2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[kings11]

Kovi, Nate Dog, Foles and Muzz are all playing better since leaving the Kings. Now Cliffy and Soupy have a chance to shine and convince Quicky, Cartsy, and Drew to request a trade to greener pastures.

#KingsCoreDiaspora

They've all gone to much more talented teams! I guess talent does make a difference

 

[kilowatt]

I didn't know we produced hockey players here.

You haven’t seen all the talent at Iceoplex and TVRHL?

 

[deeshamrock]

elliotte friedman was just on hockey central and said the interest in Martinez will be rising as the deadline date approaches. He rattled off over a half dozen teams that are interested and thinks the list may grow. I guess Blake and Luc can hold out unless some GM ups the ante and they can't say no. He said because Martinez is signed, it makes him more appealing

 

[kilowatt]

Wonder what the price is now on Martinez and Toffoli? Wonder if anyone surprising gets moved - Carter?

 

[Albi]

Someone posted on LGK facebook page that AMart has been traded to the Preds for defenseman Steven Santini (a bust), a 2nd rounder and a prospect.
I hope it's BS

 

[ibleedkings]

Someone posted on LGK facebook page that AMart has been traded to the Preds for defenseman Steven Santini (a bust), a 2nd rounder and a prospect.
I hope it's BS

Long time poster??? I looked over there but didn't see it.

 

[kovacro]

Someone posted on LGK facebook page that AMart has been traded to the Preds for defenseman Steven Santini (a bust), a 2nd rounder and a prospect.
I hope it's BS

 

[Albi]

Long time poster??? I looked over there but didn't see it.

They probably erased the post

 

[kilowatt]

 

[kings11]

Wonder what the price is now on Martinez and Toffoli? Wonder if anyone surprising gets moved - Carter?

well we got a 3rd for Kyle Clifford... how much better would you say Toffoli and Marty are?
Its a sellers market, especially now that Pags is working on an extention in OTT and Kreider was always 50/50 on being traded..

 

[tbrown33]

well we got a 3rd for Kyle Clifford... how much better would you say Toffoli and Marty are?
Its a sellers market, especially now that Pags is working on an extention in OTT and Kreider was always 50/50 on being traded..

I wouldn't be surprised to see Toffoli and Marty get packaged together - should be interesting to see what the returns are either way. It is indeed a seller's market - I think getting 3 assets for Clifford + Campbell is a really solid benchmark.

 

[Little Psycho]

Someone posted on LGK facebook page that AMart has been traded to the Preds for defenseman Steven Santini (a bust), a 2nd rounder and a prospect.
I hope it's BS

Haven't heard from LGK in awhile. Was their source from Taco Bell?

 

[Herby]

BLuc should have a chat with the fellas who have NMC's, see if they want to play playoff hockey for the remainder of their careers. Just a chat.

Clifford #AlwaysaKing

I really wonder what happens with a guy like Doughty if say next season the Kings are in a similar spot to this season (which is looking more and more like a reality). Is there a point where DD just gives up and says, I want to play in big games again?

What a weird career it will be for Doughty, in June 2004 at age 24 he had..

2 Stanley Cups
2 Olympic Golds
Played in 72 playoff games (winning 45)
50 points in those 72 games

And since then, 0-1-1 in 8 playoff games (1 win)

He turns 31 early next season and is on the back-nine of his career.

Just a weird weird weird career for the poor guy.

 

[kings11]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Toffoli and Marty get packaged together - should be interesting to see what the returns are either way. It is indeed a seller's market - I think getting 3 assets for Clifford + Campbell is a really solid benchmark.

TBL have picks and prospects... 1st, 2nd, Raddysh, Condon, 2021 3rd? seems like a lot but this helps them immensely or maybe a 3 team trade ??

 

[Fat Elvis]

I really wonder what happens with a guy like Doughty if say next season the Kings are in a similar spot to this season (which is looking more and more like a reality). Is there a point where DD just gives up and says, I want to play in big games again?

What a weird career it will be for Doughty, in June 2004 at age 24 he had..

2 Stanley Cups
2 Olympic Golds
Played in 72 playoff games (winning 39)
50 points in those 72 games

And since then, 0-1-1 in 8 playoff games (1 win)

He turns 31 early next season and is on the back-nine of his career.

Just a weird weird weird career for the poor guy.

We have appreciated the heck out of him, just like Clifford. But, it may be best for all involved if he decides to play elsewhere. Yes, I understand the logistics in moving him is complicated, but not impossible. This is possible the best chance going forward to move him. Will it suck? Yes, but it already sucks. All I'm saying is that it should be thought about by all involved.

