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2019/20 Roster Thread XXIX | Page 6 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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2019/20 Roster Thread XXIX

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They’d have to have a truly awful February to be out of playoff contention.
 
Dumba is going for $6X4. Ghost is at $4.5X4. If that deal could work, it’s worth considering. Braun is off of the books at the end of this season so the difference would be covered going forward. They both have had injuries that they need to get by but when they do, both clubs could be satisfied with the trade.
 
Tripod said:
Yeah I am tapping out. He clearly has the opinion that coaches/mgt can do no wrong.

Odd since this we just saw Stewart on this roster for 3 months.

Oh...and waived NAK and kept Stewart.

I guess they know best and are always right.
Click to expand...

Oh, you mean me? The guy who bashed Fletch on numerous moves like Hayes contract, Sanheims, and the draft...so clearly this is BS


It's common knowledge that coaching and GM'ing isn't an exact or perfect science,but I'm smart enough to know that not all the info can be learned off a stats page or some beat writers

Not all that long ago players weren't even allowed to be drafted until they were 19,and didn't see the NHL till 21.

But sure, the kid w/ 40 pro games under his belt is clearly a huge mistake by the coaching staff

Seasoning rookies, unless they were exceptional, has garnered tons of amazing results. Rushing players has proven to be a mistake also

So when a GM has flat out said this about Frost...to say he's completely wrong is nothing more a 1 sided opinion....especially when you have zero knowledge of the things and convos the coach and player have discussed
 
Much like tigers, NHL coaches and GMs simply cannot change their stripes. Even though they know (I hope) that the game has changed, veteran coaches and managers still gravitate to the “safe” style of player and still value size and grit too much yet speed and skill not enough.

It’s why I was really hoping that the Flyers were going to buck the trend and hire a smart, young GM who grasps how today’s game is played and who would have not been afraid to bring in a dynamic coach who understood the same.

Instead we got Dave Scott leaning on dinosaurs like Paul Holmgren and Bob Clarke for advice. This inevitably leads to the “safe” experienced GM and the “safe” veteran coach.

I have no doubt that Chuck Fletcher can build a solid team, a team that will finish with around 100-105 points and maybe win a playoff round now and then. However, I have little faith that he’s the guy who can build a perennial contender that can win a Stanley Cup.

I hope he proves me wrong, but I’m not holding my breath.
 
BiggE said:
Much like tigers, NHL coaches and GMs simply cannot change their stripes. Even though they know (I hope) that the game has changed, veteran coaches and managers still gravitate to the “safe” style of player and still value size and grit too much yet speed and skill not enough.

It’s why I was really hoping that the Flyers were going to buck the trend and hire a smart, young GM who grasps how today’s game is played and who would have not been afraid to bring in a dynamic coach who understood the same.

Instead we got Dave Scott leaning on dinosaurs like Paul Holmgren and Bob Clarke for advice. This inevitably leads to the “safe” experienced GM and the “safe” veteran coach.

I have no doubt that Chuck Fletcher can build a solid team, a team that will finish with around 100-105 points and maybe win a playoff round now and then. However, I have little faith that he’s the guy who can build a perennial contender that can win a Stanley Cup.

I hope he proves me wrong, but I’m not holding my breath.
Click to expand...


I understand your overall sentiment here...but which "young GM and coaches" have won the SC recently?
 
bobbythebrain said:
Oh, you mean me? The guy who bashed Fletch on numerous moves like Hayes contract, Sanheims, and the draft...so clearly this is BS


It's common knowledge that coaching and GM'ing isn't an exact or perfect science,but I'm smart enough to know that not all the info can be learned off a stats page or some beat writers

Not all that long ago players weren't even allowed to be drafted until they were 19,and didn't see the NHL till 21.

But sure, the kid w/ 40 pro games under his belt is clearly a huge mistake by the coaching staff

Seasoning rookies, unless they were exceptional, has garnered tons of amazing results. Rushing players has proven to be a mistake also

So when a GM has flat out said this about Frost...to say he's completely wrong is nothing more a 1 sided opinion....especially when you have zero knowledge of the things and convos the coach and player have discussed
Click to expand...
So again...you believe Fletch and his opinion....meanwhile Bunnaman is ready? Rubstov? Stewart deserved his PTO and then contract, and then 3 months on the roster?

We will just agree to disagree on this. I was/am 100% fine with Frost being a 30ish point C this year as our 3rd best center and don't think playing in the AHL under Gordon is going to change him much. He will develop regardless and Gordon and his magic dust won't matter one bit.
 
Tripod said:
And that's all good.

At least we have established that 4 points in 5 games int he AHL is hot....and 4 points in 9 games in the NHL is "not effective".

;)
Click to expand...
Yes, 4 points in your last 5 AHL games ( a pt in 4 of last 5) is hot & will probably help get you consideration for an injury call-up, especially if you play the same position as the guy who got injured.

4 points in your last 9 NHL games isn’t hot, & isn’t going to protect you from a demotion if they don’t trust your play away from the puck, you went pointless in 3 of your last 4, & have only 7 pts in 18 games overall in an important C role.

And of course points aren’t the only basis for call-ups & demotions.
 
bobbythebrain said:
I understand your overall sentiment here...but which "young GM and coaches" have won the SC recently?
Click to expand...
I hear you, I guess I just look at Fletcher’s track record and I see a guy who built solid teams but could never make the moves necessary to get them to the next level. I had more faith in AV, but his hiring of his pal Michel is a pretty big mark against him in my book.

I know they aren’t easy to find, but I want a GM like Keith Allen. A guy who knows when to make the moves that turn still good, but aging players into younger and very quickly better players.

