Speculation: 2019-20 News/Rumors,Roster thread Post Deadline

[Lt Dan]

The 2014 team was more talented, but the 2012 team played better.

Outside of Quick stealing series, which is a teams most important player. I think different players really elevated their game in different ways in the two different runs

but just like we wouldn't have had nearly the success in 2012 without Quick and Brown , we wouldn't have in 2014 without Williams and Gaborik especially. IMO, the 2014 also had the benefit of experience and was much more mentally tougher

2012 Better 2014 Better
Quick Williams
Richards Gaborik
King Carter
Brown Martinez

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

2014 never said die. 2012 never let the opponent live. Pick your poison!

 

[johnjm22]

Outside of Quick stealing series, which is a teams most important player. I think different players really elevated their game in different ways in the two different runs

but just like we wouldn't have had nearly the success in 2012 without Quick and Brown , we wouldn't have in 2014 without Williams and Gaborik especially. IMO, the 2014 also had the benefit of experience and was much more mentally tougher

2012 Better 2014 Better
Quick Williams
Richards Gaborik
King Carter
Brown Martinez

"Quick stealing series"

^I don't agree with this. It's a false media narrative used to discredit the 2012 Kings.

The Kings were the better team in each series and that's why they won. If you take away the goaltending performance, the Kings were still outplaying their opponents.

 

[Lt Dan]

"Quick steeling series"

^I don't agree with this. It's a false media narrative used to discredit the Kings 2012 performance.

The Kings were the better team in each series and that's why they won. If you take away the goaltending performance, the Kings were still outplaying their opponents.

You are free to disagree all you want. This is "Merica!

But he was the Conn Smythe Winner. There will always be disagreements, but I think few will disagree that he was our best player and he was absolutely better in 2012 than he was in 2014

2014 Goalies Playoffs

Goalie Stats
Rk	Player	Age	GP	GS	W	L	T/O	GA	SA	SV	SV%	GAA	SO	MIN	Starts with SV% > average SV% for the year, or at least 88.5% on nights with 20 or fewer shots against. Developed by Rob Vollman in the Hockey Abstract." data-over-header="Goalie Stats" style="border-top: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-right: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(116, 118, 120); border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); padding: 4px 3px; vertical-align: middle; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); white-space: nowrap; background-clip: padding-box; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">QS	QS/GS > 60% Good, < 50% Bad, ~53% League Avg Developed by Rob Vollman in the Hockey Abstract." data-over-header="Goalie Stats" style="border-top: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-right: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(116, 118, 120); border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); padding: 4px 3px; vertical-align: middle; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); white-space: nowrap; background-clip: padding-box; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">QS%	Starts with a SV% below 85%. Developed by Rob Vollman in the Hockey Abstract" data-over-header="Goalie Stats" style="border-top: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-right: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(116, 118, 120); border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); padding: 4px 3px; vertical-align: middle; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); white-space: nowrap; background-clip: padding-box; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">RBS	Lower is better, 100 is exactly average, 0 means you have saved 100% of shots faced. Min. 4 shots faced per team game needed to qualify." data-over-header="Goalie Stats" style="border-top: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-right: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(116, 118, 120); border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); padding: 4px 3px; vertical-align: middle; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); white-space: nowrap; background-clip: padding-box; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">GA%-	GSAA
1	Jonathan Quick	28	26	26	16	10	0	69	774	705	.911	2.58	2	1605	14	.538	5	101	-0.58

