2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, Dan Cloutier was awesome. Just like Grant Fuhr.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Cloutier enabled nothing. LA gave away assets for a goalie that couldnt stop a beachball and was already a laughing stock.

 

[YP44]

Chechmanek was a better king by a mile than Cloutier

 

[johnjm22]

Given the history of how things went down, I think this can be regarded as a fair assessment.

Dean did a good job of stockpiling young assets early on in O'Sullivan, Johnson, Simmonds, etc. that would be used later to acquire key players for the Stanley Cup championship teams. All of those assets I mentioned came by means of a trade. People were shocked when Dean traded the Kings best forward in Demitra for O'Sullivan. Will Blake make a move this bold? Probably not.

Blake doesn't have a Demitra type asset to trade.

 

[YP44]

Blake doesn't have a Demitra type asset to trade.

closest would be Carter.

 

[johnjm22]

closest would be Carter.

Indeed, and I've been advocating for moving him for a long time but, but it's still a different situation than Demitra.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Fitting that Bob and Jim talk about the draft lottery in Cloutier’s final appearance with the Kings.

 

[KingsFan7824]

And Demitra was 31, soon to be 32 at the start of the 06-07 season, with I believe 2 full years left on his contract when dealt. Not to mention, very early on in the cap era. Although I don't remember what his cap hit/% was at the time. Carter was 31 in Jan 2016, with 6 full seasons left on his contract. Wasn't going anywhere in 15-16, as DL was still all in. You can make the case to trade him in or after 16-17, but there aren't many 32 year old's with 5 years left on their contracts that get traded. Even Kessel was 31, going on 32 in Oct of this year, and he had 3 years left. And, all Pittsburgh got for him was a UFA-to-be Galchenyuk, and a prospect who had been drafted 2 years prior to the trade. I'd guess not many people would be happy with that return in a Carter deal. Not to mention, Pittsburgh gave up a mid round pick as well.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Comparing BLucs moves to DLs from a strategic perspective makes no sense to me. DL took over a franchise that was a born loser and produced a two time champion. BLuc inherited a team that was top heavy and poorly constructed to compete both on and off the ice, with respect to salary cap usage.

Current management doubled down on the previous strategy and drove the franchise off the rails at the NHL level. I think it’s better to compare the Kings to teams like Chicago and Detroit who have similar on/off ice issues.

 

[YP44]

And Demitra was 31, soon to be 32 at the start of the 06-07 season, with I believe 2 full years left on his contract when dealt. Not to mention, very early on in the cap era. Although I don't remember what his cap hit/% was at the time. Carter was 31 in Jan 2016, with 6 full seasons left on his contract. Wasn't going anywhere in 15-16, as DL was still all in. You can make the case to trade him in or after 16-17, but there aren't many 32 year old's with 5 years left on their contracts that get traded. Even Kessel was 31, going on 32 in Oct of this year, and he had 3 years left. And, all Pittsburgh got for him was a UFA-to-be Galchenyuk, and a prospect who had been drafted 2 years prior to the trade. I'd guess not many people would be happy with that return in a Carter deal. Not to mention, Pittsburgh gave up a mid round pick as well.

I agree the return on Carter would not be good and in no way am I advocating moving him, although if he does it also would not upset me, however needs to be pointed out the Kessel Galchenyuk deal was also about cap savings. Pens got Galchenyuk, Oliver-Joseph (who I think will be an amazing get in this deal) plus cap space. They did ok for a guy who if not contributing on the PP or eating hot dogs is invisible.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Comparing BLucs moves to DLs from a strategic perspective makes no sense to me. DL took over a franchise that was a born loser and produced a two time champion. BLuc inherited a team that was top heavy and poorly constructed to compete both on and off the ice, with respect to salary cap usage.

Current management doubled down on the previous strategy and drove the franchise off the rails at the NHL level. I think it’s better to compare the Kings to teams like Chicago and Detroit who have similar on/off ice issues.

Current management got the team off the rails? I guess we’re going to ignore and gloss over the trading of draft picks and lack of prospect development before they took over. That kind of set the team back by a few years, don’t you think? Current management banked heavily on the veterans to bounce back, which they did. They got fooled into thinking that they’d replicate the individual success they had in 2018. But that isn’t what got the team off the rails. That was already set in motion.

 

[YP44]

any chance the oilers do Puljujarvi plus conditional 2021 2nd (if Toffoli re-signs or Edmonton makes 2020 conference finals with toffoli playing 50% of playoff games)?
How would fellow kings fans feel? If the price on Toffoli is in fact a 2nd and B prospect is Puljujarvi>2nd + B prospect?

