2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[regulate]

I think it's hilarious we're having a discussion about an article written by ESPN on hockey.

 

[Bandit]

I think it's hilarious we're having a discussion about an article written by ESPN on hockey.

Better than rehashing who we didn’t draft 16 years ago for the millionth time.

 

[King'sPawn]

Better than rehashing who we didn’t draft 16 years ago for the millionth time.

I mean, if the Kings grabbed Perry and Bergeron instead of Pushkarev and Tambellini, the Kings would have been a dynasty.

 

[HookKing]

I agree. Williams’ Conn Smythe was an emotional decision and Doughty was definitely our best player, with Kopi just behind. I also had Gaborik down in my top 3, people forget just how good Gaborik was in 2014. He scored some huge goals and was definitely a great example of a trade taking a team over the top. I digress...

Doughty’s ranking is just idiotic. He’s either the no1 or no2 d-man and there’s little valid debate.

I thought DD should have won the CS in 2012, Quick was great but he didn't really need to be (actually he should have won the Hart). Doughty, fore example, simply rendered the Devils forecheck useless.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I thought DD should have won the CS in 2012, Quick was great but he didn't really need to be (actually he should have won the Hart). Doughty, fore example, simply rendered the Devils forecheck useless.

Always thought it was kind of ironic that he didn't get the Hart or Vezina when he was the season MVP but got the Conn Smythe instead.

 

[King'sPawn]

Always thought it was kind of ironic that he didn't get the Hart or Vezina when he was the season MVP but got the Conn Smythe instead.

I honestly felt he should have been the Hart winner in 2012. Kopitar or Doughty should have been the CS winner in 2012.

Quick, while amazing, was at that point behind a team firing on all cylinders. But I feel the media in general just had an easier time looking at his numbers instead of critically evaluating the games and the team.

 

[Statto]

I honestly felt he should have been the Hart winner in 2012. Kopitar or Doughty should have been the CS winner in 2012.

Quick, while amazing, was at that point behind a team firing on all cylinders. But I feel the media in general just had an easier time looking at his numbers instead of critically evaluating the games and the team.

I don’t have much of an argument against that. Definitely agree on the Hart (and the Vezina for that matter) and it’s another great example of good old east coast bias.

 

[KINGS17]

Malkin led the NHL with 109 points in a season where Crosby only played 22 games. Kopitar only had 76 points. Of course Malkin won the Hart Trophy that season.

 

[kings11]

Malkin led the NHL with 109 points in a season where Crosby only played 22 games. Kopitar only had 76 points. Of course Malkin won the Hart Trophy that season.

I’ve always wonder about one thing in regard to Kopi’s production... could a Malkin, Stamkos, Toews and a few others players people keep saying we’re/are better... could/would they have done better in any aspect than what Kopitar did under CDS during that 6 year stretch?? Or would they have faded after the heavy physical toll like Richards did?

 

[King'sPawn]

Malkin led the NHL with 109 points in a season where Crosby only played 22 games. Kopitar only had 76 points. Of course Malkin won the Hart Trophy that season.

Who brought up Kopitar winning the Hart, aside from you? We were talking about Quick winning it.

 

[KINGS17]

Who brought up Kopitar winning the Hart, aside from you? We were talking about Quick winning it.

My bad I didn't follow the conversation correctly.

 

[King'sPawn]

My bad I didn't follow the conversation correctly.

Ah, okay. Sorry if my post before caused confusion/wasn't clear!

 

[bland]

Kopitar wasn't a serious contender for either Conn Smythe. His performances in the Cup Finals dropped below that of the winners, and you can see why the guy with the underwhelming finish to the run didn't get the nod.

I personally feel that there has only been one series in Kopitar's career where anyone could legitimately say that he was the teams best player, and that was the San Jose comeback. I wouldn't put him in the top 4 of any other series.

And I would have given both the 12 and 14 trophies to Doughty.