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2012 Goalies Playoffs

Goalie Stats
Rk	Player	Age	GP	GS	W	L	T/O	GA	SA	SV	SV%	GAA	SO	MIN	Starts with SV% > average SV% for the year, or at least 88.5% on nights with 20 or fewer shots against. Developed by Rob Vollman in the Hockey Abstract." data-over-header="Goalie Stats" style="border-top: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-right: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(116, 118, 120); border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); padding: 4px 3px; vertical-align: middle; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); white-space: nowrap; background-clip: padding-box; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">QS	QS/GS > 60% Good, < 50% Bad, ~53% League Avg Developed by Rob Vollman in the Hockey Abstract." data-over-header="Goalie Stats" style="border-top: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-right: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(116, 118, 120); border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); padding: 4px 3px; vertical-align: middle; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); white-space: nowrap; background-clip: padding-box; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">QS%	Starts with a SV% below 85%. Developed by Rob Vollman in the Hockey Abstract" data-over-header="Goalie Stats" style="border-top: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-right: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(116, 118, 120); border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); padding: 4px 3px; vertical-align: middle; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); white-space: nowrap; background-clip: padding-box; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">RBS	Lower is better, 100 is exactly average, 0 means you have saved 100% of shots faced. Min. 4 shots faced per team game needed to qualify." data-over-header="Goalie Stats" style="border-top: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-right: 0px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(116, 118, 120); border-left-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); padding: 4px 3px; vertical-align: middle; background-color: rgb(238, 238, 238); white-space: nowrap; background-clip: padding-box; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);">GA%-	GSAA
1	Jonathan Quick	26	20	20	16	4		29	538	509	.946	1.41	3	1238	17	.850	0	69	13.3

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[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[johnjm22]

Stats and awards don't tell the whole story. Everyone knows about Quick's stats for those years.

In 2011/12, Quick was the Kings best player for the whole season when you factor in the regular season, but he didn't "steal" a single series in the 2012 playoffs because there was nothing to steal. The Kings were just the best team.

Quick's 2014 playoff performance was more impressive when you consider all factors.

 

[Lt Dan]

Stats and awards don't tell the whole story. Everyone knows about Quick's stats for those years.

In 2011/12, Quick was the Kings best player for the whole season when you factor in the regular season, but he didn't "steal" a single series in the 2012 playoffs because there was nothing to steal. The Kings were just the best team.

Quick's 2014 playoff performance was more impressive when you consider all factors.

what factors are those?

 

[BringTheReign]

Stats and awards don't tell the whole story. Everyone knows about Quick's stats for those years.

In 2011/12, Quick was the Kings best player for the whole season when you factor in the regular season, but he didn't "steal" a single series in the 2012 playoffs because there was nothing to steal. The Kings were just the best team.

Quick's 2014 playoff performance was more impressive when you consider all factors.

I rewatched the 2012 Canucks and 2012 Devils series a few weeks back, and I'd honestly say Quick stole the former. If he doesn't have the statement games he does shutting down their offense (which was arguably the best in the league), we don't win that series. The team gained momentum through his play early-on.

I take your point about the "stealing" narrative being used to take away from that team's dominance, but I would have to at least give Quick credit for stealing the 1st round.

 

[OB5]

Random non Kings fan here who has a Kings question about a player's position. If one of you fine Kings fans an PM me that'd be great, just a quick question.

 

[Lt Dan]

Random non Kings fan here who has a Kings question about a player's position. If one of you fine Kings fans an PM me that'd be great, just a quick question.

why not just ask it?

It's not like we have hockey to talk about?

 

[OB5]

why not just ask it?

It's not like we have hockey to talk about?

As shady as this sounds I want to keep it a secret lol

 

[Lt Dan]

As shady as this sounds I want to keep it a secret lol

sounds like you are trying to get in to someone's pants and the position might be closer to kama sutra than hockey

<----Not a thot

 

[OB5]

Was just curious of a certain King was a C or W but found the stats. All good

 

[King'sPawn]

Outside of Quick stealing series, which is a teams most important player. I think different players really elevated their game in different ways in the two different runs

but just like we wouldn't have had nearly the success in 2012 without Quick and Brown , we wouldn't have in 2014 without Williams and Gaborik especially. IMO, the 2014 also had the benefit of experience and was much more mentally tougher

2012 Better 2014 Better
Quick Williams
Richards Gaborik
King Carter
Brown Martinez

I disagree with Quick stealing a series. I do think he stole a few games, St. Louis in particular, but his numbers were largely affected by the Kings constantly putting their foot on their opponent's throat.

The Conn Smythe is voted on by the media, and honestly, I feel the media votes more by numbers/stories than anything.

This isn't to say Quick was bad. Quite the opposite. But players like Doughty put up big points while controlling the pace, Richards and Brown set the physical tone/emotional leadership, and Kopitar led the playoffs in scoring while being a top defensive forward.

