Salary Cap: 2019-2020 Salary Cap Crunch

[4thline]

I think you're falling on the naive side of most fans if you think there are no undeclared binding agreements between both parties.

So what you're asserting is not that there is a handshake, but that Marleau has preemptively waived his NMC for the 2019-2020 season in a manner that is binding and legal under the CBA, and that the NMC for that formally exists solely for posterity?

 

[White Shadow]

So what you're asserting is not that there is a handshake, but that Marleau has preemptively and bindingly (and legally under the CBA) waived his NMC for the 2019-2020 season, and that it formally exists solely for posterity?

That's really close...handshake was a bad term by me...my apologies.

I don't see why there couldn't be some type of hybrid between a NMC and a NTC. The actual terms of the contract would be the club holds the option to trade but not demote.

I also don't think these terms need to be released to the public...much like the list of teams the player would waive for isn't always released.

 

[Animal]

Marleau won't retire before his contract is up, he still skates like the wind

 

[IBeL34f]

Leaf fanatics....what a joke.

If he was planing to play the last year his contract would have been structured different. He signed this contract after age 35 and unlike players who sign similar contacts it is used to make them buyout proof with most of the money in bonus money which can not be bought out.

All contracts signed when a player is 35 or older are buy out proof as they are not allowed to do so under the CBA.

I logically can not see him play the last year for 1.25 after getting 17.50 million the two years before. Calling people who do not share your opinion a name explains all I need to know about you.

Each year of his contract contains a heavy signing bonus, with a small actual salary of $1.5M or $1.25M - You're making it seem like there's some huge drop-off in actual salary dollars between years 1/2 and 3, whereas the only decline is in the total sum of signing bonus + salary, which falls in line with his expected decline in on-ice value.

I don't think a trade scenario is anywhere near as clear-cut as you're making it out to be, at least not based on the actual numbers presented in his contract.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

1. Who said anything about retirement? Certainly not me.
2. No one with half a brain thinks his cap changes in year 3. That's not how the cap works. I think maybe you believe all Leaf fans are slightly stupid.

The Leafs added a third year to his contract when everyone else was offering 2 years. The upside of this for Marleau was the extra 5 - 6 million, a not insignificant amount. The bonus for the Leafs was that it lowered the cap hit across the board.

Since you can't quite visualize how it works, I will give you an example.

Lou: We can offer you $19M over 3 years
Marleau: Great! That's $6M more than anyone else
Lou: The catch is we only want you for 2 years so July 1 entering year 3 you will be traded
Marleau: Can i have some protection at least?
Lou: Sure. We'll give you a NMC for the purposes of the AHL but we will most likely be trading you to a team like Arizona which can barely reach the cap floor. You good?
Marleau: I'm good

Lou to Pridham: Set this guy up with a front loaded contract. I want to make him extremely valuable to a cash poor franchise in the summer of 2019.
Pridham: Done!

 

[Boutette]

It does exactly that. Marleau cannot be traded without giving his approval. His contract is buyout proof, and if they try to bully him he can just retire and lock in the cap hit. He holds the cards, the Leafs gave him the cards.

Or maybe he signed with the Leafs because they were the team that offered him the most money. And he's going to get the money whether he's on the Leafs or not in 2019-2020. And sure, he could retire and lock in the cap hit for the Leafs. But that also guarantees he isn't going to be playing for anyone that year, including, say, a contender after the trade deadline, so forget that Stanley Cup run in 2019-2020. Not sure how that's a win for Marleau, unless you consider being childishly spiteful winning, but whatever. Oh, by the way, SJ is quite likely to have plenty of capspace next year, so they could easily afford Marleau's cap, just as they could easily afford a guy with two bad knees like Thorton this coming year, whose cap is only 1.5m less (and they still have almost $5 mil free this year so its not like they are a team that feels the need to max it out every year).

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

1. Who said anything about retirement? Certainly not me.
2. No one with half a brain thinks his cap changes in year 3. That's not how the cap works. I think maybe you believe all Leaf fans are slightly stupid.

The Leafs added a third year to his contract when everyone else was offering 2 years. The upside of this for Marleau was the extra 5 - 6 million, a not insignificant amount. The bonus for the Leafs was that it lowered the cap hit across the board.

Since you can't quite visualize how it works, I will give you an example.

Lou: We can offer you $19M over 3 years
Marleau: Great! That's $6M more than anyone else
Lou: The catch is we only want you for 2 years so July 1 entering year 3 you will be traded
Marleau: Can i have some protection at least?
Lou: Sure. We'll give you a NMC for the purposes of the AHL but we will most likely be trading you to a team like Arizona which can barely reach the cap floor. You good?
Marleau: I'm good

Lou to Pridham: Set this guy up with a front loaded contract. I want to make him extremely valuable to a cash poor franchise in the summer of 2019.
Pridham: Done!