2012 was Doughty, Quick, Brown, Richards, Kopitar fifth

2014 Doughty, Williams, Carter, Kopitar, Gaborik

 

[KINGS17]

Kopitar wasn't a serious contender for either Conn Smythe. His performances in the Cup Finals dropped below that of the winners, and you can see why the guy with the underwhelming finish to the run didn't get the nod.

I personally feel that there has only been one series in Kopitar's career where anyone could legitimately say that he was the teams best player, and that was the San Jose comeback. I wouldn't put him in the top 4 of any other series.

And I would have given both the 12 and 14 trophies to Doughty.

2012 was Doughty, Quick, Brown, Richards, Kopitar fifth

2014 Doughty, Williams, Carter, Kopitar, Gaborik

I think the narrative on Quick in 2012 was established in the first two rounds. His save percentage in the first two rounds was well over 90%, and he clearly outplayed the opposition's goalie. I remember some pretty big saves from Quick early in Game 1 against St. Louis that set the tone. Then he meets Brodeur in the Stanley Cup Final and clearly outplays him. It was a story that was easy for the media to run with.

By the time Quick was done with his 46 save performance in Game 2, and 41 save shutout in Game 3, of Vancouver in the first round, he was going to win the Conn Smythe if the Kings won the cup.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[kingsholygrail]

The wins stat stood out too much for the media and Lundqvist had been in the Vezina discussion for years before finally getting it at Quick's expense. Their stats were roughly the same.

 

[King'sPawn]

Kopitar wasn't a serious contender for either Conn Smythe. His performances in the Cup Finals dropped below that of the winners, and you can see why the guy with the underwhelming finish to the run didn't get the nod.

I personally feel that there has only been one series in Kopitar's career where anyone could legitimately say that he was the teams best player, and that was the San Jose comeback. I wouldn't put him in the top 4 of any other series.

And I would have given both the 12 and 14 trophies to Doughty.

2012 was Doughty, Quick, Brown, Richards, Kopitar fifth

2014 Doughty, Williams, Carter, Kopitar, Gaborik

I strongly disagree.

He led both cup winning teams in scoring while also playing a shutdown role and special teams. That's a common theme where people say he doesn't demand more of himself, don't appreciate his contributions, or simply don't feel what he has done is enough.

He's not the type of player to set the pace or tone. He's not the emotional leader. We get that. For years, I've said he's a Golden Retriever and people are disappointed in him not being a Doberman.

Doughty definitely deserves credit for stepping up both playoffs and I understand the argument of nominating him for the Smythe in either playoffs.

But this is more of a symptom of lack of media attention. Quick put up ungodly numbers and got the attention of the media, and people kept pushing for Williams and Mr. Game 7. As the trophy is one voted on by the media, it's to be expected that the majority votes go for the headlines.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yep, Kopitar was his usual ho-hum steady-eddie boring ass self leading the playoffs in scoring twice. Not sure his 2012 finals can be discounted given 5 pts and 2 goals including an OT GWG. And he was scoring at higher than the Malkin Conn Smythe pace in 2014 until he ran into the buzzsaw Selke tandem of Toews and Hossa which is what allowed that 70s line to run wild. Saying he's not in the top 4 players of any other series but 1 is a pretty hot take. I'll agree his 2014 finals caused him to not win that one, since recency bias.

Just another view of Kopitar, I guess. Guy can bring his usual Selke level play to the playoffs and blackhole Toews, Getzlaf, and Thornton (and Stepan but lol) while leading the playoffs in scoring and he's not even a top-4 important player in any given series. And people wonder why I say this forum doesn't appreciate him. f***ing unbelievable sometimes.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The wins stat stood out too much for the media and Lundqvist had been in the Vezina discussion for years before finally getting it at Quick's expense. Their stats were roughly the same.

It was insane how many games Quick lost allowing only one goal or, in at least one case I can remember, 0 goals and losing in the shootout.