There were many viable candidates for Conn Smythe, but Quick benefited from having insane numbers behind a top defensive team.

That said, he was robbed of a Hart nomination for keeping his team in playoff contention while the Kings were among the worst offensively.

 

[cyclones22]

The Kings had a +27 goal differential in the Playoffs in 2012. That's an ass kicking. Quick was deserving of his Connie for sure, but they killed teams. The Kings were basically 2 teams in 2012. Pre-Carter and with Carter. Once they added Carter, they played like a top 5 team in the league record-wise and became the top Corsi team with a bullet.

 

[redcard]

sounds like you are trying to get in to someone's pants and the position might be closer to kama sutra than hockey

<----Not a thot

Look at LT Dan pretending to play hard to get.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Williams and Quick winning Conn Smythes is awesome because when those guys are faced with a tremendous amount of pressure they don't shy away from it, they thrive in it. They compete and keep fighting when faced with adversity.

But especially in Williams case as a skater, He was never the best or most important player on the team in any of those series. He had big moments, but Doughty and Kopitar were always carrying the lions share of the responsibility and were the most impactful skaters. They make the most plays on both ends of the ice, they draw the most attention from opposing teams and they consistently win difficult assignments from the most important positions on the ice.

If you truly give the award to the "most valuable player during the playoffs" it would be one of those two players. Followed by Carter.

There are also a lot of people who feel Goalie is the most important position (I don't) and if that's the case then Quick has a legit argument too.

 

[Maynard]

Was just curious of a certain King was a C or W but found the stats. All good

That’s the big secret? Man, what a letdown.

 

[King'sPawn]

That’s the big secret? Man, what a letdown.

Plot twist: he meant C or W in cup size

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Quick's 2012 playoff numbers may be exaggerated and I wouldn't say he STOLE series--but he was absolutely instrumental in shutting down the Canucks and Blues in particular early in those series allowing us to get the engine on the steamroller going. Part of why his numbers were so good were his 'big game' work early in the series getting in everyone's heads. I think he doesn't get enough credit for that part of it. Numbers wise, he actually entered the Cup finals in 2012 with a .951 which is absolutely insane. He also entered the Blackhawks series like that in 2013, he was one of the most dominant goalies in league history for those two playoff years, and even though his 2013 reg season was pedestrian, realizing he came off a back surgery after 2012 is nuts.

However I do think he takes relative over-praise in 2012 and under-praise in 2014, outside this forum it's always suggested the Kings won in spite of him in 2014 without considering the big picture at all. I mean, the guy had multiple 2-0s and 3-0s on him in one game in the Hawks series lol. Totally different run.

 

[Statto]

I disagree with Quick stealing a series. I do think he stole a few games, St. Louis in particular, but his numbers were largely affected by the Kings constantly putting their foot on their opponent's throat.

The Conn Smythe is voted on by the media, and honestly, I feel the media votes more by numbers/stories than anything.

This isn't to say Quick was bad. Quite the opposite. But players like Doughty put up big points while controlling the pace, Richards and Brown set the physical tone/emotional leadership, and Kopitar led the playoffs in scoring while being a top defensive forward.

There were many viable candidates for Conn Smythe, but Quick benefited from having insane numbers behind a top defensive team.

That said, he was robbed of a Hart nomination for keeping his team in playoff contention while the Kings were among the worst offensively.

I agree, I think Quick stole games and outplayed every goaltender he faced. I would not say he stole a series but he did come up big when needed, everytime. It would be wrong to say he didn’t deserve the Conn Smythe as he was outstanding and his performance was at that level, but I’d have given it to Kopitar then Doughty before him although it was very close. He was however absolutely robbed of the Vezina and should have been a finalist for the Hart.

In 2014 his numbers were not as good but when he had to be on it, he was as good as he has ever been. Quick was key in the reverse sweep, after game three he got dialled in and was never going to be beaten. As opposed to big numbers, in 2014 for Quick it was about big moments, he was money.

I also disagreed with the Conn Smythe award in 2014 as with Williams I thought it was an emotional, romantic decision. I wouldn’t say he didn’t deserve it, but Kopitar and Doughty again along with Gaborik all had stronger cases in my opinion. With 14 goals I think I’d have given it to Gabby.

