2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[Minor Boarding]

I showed you actual facts, not your made up headcanon or failing memory.

Don't make unsupportable assertions if you're going to run from the evidence.

Everybody knows Kopitar leading the playoffs twice was just luck and all because of his linemates.
It's not a sign of beeing a dominant player in the playoffs or anything.
How dare you question that.

 

[King'sPawn]

At some point we all need to ask ourselves what is more valuable: the steady, predictable constant force who provides the backbone and stability so others can excel, or those who raise their level of play when its required so that the team can not just be there, but go over the top to win.

Kopitar is remarkably steady. But I strongly disagree that he is consistently able to be the kind of player who can gauge whats needed and provide it. He fails in that aspect of the game, just as one could say that the stars fail provide the backbone on other teams.

I am absolutely, keenly aware of the value Kopitar brings. Its not lost on me, I know this game in and out. I don't discount his contributions. I do, however, find him to be a player who has not used his offensive ability to its most when his team has needed someone to step up. He has had years here where, yes, he has lead his team in scoring, but still been an underachiever.

My preference is for a top line center whose offensive contributions are most important, and defensive ones are bonuses. I don't think its enough to praise someone with so much ability for putting it to the side in favor of concentrating on what other players down the lineup can easily contribute. When Kopitar blends both, he is easily one of the top players in the world. It just doesn't happen with enough consistency to overlook those gaps in performance.

I understand. We've butted heads over the years. Not sure if it's how I read your arguments or how you present them, but I just accept that you and I have a different priority.

I'm not denying he had years where he could have done more, but given what he has contributed, I still think he played very well.

But it's frankly just a neverending argument. No ill feelings or disrespect intended, but we'll apparently never agree or change each other's mind.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Go back and watch Game 6 of the New Jersey series if you want a perfect example of what I am talking about. See which players decided to dare to be great, and who stayed the course.

The problem with this whole line of reasoning is the faulty premise that Kopitar wasn't just great the whole time instead of needing to raise his level of play. 2014 finals I'll grant. Any other time in the Cup runs? Give me a break. He didn't need to "raise his play" when he was largely the best forward on the ice. For someone so big on intangibles and defense, you're completely downplaying him and the fact that he led the team in scoring while doing all the grunt work.

Go back and watch the Hawks series. Then, for fun, check out the playoff numbers in 2013 to see who showed up and who didn't.

That's only proving my point, you're cherry picking moments. And I thought we were referencing the Conn Smythe? Otherwise, hell, sure, I'll pick all sorts of games other people didn't show up.

I will accept your apology at any time. Hockey, especially playoff hockey, is about rising to occasions. Those moments are what wins games and are remembered.

No one can watched what we all watched together and deny the magic of intangibles and moments in hockey, especially with those Kings teams.

You're just again illustrating the problem: you're conflating 'big moments' with 'effectiveness.' Your memory is betraying you. You're forgetting that those moments of elevated play are in contrast to largely lesser play.

I would argue that Mike Richards stepping on Vancouvers throat at the end of Game 1 is more valuable anything Kopitar contributed until his OT goal in Jersey. Then see how many huge moments Richards contributed to the Cup clincher. And see just how little Kopitar did in that game aside from an assist on the second empty netter.

This argument just illustrates you totally overvaluing said moments.

I would argue that Doughty shut down the transition offense of every single opponent while playing damn near half every game.

100% agreed.

I would argue that Brown, a guy coming off of a disastrous season that saw him nearly traded provided an inspirational output that trumps any statistical category.

Walking the line with this one, generally agree on the magnitude of his inspirational play.

So yeah, remember what this argument is all about, you getting your dander up about stating that Kopitar was the 4th best player on Cup winning teams. What a joke.

This argument is about you relying on a faulty narrator--your memory--reminding you of all the 'big' things that happened in those runs while completely forgetting other contributions. I don't care if you have a Mike Richards tattoo, your point that Mike Richards contributed more with hitting Burrows than Kopitar did for 3 entire playoff rounds is emblematic of your bias and a major flaw in your hot take. You're taking intangibles to the extreme. Someone needs to actually score and defend, too. This is a style over substance argument and it's pretty clear neither actual evidence nor opinions supported with contradictory anecdotes are going to change your mind because as usual your viewpoint is the only viewpoint that matters, evidence be damned. Oh well.