 

[bland]

Yep, Kopitar was his usual ho-hum steady-eddie boring ass self leading the playoffs in scoring twice. Not sure his 2012 finals can be discounted given 5 pts and 2 goals including an OT GWG. And he was scoring at higher than the Malkin Conn Smythe pace in 2014 until he ran into the buzzsaw Selke tandem of Toews and Hossa which is what allowed that 70s line to run wild. Saying he's not in the top 4 players of any other series but 1 is a pretty hot take. I'll agree his 2014 finals caused him to not win that one, since recency bias.

Just another view of Kopitar, I guess. Guy can bring his usual Selke level play to the playoffs and blackhole Toews, Getzlaf, and Thornton (and Stepan but lol) while leading the playoffs in scoring and he's not even a top-4 important player. And people wonder why I say this forum doesn't appreciate him. ****ing unbelievable sometimes.

The righteous indignation of the Kopi Krew every time he is criticized is such a joke.

He didn't finish the playoffs as strong as he started either year. Thats just fact, not an i sult. Other players raised the level of their games as both their importance AND visibility increased.

No, he wasn't as good as Doughty during either run. Quick was otherwordly in 2012, nothing Kopitar did was going to take votes away from such a performance. Brown, who most know that I am not the biggest fan of, came up huge when it mattered and had big effects in all.four series. Richards came through in big moments over and over, and finished with just a few points less than Kopitar. I will concede that is just my preference, but no way in hell could anyone who wants to be taken seriously say Anze was more valuable than Quick or Doughty.

In 2014 Kopitar played the best hockey of his life in the San Jose series. After that his contributions in all aspects of the game dropped with each series. In a playoffs decided by emotion and never say die attitude willing their way thru 7 game series of course those with the more obviously affectual play are going to be valued. In the Finals, Kopitar was a non-factor. Williams showed up in the big moments over and over again. Carter was the best player on the ice in the best playoff series in modern history. Doughty dominated all 200 feet from start to finish. Its no shame to say that Kopitar was the 4th best player in that group, yet you lot are reacting as though he was just tarred and feathered.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The righteous indignation of the Kopi Krew every time he is criticized is such a joke.

He didn't finish the playoffs as strong as he started either year. Thats just fact, not an i sult. Other players raised the level of their games as both their importance AND visibility increased.

No, he wasn't as good as Doughty during either run. Quick was otherwordly in 2012, nothing Kopitar did was going to take votes away from such a performance. Brown, who most know that I am not the biggest fan of, came up huge when it mattered and had big effects in all.four series. Richards came through in big moments over and over, and finished with just a few points less than Kopitar. I will concede that is just my preference, but no way in hell could anyone who wants to be taken seriously say Anze was more valuable than Quick or Doughty.

In 2014 Kopitar played the best hockey of his life in the San Jose series. After that his contributions in all aspects of the game dropped with each series. In a playoffs decided by emotion and never say die attitude willing their way thru 7 game series of course those with the more obviously affectual play are going to be valued. In the Finals, Kopitar was a non-factor. Williams showed up in the big moments over and over again. Carter was the best player on the ice in the best playoff series in modern history. Doughty dominated all 200 feet from start to finish. Its no shame to say that Kopitar was the 4th best player in that group, yet you lot are reacting as though he was just tarred and feathered.

I guess you're going to conveniently forget Brown's level of play dropping heavily after the Mike Smith tomahawk to the knee; Mike Richards in the finals being 4 assists, no goals, and minus 2; need I go on? You're remembering 'big moments' and ignoring body of work. Hell saying Carter was better than Kopitar in the 2014 playoffs because he was the best player on the ice in one series is emblematic of that...and he was enabled by Kopitar!

Kopitar's first series in 2012 was 1 goal, 3 assists, + 3 in 5 games; vs. the Devils, it was 2 goals (1 OT GWG), 3 assists, + +3 in 6 games. How is that "not finishing the playoffs as strong as he started?"

Crazy how he led the playoffs in scoring twice, must have just stumbled into that I guess. Never mind that it all comes in hard minutes including special teams work while a lot of these other guys are just unleashed to do their things.