 

[KINGS17]

I disagree with Quick stealing a series. I do think he stole a few games, St. Louis in particular, but his numbers were largely affected by the Kings constantly putting their foot on their opponent's throat.

The Conn Smythe is voted on by the media, and honestly, I feel the media votes more by numbers/stories than anything.

This isn't to say Quick was bad. Quite the opposite. But players like Doughty put up big points while controlling the pace, Richards and Brown set the physical tone/emotional leadership, and Kopitar led the playoffs in scoring while being a top defensive forward.

There were many viable candidates for Conn Smythe, but Quick benefited from having insane numbers behind a top defensive team.

That said, he was robbed of a Hart nomination for keeping his team in playoff contention while the Kings were among the worst offensively.

I agree, Game 1 in St. Louis was the one I remember the most when it comes to Quick stoning an opponent.

If you take a look at this shot chart from Game 1, St. Louis had 13 shots from prime scoring areas, and the Kings had 5-7 depending on how you look at it. The Kings won Game 1, and Quick stole it for them.

If you are a Blues player after Game 1 you are looking behind you and seeing Elliott, then in front of you and seeing Quick, and probably thinking we have a very slim margin of error. Probably akin to how the Kings felt in the 1993 Stanley Cup Final every time the game went to OT.

Los Angeles Kings at St. Louis Blues Box Score — April 28, 2012 | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[KopitarFAN]

Sounds like we might be talking about a draft the 1st week of October, unless they decide they want to wedge it into early July.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Critics of the Kings' 2012 Cup run said that they dealt with zero adversity (not even considering what they went through during the regular season).

The 2014 Kings shut them up. Jim Fox recently said in the last All the Kings Men podcast that the 2014 Cup run might have been the toughest gauntlet a team had to go through to win a Stanley Cup.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I agree, Game 1 in St. Louis was the one I remember the most when it comes to Quick stoning an opponent.

If you take a look at this shot chart from Game 1, St. Louis had 13 shots from prime scoring areas, and the Kings had 5-7 depending on how you look at it. The Kings won Game 1, and Quick stole it for them.

If you are a Blues player after Game 1 you are looking behind you and seeing Elliott, then in front of you and seeing Quick, and probably thinking we have a very slim margin of error. Probably akin to how the Kings felt in the 1993 Stanley Cup Final every time the game went to OT.

Los Angeles Kings at St. Louis Blues Box Score — April 28, 2012 | Hockey-Reference.com

That period of Game 1 vs st louis was like...welp, we're f***ed. I thought there was no way we were even in the series after that. THATS where Quick earned it. Scared the piss out of everyone for the rest of the run.

It's wild too because other goalies did play well--Luongo wasn't bad, he was just in the middle of his phase getting called a choker, Schneider came in and played nails--Quick just outplayed them both, gave all goalies ZERO margin for error. I guess the goalies did get progressively worse. But Smith was in the middle of his own Cinderella story until we derailed his entire life haha. Remember the Yotes beat the Hawks! That's where a lot of the 'undeserving' talk came from when we ran into them in 2013 and they ran over.

 

[David Catselhoff]

Heres how I look at 2012 vs 2014.

2012 was the better team because they would just smother other teams and completely dictate the pace of the game. Truly great teams have the ability. Having a healthy 6 defenseman play the entire playoffs was huge for that team. While they didnt have the adversity of the 2014 team, they were so dialed in, that should be looked at as a positive attribute.

But if you were going to ask me which team I would want to take into the playoffs, I would take 2014 no doubt. If were talking all-time teams, that 2012 team could have trouble against some of the great all time offenses like the 80s era Oilers. That 2014 team however would find a way to win. They just had some amazing clutch performances, and no matter what teams tried to do, no one could put them away. They had that next gear that just allowed them to overcome anything. I think losing in 2013 had a big part in that attitude. They had to lose to Chicago due to some key injuries and didnt have the fortitude to overcome it. Not in 2014, they would have sacrificed their first born children to win in 2014. While 2012 was the "better" team, the 2014 team I believe would overcome just about any odds to come out on top.