I'm sorry Kopitar is such a boring player but he's a god damn effective player and downplaying his effectiveness in those playoff runs by doubling down on intangibles over results is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Good luck with that.

 

[Bandit]

We’re now saying that Kopitar didn’t do much during the cup runs? Ooooooooook. I mean when he Staples his ass to the half wall on the powerplay and doesn’t shoot, it pisses me off too but let’s not get absurd.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

We all know the Kings don’t win that first Cup without Colin Fraser.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

We all know the Kings don’t win that first Cup without Colin Fraser.

good ol Stigmata Fraser

 

[Herby]

The righteous indignation of the Kopi Krew every time he is criticized is such a joke.

He didn't finish the playoffs as strong as he started either year. Thats just fact, not an i sult. Other players raised the level of their games as both their importance AND visibility increased.

No, he wasn't as good as Doughty during either run. Quick was otherwordly in 2012, nothing Kopitar did was going to take votes away from such a performance. Brown, who most know that I am not the biggest fan of, came up huge when it mattered and had big effects in all.four series. Richards came through in big moments over and over, and finished with just a few points less than Kopitar. I will concede that is just my preference, but no way in hell could anyone who wants to be taken seriously say Anze was more valuable than Quick or Doughty.

In 2014 Kopitar played the best hockey of his life in the San Jose series. After that his contributions in all aspects of the game dropped with each series. In a playoffs decided by emotion and never say die attitude willing their way thru 7 game series of course those with the more obviously affectual play are going to be valued. In the Finals, Kopitar was a non-factor. Williams showed up in the big moments over and over again. Carter was the best player on the ice in the best playoff series in modern history. Doughty dominated all 200 feet from start to finish. Its no shame to say that Kopitar was the 4th best player in that group, yet you lot are reacting as though he was just tarred and feathered.

Richards was never in the same universe as Kopitar while with the Kings, and probably wasn't even really close to him while in Philly. He was a secondary player (albeit a good one in 2012 run) but Kopitar was always the clearly better player. Carter was better than Richards but the same holds true with him.

That 2014 series the Kings had one of the worst lines I've ever seen play regularly in a series, rarely see a line get as dominated as our 4th line did. Kings were still able to win the series largely because Kopitar was as usual a rock defensively and the 70's line took advantage of favorable matchups and zone starts. Credit to them, they all played well, but I think you understate how important Kopitar was.

 

[King'sPawn]

We all know the Kings don’t win that first Cup without Colin Fraser.

If you haven't heard it yet, I strongly recommend listening to episode 16 of Kings of the Podcast.

I know I'm biased as someone who writes for Hoven, but they had a great interview with Colin Fraser.

 

[Bandit]

We all know the Kings don’t win that first Cup without Colin Fraser.

I know you’re joking but honestly it’s probably true.

 

[Statto]

Go back and watch Game 6 of the New Jersey series if you want a perfect example of what I am talking about. See which players decided to dare to be great, and who stayed the course.

Go back and watch the Hawks series. Then, for fun, check out the playoff numbers in 2013 to see who showed up and who didn't.

I will accept your apology at any time. Hockey, especially playoff hockey, is about rising to occasions. Those moments are what wins games and are remembered.

I would argue that Mike Richards stepping on Vancouvers throat at the end of Game 1 is more valuable anything Kopitar contributed until his OT goal in Jersey. Then see how many huge moments Richards contributed to the Cup clincher. And see just how little Kopitar did in that game aside from an assist on the second empty netter.

I would argue that Doughty shut down the transition offense of every single opponent while playing damn near half every game.

I would argue that Brown, a guy coming off of a disastrous season that saw him nearly traded provided an inspirational output.that trumps any statistical category.

So yeah, remember what this argument is all about, you getting your dander up about stating that Kopitar was the 4th best player on Cup winning teams. What a joke.

I would argue that Kopitar provided the foundation that allowed the great contributions you listed to actually mean something.