 

[BigKing]

Best part about Doughty is that, IMO, a big part of Stevens getting the job was to make Doughty happy. Then they come to terms with Kovy. Doughty signs the extension the next day. I do feel that two of Blake's big mistakes were moves that had Doughty's contract in mind but now the contract might actually be a problem.

Drew definitely didn't think he was signing up for this.

 

[kilowatt]

At this point, I’m fine trading anyone. I don’t think Brown needs to move and I don’t think Kopitar should, but anyone else would be fair game.

 

[King'sPawn]

I would have been more worried if you actually gave me a list at this time of night

Okay, so to answer your question from last night. Keep in mind I'm not saying all of these players are bad, but considering their toolset, I am disappointed in how they developed/matured (nobody picked later than 2015):
- Toffoli (I know you already addressed this but I'm doing it for completion)
- Pearson (same)
- Michael Mersch (skating's one of the easiest tools to develop)
- Jonny Brodzinski (not as much power as Frk, but his release was phenomenal. There was a mental component to his game which was lacking)
- Mike Amadio. He's rather unique in this list, in that he is the kind of player I expected him to be, but certain offensive tools haven't been developed further.
- Jordan Weal was a victim of being in the Sutter system mostly, but he had potential to be a second line playmaker.
- Brandon Kozun was an energy winger in the same vein as Lizotte, but he played without structure
- Austin Wagner. I still have hope for him. I don't expect him to be a sniper, but I feel a lot of his offensive shortcomings are mentally related.

Toffoli and Pearson both, regardless of draft position, had skillsets and potential to be top line players.

The others just had some shortcomings, some which weren't fixed (skating) nor do they seem to have been identified or addressed (mental makeup).

Where I DO see the Kings lacking, as far as drafting, is picking up players with offensive creativity. And they don't get too many flashy players (Robbie Czarnik was probably the flashiest). But I certainly feel all the above forwards, though they have different issues, were good starting points.

And maybe that's the rub, as I'm writing this. The development staff has shown they do a good job preparing players to be pros, but many of them already have good character. The staff hasn't shown "this player was lacking in this skill, so we worked with him to improve it and make him a top-line player". With Imoo, we knew he was the goalie whisperer and could grow the mental aspect. Ranford lets the goalies keep their styles, but incorporates it so it works more efficiently within the confines of a system.

If you had several forwards, each lacking in ONE of these traits:
- passing
-shooting
-stick handling
-creativity
-awareness/vision
-mental toughness

All other attributes being equal, which one would you say "send that player to the development staff to work on them. They have a history of bringing the best of that trait out of a player."

As it stands, already mature players are being taught to grow up, and I don't think that's good enough.

 

[YP44]

I think I will wait till the 15th to get my stadium series jersey numbered. Clifford was in the running for who I was going to put on it.

 

[crassbonanza]

On sportsnet at noon today, Friedman rattle off about a dozen teams that he has heard have interest in Martinez. Apparently the interest in Martinez has been growing as the deadline has approached, sounds like he might be one of the bigger targets at this deadline.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Okay, so to answer your question from last night. Keep in mind I'm not saying all of these players are bad, but considering their toolset, I am disappointed in how they developed/matured (nobody picked later than 2015):
- Toffoli (I know you already addressed this but I'm doing it for completion)
- Pearson (same)
- Michael Mersch (skating's one of the easiest tools to develop)
- Jonny Brodzinski (not as much power as Frk, but his release was phenomenal. There was a mental component to his game which was lacking)
- Mike Amadio. He's rather unique in this list, in that he is the kind of player I expected him to be, but certain offensive tools haven't been developed further.
- Jordan Weal was a victim of being in the Sutter system mostly, but he had potential to be a second line playmaker.
- Brandon Kozun was an energy winger in the same vein as Lizotte, but he played without structure
- Austin Wagner. I still have hope for him. I don't expect him to be a sniper, but I feel a lot of his offensive shortcomings are mentally related.

Toffoli and Pearson both, regardless of draft position, had skillsets and potential to be top line players.

The others just had some shortcomings, some which weren't fixed (skating) nor do they seem to have been identified or addressed (mental makeup).

Where I DO see the Kings lacking, as far as drafting, is picking up players with offensive creativity. And they don't get too many flashy players (Robbie Czarnik was probably the flashiest). But I certainly feel all the above forwards, though they have different issues, were good starting points.

And maybe that's the rub, as I'm writing this. The development staff has shown they do a good job preparing players to be pros, but many of them already have good character. The staff hasn't shown "this player was lacking in this skill, so we worked with him to improve it and make him a top-line player". With Imoo, we knew he was the goalie whisperer and could grow the mental aspect. Ranford lets the goalies keep their styles, but incorporates it so it works more efficiently within the confines of a system.