But I agree Quick was nuclear in 2012 and no one was passing that, and Doughty was the best player in the entire world in 2014. A few guys having big moments doesn't drop Kopitar beyond that, and your initial assertion was that he wasn't even a top-4 guy in any series but the SJ one--so you're moving the goalposts because hopefully you realize what a hot take that was.

 

[bland]

I strongly disagree.

He led both cup winning teams in scoring while also playing a shutdown role and special teams. That's a common theme where people say he doesn't demand more of himself, don't appreciate his contributions, or simply don't feel what he has done is enough.

He's not the type of player to set the pace or tone. He's not the emotional leader. We get that. For years, I've said he's a Golden Retriever and people are disappointed in him not being a Doberman.

Doughty definitely deserves credit for stepping up both playoffs and I understand the argument of nominating him for the Smythe in either playoffs.

But this is more of a symptom of lack of media attention. Quick put up ungodly numbers and got the attention of the media, and people kept pushing for Williams and Mr. Game 7. As the trophy is one voted on by the media, it's to be expected that the majority votes go for the headlines.

At some point we all need to ask ourselves what is more valuable: the steady, predictable constant force who provides the backbone and stability so others can excel, or those who raise their level of play when its required so that the team can not just be there, but go over the top to win.

Kopitar is remarkably steady. But I strongly disagree that he is consistently able to be the kind of player who can gauge whats needed and provide it. He fails in that aspect of the game, just as one could say that the stars fail provide the backbone on other teams.

I am absolutely, keenly aware of the value Kopitar brings. Its not lost on me, I know this game in and out. I don't discount his contributions. I do, however, find him to be a player who has not used his offensive ability to its most when his team has needed someone to step up. He has had years here where, yes, he has lead his team in scoring, but still been an underachiever.

My preference is for a top line center whose offensive contributions are most important, and defensive ones are bonuses. I don't think its enough to praise someone with so much ability for putting it to the side in favor of concentrating on what other players down the lineup can easily contribute. When Kopitar blends both, he is easily one of the top players in the world. It just doesn't happen with enough consistency to overlook those gaps in performance.

 

[bland]

I guess you're going to conveniently forget Brown's level of play dropping heavily after the Mike Smith tomahawk to the knee; Mike Richards in the finals being 4 assists, no goals, and minus 2; need I go on? You're remembering 'big moments' and ignoring body of work. Hell saying Carter was better than Kopitar in the 2014 playoffs because he was the best player on the ice in one series is emblematic of that...and he was enabled by Kopitar!

Kopitar's first series in 2012 was 1 goal, 3 assists, + 3 in 5 games; vs. the Devils, it was 2 goals (1 OT GWG), 3 assists, + +3 in 6 games. How is that "not finishing the playoffs as strong as he started?"

Crazy how he led the playoffs in scoring twice, must have just stumbled into that I guess.

No, your bias is just showing.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No, your bias is just showing.

I showed you actual facts, not your made up headcanon or failing memory.

Don't make unsupportable assertions if you're going to run from the evidence.

 

[bland]

I showed you actual facts, not your made up headcanon or failing memory.

Don't make unsupportable assertions if you're going to run from the evidence.

Go back and watch Game 6 of the New Jersey series if you want a perfect example of what I am talking about. See which players decided to dare to be great, and who stayed the course.

Go back and watch the Hawks series. Then, for fun, check out the playoff numbers in 2013 to see who showed up and who didn't.

I will accept your apology at any time. Hockey, especially playoff hockey, is about rising to occasions. Those moments are what wins games and are remembered.

I would argue that Mike Richards stepping on Vancouvers throat at the end of Game 1 is more valuable anything Kopitar contributed until his OT goal in Jersey. Then see how many huge moments Richards contributed to the Cup clincher. And see just how little Kopitar did in that game aside from an assist on the second empty netter.

I would argue that Doughty shut down the transition offense of every single opponent while playing damn near half every game.

I would argue that Brown, a guy coming off of a disastrous season that saw him nearly traded provided an inspirational output.that trumps any statistical category.

So yeah, remember what this argument is all about, you getting your dander up about stating that Kopitar was the 4th best player on Cup winning teams. What a joke.