NO intention of playing the third year. He could have picked up and moved his family for 2 years instead of 3.
1.) lou specifically said they had a unique opportunity to add a player of this caliber while the kids were on a elc. They knew they would have to sign them. They extended the contract beyond the ELC.
2.) they knew they had marleau and the ELC and they still signed Tavares. They managed to convince him that they could afford to keep the core
They have a plan. They have repeatedly said they are comfortable with the cap and they keep adding players, when it seems like they can’t with marleau in it. He seems like the most logical out. They may have a different plan. We don’t know.
Yes prongers is real. Sure. I was making the point that tons of contracts get moved for cap space. It happens. It was going to happen. Their are circumvention rules for a reason. They made cap penalties etc specifically due to the fact that people were signing contracts that they had no intention of playing on. To act like players and teams sign contracts and have every intention of fulfilling them is nuts.
As for Hossa. Good lord. It was a coincidence? He played the FULL season. He never left halfway through. He was never ruled out of a single game. If you think his condition just got too dangerous in the offseason when he wasn’t wearing equipment? Come on......... why wasn’t it to dangerous in April? When specifically did it become to dangerous? When he was not skating?
Regardless. This is about marleau. rignt now. He has 2 years left on his deal. He has a NMC. It is also structured so that he makes 17 million before the start of the third year. Some have speculated that he wasn’t going to fulfil the contract.
As far as you know he has NO intention of playing the third year. He could have picked up and moved his family for 2 years instead of 3.
1.) lou specifically said they had a unique opportunity to add a player of this caliber while the kids were on a elc. They knew they would have to sign them. They extended the contract beyond the ELC.
2.) they knew they had marleau and the ELC and they still signed Tavares. They managed to convince him that they could afford to keep the core
They have a plan. They have repeatedly said they are comfortable with the cap and they keep adding players, when it seems like they can’t with marleau in it. He seems like the most logical out. They may have a different plan. We don’t know.