 

[Mess]

Marleau won't retire before his contract is up, he still skates like the wind

In fact its more likely that Marleau signs another Leaf contract once this one expires, depending on his play the next 2 years.

The contract would be a year at a time and it would be low in terms of $1 mil base + bonuses.

People thinking Marleau is retiring after this year and taking his last signing bonus in year 3 and then sticking it to the Leafs are living in an alternate reality. IMHO

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

A full NMC says it doesn't.

I agree with you. And when I suggested it was Leaf FANatics that just wanted to twist the contract to get more cap space, I was called "rude". Not being rude, but as you have suggested in your posts, you have to look at the contract from Marleau's view.

 

[diceman934]

Each year of his contract contains a heavy signing bonus, with a small actual salary of $1.5M or $1.25M - You're making it seem like there's some huge drop-off in actual salary dollars between years 1/2 and 3, whereas the only decline is in the total sum of signing bonus + salary, which falls in line with his expected decline in on-ice value.

I don't think a trade scenario is anywhere near as clear-cut as you're making it out to be, at least not based on the actual numbers presented in his contract.

Please post anywhere where were I said anything of the sort. I clearly stated that after July 1 of 2019 he will only be owed 1.25m and I can not see him playing the season for that money nor do I think the Leafs expect him to. Nothing more then that. Trading his contract if he retires would be easy His cap hit is 6.25 m but his salary reminding is 1.25 saving a team 5 m if they need to get to the floor. Those are the numbers.

 

[diceman934]

In fact its more likely that Marleau signs another Leaf contract once this one expires, depending on his play the next 2 years.

The contract would be a year at a time and it would be low in terms of $1 mil base + bonuses.

People thinking Marleau is retiring after this year and taking his last signing bonus in year 3 and then sticking it to the Leafs are living in an alternate reality. IMHO

We will not be resigning Marleau at all.

 

[4thline]

I don't see why there couldn't be some type of hybrid between a NMC and a NTC. The actual terms of the contract would be the club holds the option to trade but not demote.

I also don't think these terms need to be released to the public...much like the list of teams the player would waive for isn't always released.

There is, they are listed as M-NTC, NMC (modified no trade as part of an NMC) and more often than not their existence is known, often the full details

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps


I'm not saying that it is impossible, just not probable enough to accept as anything more than a hope

 

[4thline]

@Boutette SJ is a very real possibility. As are other contenders. But if he's still a viable top 6 player (maybe 1-2 mill over paid) he's not waiving to go to the desert to play out his career like some mule waiting to be shot just because it makes fan lineups easier and younger. I'm not saying it's a "win" for Marleau to retire, just that (as I literally said) he holds all the cards. If he can contribute and wants to go for the cup, he's playing for a team that he thinks gives him a chance, the Leafs have no mechanism to force him into anything

 

[White Shadow]

There is, they are listed as M-NTC, NMC (modified no trade as part of an NMC) and more often than not their existence is known, often the full details

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps


I'm not saying that it is impossible, just not probable enough to accept as anything more than a hope

The existence of the clause is typically known - the content of the details no. That is sometimes released by the club or the agent as a negotiation tactic during trade talks.

So now that you agree it's possible, the nature of his contract structure is what makes it quite probable. A player with a cap hit of $6.25M but who is only owed $1.25M in actual salary is very attractive to certain clubs.

 

[Buds17]

The existence of the clause is typically known - the content of the details no. That is sometimes released by the club or the agent as a negotiation tactic during trade talks.

So now that you agree it's possible, the nature of his contract structure is what makes it quite probable. A player with a cap hit of $6.25M but who is only owed $1.25M in actual salary is very attractive to certain clubs.

I agree the high cap hit/low salary for one season is attractive to certain clubs, but are those clubs attractive to the player? The contract structure was good for the player and good for the team in ways, but if the team is as good or better than when he initially signed, and the player is still healthy and productive - even if overpaid, as is the nature of free agency at times - I can't see why either side would want a split. I fully get it if things go awry (team or player falls off dramatically), I just can't envision either scenario at the moment.

 

[White Shadow]

I agree the high cap hit/low salary for one season is attractive to certain clubs, but are those clubs attractive to the player? The contract structure was good for the player and good for the team in ways, but if the team is as good or better than when he initially signed, and the player is still healthy and productive - even if overpaid, as is the nature of free agency at times - I can't see why either side would want a split. I fully get it if things go awry (team or player falls off dramatically), I just can't envision either scenario at the moment.

Unless you see, like I do, that the Leafs hold the option of trading, not the player.

 

[Critical13]

Marleau isn’t the problem. I think we need to move Zaitsev.