 

[KINGS17]

The three best seasons in the history of the Kings were not driven by superstars. The Kings success during those three seasons were based on team effort and depth.

When the boys grew tired of giving the effort, the Kings started to slide.

 

[kings11]

The three best seasons in the history of the Kings were not driven by superstars. The Kings success during those three seasons were based on team effort and depth.

When the boys grew tired of giving the effort, the Kings started to slide.

I’ll call BS on this...
The efforts has always been there, what faded away was the depth, secondary scoring and leadership this team was built on..
people want to say Voynov was a big loss but the reality was when Mitchell, Greene and Scuderi faded so to did this team along with valuable toughness and secondary leadership..When offensive players like Richards, Stoll and Williams left the remainder of said secondary leadership and toughness went with them..
there’s so much more I want to write but no one wants to read that lol...
Kopitar didn’t lead the ‘14 playoffs in scoring by accident.. He did so because he was the best player on the ice on a daily basis! And when he wasn’t scoring he was put on the ice as a defensive stopper that allowed our secondary scorers to just that. If people don’t like him because he isn’t flashy that’s fine but don’t try and knock the guy for being one of the top 3 all around, 200 ft game players over the last decade..

 

[crassbonanza]

The three best seasons in the history of the Kings were not driven by superstars. The Kings success during those three seasons were based on team effort and depth.

When the boys grew tired of giving the effort, the Kings started to slide.

Kopitar and Doughty are superstars and they drove those teams.

In 2014 when the Kings were severely depleted Sutter had to rely heavily on Doughty/Kopitar throughout those playoffs, Doughty ended up setting a record with 747 minutes of TOI. For reference, Pietrangelo led the playoffs last season in TOI with 669 in the same number of games played.

 

[Lt Dan]

The three best seasons in the history of the Kings were not driven by superstars. The Kings success during those three seasons were based on team effort and depth.

When the boys grew tired of giving the effort, the Kings started to slide.

I’ll call BS on this...
The efforts has always been there, what faded away was the depth, secondary scoring and leadership this team was built on..
people want to say Voynov was a big loss but the reality was when Mitchell, Greene and Scuderi faded so to did this team along with valuable toughness and secondary leadership..When offensive players like Richards, Stoll and Williams left the remainder of said secondary leadership and toughness went with them..
there’s so much more I want to write but no one wants to read that lol...
..

Umm unless I am missing something , you are agreeing with him

 

[Reaper45]

Where are the rumors? We usually hear about someone scouting someone hardcore by now. Last year it was the Lightning scouting the Kings, the year before it was the Rangers.

 

[Lt Dan]

Where are the rumors? We usually hear about someone scouting someone hardcore by now. Last year it was the Lightning scouting the Kings, the year before it was the Rangers.

Rumors out of buffalo that they are talking to us about an unnamed player and Montreal was apparently close to trading for AMart before his injury

 

[ibleedkings]

I'm assuming a forward will be called up today? Lewis was KO'd pretty good last game.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah that looked like a concussion for Lewis but still no news

Getting pretty sick of our trade assets getting KOed

 

[YP44]

Where are the rumors? We usually hear about someone scouting someone hardcore by now. Last year it was the Lightning scouting the Kings, the year before it was the Rangers.

It was the habs before martinez went down

 

[regulate]

I'm assuming a forward will be called up today? Lewis was KO'd pretty good last game.

 

[YP44]

I'm assuming a forward will be called up today? Lewis was KO'd pretty good last game.

No point in calling anyone up till end of christmas break

edit: well never mind haha...frk

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Sweet, Frk deserves it

But RIP Lewis

And also RIP Reign

 

[kings11]

Umm unless I am missing something , you are agreeing with him

Agreed that it was a team drive success but disagreed with how bland makes it seem like Kopitar didn’t step up when needed.. Kopitar did a lot of heavy lifting for the sake of the team... Yet people forget that... Superstars dint just put up points they also do a lot of the little things that dont get noticed
I should have obviously been more clear since I was relying to two questions. Hope that clears it up somewhat

 

[YP44]

I missed the buffalo game...what happened to Lewis?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I missed the buffalo game...what happened to Lewis?

A head on collision.