If you had several forwards, each lacking in ONE of these traits:
- passing
-shooting
-stick handling
-creativity
-awareness/vision
-mental toughness

All other attributes being equal, which one would you say "send that player to the development staff to work on them. They have a history of bringing the best of that trait out of a player."

As it stands, already mature players are being taught to grow up, and I don't think that's good enough.

Fair.

-Re: Toffoli, they did work on his skating to get him to 'average' from 'bad'.
-Pearson, I guess I just disagree on his ceiling. I'm not sure his scouting report was anything but complementary winger, he could certainly play top line. Not sure much more they could have done there. 25-20-45 is a pretty good statline for a late first. If that's not enough he's on pace for 20g 60p this season. What else is there? If you spent a decade drafting Pearson at the end of the first round, you'd be in an excellent spot.
-Mersch--I suppose. He's had years and years to work on it and he's not doing much more in a different organization.
-Brodzinski--ehh. He never struck me as anything but a guy with good wheels and a shot, I guess that's a good start we could have molded more. Fair here. But again, doing next to nothing in another organization now too.
-Amadio--I think it's a little early to be jumping ship on him. He was a late bloomer in junior as well, where he just slowly picked up truckloads of momentum year to year. His skating is noticeably better, even if his production this year isn't much better.
-Weal--I mean, he's spent more time out of the Kings org than in it. I think most of us agree that his blueline turnover that got him traded was premature.
-Kozun--I don't really have much to say here, the only real feedback we got was from that Futa(?) interview where he talked about a chip on a shoulder being negative rather than positive.
-Wagner--I'm definitely thinking he's ruined. Good one, frankly. But because he didn't spend the appropriate time marinating and was pressed onto the NHL team instead of the opposite.


To me a lot of those guys--were mostly tweeners to begin with. AAAA players.

I'll agree wholeheartedly on Wagner. Good one. I'll split you Mersch and Brodzinski because I was never high on them anyway, but maybe development was why--skating is fixable so I'll give you Mike, brain isn't so I'll take Brodz. I'll grant Weal as well because I think he was a victim of the MOAR GRITZ Kings. I think it's too early for Amadio and if anything he's shown development pretty consistently. I just flat out disagree on Toffoli and Pearson, I think that's all they were going to be and we should be happy with their outcomes. And sorry but I'm not broken up at all about Kozun, that's a 6th round pick, maybe he's 'like' Lizotte, but a TON of players like Lizotte don't get to stick, and that's because Lizotte is the rarity of being a small waterbug guy who is also absolutely unstoppable at puck theft and corner work, Kozun went hard and god bless him for it, he had a lot of spunk, but he didn't have half the possession-recovery and ability of Blake.

I think a lot of what you're saying is fair, I'm trying to rethink this a bit, because like I said I agree with your conclusion. I just still don't think that's a lot of skill to work with. Toffoli and Pearson are the best of the bunch. Amadio is a 3rd rounder, so's Weal. Mersch is a 4th rounder, so's Wagner. Brodz, 5th. Kozun 6th. These are all 'flawed' draftees that certainly needed development but even getting NHLers at those spots is a victory.

However, I 100% agree on 'offensive creativity,' I think that's where the drafting and development is lacking in both identifying and actually molding. And the boldfaced is where I agree with you most and where my criticism about a lack of vision as an org is an issue--what are we working towards here? What are we working on? I trust Glen Murray to teach shooting. I trust Emerson with skating. Who in the org is doing anything with stickhandling, creativity, vision? And until now with Kupari as an example, who have we drafted in the last decade that's really any sort of dangler? All those guys you listed are various shades of vanilla so teaching them to continue to play on rails is easy--but none of them (maybe Amadio at times? Kempe?) ever really took a step away from their 'lane' on the ice. So I guess maybe that's where I agree with you most WRT these players--I think it's one part bad draft position, one part drafting 'stereotypical Kings,' one part development being so vanilla. And that's what finally has me so worried about this crop, to ME this is the first real crop they've had to work with, I think they're all a step-up skillwise from the ones you've listed--maybe that's where my disagreement came from, I'm not sure, I'm trying to work through it haha.

 

[Rooks]

Fair.