 

[White Shadow]

Marleau isn’t the problem. I think we need to move Zaitsev.

If there's one guy I expect a complete bounce back from, it's Zaits

 

[Kurisu]

If there's one guy I expect a complete bounce back from, it's Zaits

for our sakes he better.

 

[BigBlu]

Marleau isn’t the problem. I think we need to move Zaitsev.

Soooooo wrong. We need young Dmen. Not old wingers making even more. Even so, it's the bizarre Marleau contract that is now making you move Z. That Marleau 3rd year was gratuitous, and a major monkey wrench in the plan.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Couldn't find an existing thread, so lets discuss how we'll fit Matthews / Marner etc in 2019/2020.

I for one don't think we'll be unloading Marleau, so thats going to add an extra level of difficulties.... However the cap SHOULD go up again...

A scenerio I wouldn't mind right now:

2019/2020

Trade: Brown/Levio/Kapanen/Carrick for picks/futures

Lets say Salary Cap goes up to 82M

Grundstrom (925K) - Tavares (11M) - Marner (7M)
Marleau (6.25M) - Matthews (10M) - Nylander (6.5M)
Johnsson (1.425M) - Kadri (4.5M) - Hyman (2.25M)
Marchment (767.5K) - Lindholm (1.2M) - Korshkov (925K)
Gauthier (675K)

Gardiner (6.5M) - Rielly (5M)
Dermott (0.863K) - Zaitsev (4.5M)
Borgman (1M) - Liljegren (895K)
Hainsey (1M)
Ozhiganov (1.2M)

Andersen (5M)
Sparks (750K)

Buyouts: 1.2M
LTIR: Horton (

TOTAL SALARY == 81M == 1M in capspace.

Marleau's contract is an issue big time and the moves that may be forced to make his cap hit work.

1)Kapanen and Johnnson are going to be less of a cap hit than Marleau and no need to give up on youth right now for 1 more year of 40 yr old Marleau. Kappy might sign for 2.5 million, Johnnson 3-3.5 million.
2)Matthews will be signed for 11 million and no less imo.
3)Getting Marner and Nylander for 13.5 is not going to be simple.
4) Being forced to trade Connor Brown who can slot in on any line and PP and PK and fill a role. A swiss army knife type of player with excellent compete level at all times.

Add up that extra money and possibly Nylander is forced out, especially if Dermott has an excellent 2 years and he will command 5 million plus. What if Johnnson has a 5o point season?

Gardiner can not be resigned @ 6.5. Dermott can replace him.

 

[rent free]

Soooooo wrong. We need young Dmen. Not old wingers making even more. Even so, it's the bizarre Marleau contract that is now making you move Z. That Marleau 3rd year was gratuitous, and a major monkey wrench in the plan.

zaitsev is 26. he isn't young. another thing, the third year was given because he wanted it and the leafs were the only team that were willing to give it to him, so no it wasn't gratuitous

 

[rent free]

Soooooo wrong. We need young Dmen. Not old wingers making even more. Even so, it's the bizarre Marleau contract that is now making you move Z. That Marleau 3rd year was gratuitous, and a major monkey wrench in the plan.

zaitsev is 26. he isn't young. another thing, the third year was given because he wanted it and the leafs were the only team that were willing to give it to him, so no it wasn't gratuitous

 

[Nylander88]

Things to do:
- I like Marleau, but his finally year his contract is very tradeable with only 1.25 million owing in real salary. So to keep a 40 year old with 1 year left over some talented youth makes little to no sense.
- Trade Gardiner or use him as an "own rental" like we did with JVR/Bozak/Komarov and let him walk next year in free agency. Rielly and Dermott can handle the left side of the top 2 pairings
- If Zaitsev has a bad start, we need to make the best effort possible to move on from him and his 4.5 million salary
- Let Hainsey walk and save another 3 million

This is a total of 13.25 million saved on the cap by trading Marleau to a team that needs the hit and simply letting Gards and Hainsey walk. Or 17.75 million if we unload Zaits. That gives us lots of play with. Very excited for where this team is going

 

[Nylander88]

Things to do:
- I like Marleau, but his finally year his contract is very tradeable with only 1.25 million owing in real salary. So to keep a 40 year old with 1 year left over some talented youth makes little to no sense.
- Trade Gardiner or use him as an "own rental" like we did with JVR/Bozak/Komarov and let him walk next year in free agency. Rielly and Dermott can handle the left side of the top 2 pairings
- If Zaitsev has a bad start, we need to make the best effort possible to move on from him and his 4.5 million salary
- Let Hainsey walk and save another 3 million

This is a total of 13.25 million saved on the cap by trading Marleau to a team that needs the hit and simply letting Gards and Hainsey walk. Or 17.75 million if we unload Zaits. That gives us lots of play with. Very excited for where this team is going