I want an innovative coach. A Fred Shero who was not afraid to set a trend by hiring the NHL’s first assistant coach or to incorporate aspects of Russian hockey into his coaching. Or a Pat Quinn who, when seeing that the strength of his team was the skill and depth of their forwards, was not afraid to radically change his team’s style to an all out attack and guide them to a 35 game unbeaten streak, the best record in the NHL and, if not for some atrocious officiating, likely a Stanley Cup.

That’s what I want. Yeah, I’m asking a lot, but I don’t care. From 1972-1989 the Flyers were year in, year out among the best in the league. I want that again.
 
I don't think GMs look at points, since there's a big stochastic factor there, especially in the short-run.
It's more how a player is playing, and HOW THEY FIT the current team.
Farabee is 19, Frost is 20, if the Flyers were adverse to playing youth, how come Farabee ain't in LHV?

It's more a matter of finding the right fit in the top 9 for Frost, if Lindblom was healthy, it might be easier to play Frost.
Farabee is more physical, has a higher IQ and is a winger, so he's an easier fit in multiple roles, including the PK.

With the other LHV players, they are older, and clearly physically ready for the NHL, Vorobyev has NHL size for example, it's the other aspects of his game that held him back.

They're grooming Frost for a top 9 and eventually top 6 role, he's not going to see a minute on the 4th line.
Whereas NAK, Rubtsov, Bunnaman have the fastest path to NHL PT through the 4th line.
Kase is a "tweener," he has Leier type forechecking skills (speed and stick but no body) but a much better offensive skill package.
 
BiggE said:
I hear you, I guess I just look at Fletcher’s track record and I see a guy who built solid teams but could never make the moves necessary to get them to the next level. I had more faith in AV, but his hiring of his pal Michel is a pretty big mark against him in my book.

I know they aren’t easy to find, but I want a GM like Keith Allen. A guy who knows when to make the moves that turn still good, but aging players into younger and very quickly better players.

I want an innovative coach. A Fred Shero who was not afraid to set a trend by hiring the NHL’s first assistant coach or to incorporate aspects of Russian hockey into his coaching. Or a Pat Quinn who, when seeing that the strength of his team was the skill and depth of their forwards, was not afraid to radically change his team’s style to an all out attack and guide them to a 35 game unbeaten streak, the best record in the NHL and, if not for some atrocious officiating, likely a Stanley Cup.

That’s what I want. Yeah, I’m asking a lot, but I don’t care. From 1972-1989 the Flyers were year in, year out among the best in the league. I want that again.
Click to expand...


And they did that by being one of the teams pushing the envelope.

When's the last time we were on the cutting edge of the sport?
 
Tripod said:
So again...you believe Fletch and his opinion....meanwhile Bunnaman is ready? Rubstov? Stewart deserved his PTO and then contract, and then 3 months on the roster?

We will just agree to disagree on this. I was/am 100% fine with Frost being a 30ish point C this year as our 3rd best center and don't think playing in the AHL under Gordon is going to change him much. He will develop regardless and Gordon and his magic dust won't matter one bit.
Click to expand...


NP. But I will respectfully point out I think you have the wrong interpretation of the situation

Guys like Voro, Rubby and Bunny aren't being called up b/c he thinks they are more ready. The fact Frost was already up should tell you that

They are called up b/c Fletch has more invested in Frost

He already confirmed that when he said he wants Frost down their dominating and won't put team need ahead of development

As for Gordon, yet again, during these demotions, many times they aren't sent down to learn how to play or grap systems. They are sent down to work on specified things like battles, getting on the right side of a puck and reading an individual defensive play...so despite Gordons terrible system...these things still happen in a 60min game
 
Beef Invictus said:
And they did that by being one of the teams pushing the envelope.

When's the last time we were on the cutting edge of the sport?
Click to expand...
Honestly, I think the last truly cutting edge move they made was hiring Keenan in 84.

Since 89:
29 seasons not including the current one.
Missed the playoffs 10 times and were knocked out in the first round 9 other times.

So only 10 years with at least one series victory since 89. Only 6 trips to the conference final and 2 trips to the Stanley Cup finals.

Pretty much the textbook definition of average.

Post lockout it’s even worse. Only 4 times since 2004 have they won at least one round, none since 2012. Two trips to the conference final and 1 to the final, but neither since 2010.

I‘m tired of mediocrity.
 
I'm tired of having bad staff.

We need a complete league-wide purge of hockey coaches and GMs. Get brand new blood in here who won't keep hiring retreads and their friends.
 
bobbythebrain said:
Better yet having someone type tooth and nail on how best to develop a player, despite probably never even developing anything more than a role of film, if that
Yet claiming that the current coaches who have arguably made key decisions that developed hundreds of players, are being stupid in this case.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well, Snott Gondola has definitely not developed hundreds of players. Considering the level of talent he has gotten over the last handful of years compared to the numbers of competent bottom 6ers to come out of his program this shouldn't even be up for debate.
 
Gordok can’t win on this board. Posters have themselves convinced he’s a bumbling idiot with no in-depth tactical knowledge or teaching ability, contrary to quotes from players. He’s given no credit for players who improve under him — it’s all chalked up to “in spite of.” But he gets blamed if fringe players aren’t more than fringe players, or if 20-year-olds aren’t immediately crushing it under his watch.

He has Tuukka Rask, David Krejci, Versteeg, McQuaid, Tim Thomas, John Tavares, Kyle Okposo, Blake Comeau, Matt Moulson, Nick Cousins, Laughton, Sanheim, Myers, Friedman, Lindblom, TK, & others (including a # of young players when he assisted in Toronto) who improved under his coaching.
 
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