-Re: Toffoli, they did work on his skating to get him to 'average' from 'bad'.
-Pearson, I guess I just disagree on his ceiling. I'm not sure his scouting report was anything but complementary winger, he could certainly play top line. Not sure much more they could have done there. 25-20-45 is a pretty good statline for a late first. If that's not enough he's on pace for 20g 60p this season. What else is there? If you spent a decade drafting Pearson at the end of the first round, you'd be in an excellent spot.
-Mersch--I suppose. He's had years and years to work on it and he's not doing much more in a different organization.
-Brodzinski--ehh. He never struck me as anything but a guy with good wheels and a shot, I guess that's a good start we could have molded more. Fair here. But again, doing next to nothing in another organization now too.
-Amadio--I think it's a little early to be jumping ship on him. He was a late bloomer in junior as well, where he just slowly picked up truckloads of momentum year to year. His skating is noticeably better, even if his production this year isn't much better.
-Weal--I mean, he's spent more time out of the Kings org than in it. I think most of us agree that his blueline turnover that got him traded was premature.
-Kozun--I don't really have much to say here, the only real feedback we got was from that Futa(?) interview where he talked about a chip on a shoulder being negative rather than positive.
-Wagner--I'm definitely thinking he's ruined. Good one, frankly. But because he didn't spend the appropriate time marinating and was pressed onto the NHL team instead of the opposite.


To me a lot of those guys--were mostly tweeners to begin with. AAAA players.

I'll agree wholeheartedly on Wagner. Good one. I'll split you Mersch and Brodzinski because I was never high on them anyway, but maybe development was why--skating is fixable so I'll give you Mike, brain isn't so I'll take Brodz. I'll grant Weal as well because I think he was a victim of the MOAR GRITZ Kings. I think it's too early for Amadio and if anything he's shown development pretty consistently. I just flat out disagree on Toffoli and Pearson, I think that's all they were going to be and we should be happy with their outcomes. And sorry but I'm not broken up at all about Kozun, that's a 6th round pick, maybe he's 'like' Lizotte, but a TON of players like Lizotte don't get to stick, and that's because Lizotte is the rarity of being a small waterbug guy who is also absolutely unstoppable at puck theft and corner work, Kozun went hard and god bless him for it, he had a lot of spunk, but he didn't have half the possession-recovery and ability of Blake.

I think a lot of what you're saying is fair, I'm trying to rethink this a bit, because like I said I agree with your conclusion. I just still don't think that's a lot of skill to work with. Toffoli and Pearson are the best of the bunch. Amadio is a 3rd rounder, so's Weal. Mersch is a 4th rounder, so's Wagner. Brodz, 5th. Kozun 6th. These are all 'flawed' draftees that certainly needed development but even getting NHLers at those spots is a victory.

However, I 100% agree on 'offensive creativity,' I think that's where the drafting and development is lacking in both identifying and actually molding. And the boldfaced is where I agree with you most and where my criticism about a lack of vision as an org is an issue--what are we working towards here? What are we working on? I trust Glen Murray to teach shooting. I trust Emerson with skating. Who in the org is doing anything with stickhandling, creativity, vision? And until now with Kupari as an example, who have we drafted in the last decade that's really any sort of dangler? All those guys you listed are various shades of vanilla so teaching them to continue to play on rails is easy--but none of them (maybe Amadio at times? Kempe?) ever really took a step away from their 'lane' on the ice. So I guess maybe that's where I agree with you most WRT these players--I think it's one part bad draft position, one part drafting 'stereotypical Kings,' one part development being so vanilla. And that's what finally has me so worried about this crop, to ME this is the first real crop they've had to work with, I think they're all a step-up skillwise from the ones you've listed--maybe that's where my disagreement came from, I'm not sure, I'm trying to work through it haha.

Yeah, I think this next crop of prospects will be a real test/evaluation of our development staff. Last crop of prospects were blatantly flawed in some areas of their games and most of that being in the skill department. Skating is something that I think can be more easily fixed than something like offensive awareness, creativity, and skill however. And I think when all is said and done, there's really no way to manufacture raw talent. Higher draft picks SHOULD fix that, and so far my evaluation of our development staff is that they're doing an alright job. Our organization seems to instill a pretty boring but professional style of play out of our guys which I think is the thing that's most coach-able. Jury's going to be out on future offensive production until vilardi, turcotte, and kupari make the big club.

 

[fsanford]

I think I will wait till the 15th to get my stadium series jersey numbered. Clifford was in the running for who I was going to put on it.

I would wait til next Fall but that is just me

 

[KingsOfCali25]

well we got a 3rd for Kyle Clifford... how much better would you say Toffoli and Marty are?
Its a sellers market, especially now that Pags is working on an extention in OTT and Kreider was always 50/50 on being traded..

Kreider is day-to-day with a head injury now, so that makes Toffoli's price go up again.

 

[kovacro]

Kreider is day-to-day with a head injury now, so that makes Toffoli's price go up again.

Kreider was back in the lineup lastnight and had a goal and assist. Looked fine to me.

He had missed the previous game.