 

[Steve Zissou]

Tyler Toffoli, subject of constant trade chatter, wants to prove his value to the Kings
Tyler Toffoli, subject of constant trade chatter, wants to...
via The Athletic

“It definitely bothers me because I feel like I put a lot into the organization,” Toffoli told The Athletic on Monday. “At the end of the day, it’s a business. If they decide to move on from me, then that’s the way it is. I definitely want to stay here and be part of what their plan is and I feel like I’d be a really good person to be involved in that.”



“I think I have done a good job this year,” he said. “It’s been tough. Todd has been hard on me, personally. I feel like I’ve responded well, took it and grown as a person and a player.

“I feel like I’m a good professional. Obviously when it happened, I wasn’t happy when I wasn’t in the lineup. I came back the next game and had a really good game and I feel like my game has been pretty consistent since then.”

For most of January, he played on the top line with Kopitar and Alex Iafallo and saw some increase in his power-play usage.

“You want to play with (Kopitar),” said Toffoli. “He’s the best player on our team and you want to play with the best. When you play with him you’ve got to take it and run with it. It’s definitely a lot of fun. You make more plays and have a better chance to creating scoring chances for yourself and the rest of the guys on the ice.”

 

[KingsFan7824]

Comparing BLucs moves to DLs from a strategic perspective makes no sense to me. DL took over a franchise that was a born loser and produced a two time champion. BLuc inherited a team that was top heavy and poorly constructed to compete both on and off the ice, with respect to salary cap usage.

Current management doubled down on the previous strategy and drove the franchise off the rails at the NHL level. I think it’s better to compare the Kings to teams like Chicago and Detroit who have similar on/off ice issues.

Current management got the team off the rails? I guess we’re going to ignore and gloss over the trading of draft picks and lack of prospect development before they took over. That kind of set the team back by a few years, don’t you think? Current management banked heavily on the veterans to bounce back, which they did. They got fooled into thinking that they’d replicate the individual success they had in 2018. But that isn’t what got the team off the rails. That was already set in motion.

Right, off the rails is a bit much. Ok, it took a couple exceptional performances to do so, but this team made the playoffs in 17-18 while Carter missed 55 games. Had Kopitar been his normal "everybody only has to be good not great" 70-ish point self, they likely don't make it. What's happened since Sept 2018, I don't think anyone was seeing that. All the criticisms and concerns were about the black hole, not a bottom 3 team in the last 132 games.

I agree the return on Carter would not be good and in no way am I advocating moving him, although if he does it also would not upset me, however needs to be pointed out the Kessel Galchenyuk deal was also about cap savings. Pens got Galchenyuk, Oliver-Joseph (who I think will be an amazing get in this deal) plus cap space. They did ok for a guy who if not contributing on the PP or eating hot dogs is invisible.

The Pens were also still trying to contend. At no point in the trade Carter debate has it been about saving a little on the cap and getting a 25+ year old who can contribute now. It's been get potential because it's time to rebuild from the ground up. That's a different trade to make, and a much more difficult one. If 2017 is the year to focus on, there is no 32 year old with 5 years left anywhere in the league that gets traded in the 2017 calendar year. The closest is Pominville, but he went back to Buffalo, the return wasn't much of anything for Minnesota, the Wild had to add in a serviceable d-man who is likely the best player in the deal, and Pominville only had 2 years left. You could ask, were there any players that fit that category as good as Carter in 2017, or fit that category period, and I don't know, because that sounds more complicated to look up, and I don't have the energy for that.

 

[KINGS17]

Blake doesn't have a Demitra type asset to trade.

Well he did, then he gave the guy an 8-year, $88M contract.

The question which will be answered soon is will the sand in Doughty's hourglass run out before the Kings are cup contenders again. It would have been a very bold move though. Much more difficult than trading Demitra.

 

[bland]

Lombardi didn't trade Demitra to get younger, he traded him because he was widely known as a primadonna. He would take himself out of the lineup when dealing with nagging things others routinely played through. Remember his quotes about the team he inherited not knowing the difference between playing hurt and playing while injured? Frolov played through a serious injury from the Olympics when he should have shut it down, but Demitra wouldn't play when just hurting.

Lombardi's first acts were to clear out those who chose LA to live the good life and hide from expectations. He wanted highly competitive self-starters, which is why he acquired Cloutier who was every bit as competitive as Quick. The problem was extending him instead of seeing if he had recovered from injury first. He never did.

 

[YP44]

I never want to hear Cloutier compared with Quick

 

[Johnny Utah]

Demitra? Man. Sad. I met him, Visnovsky and Parros after one of those famous Kings vs Ducks pre season match ups which back in the day we’re crazy. They all signed my ticket stub - need to find it. All super nice guys.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Also a reminder that Cloutier was plan B. Lombardi tried hard to get Roberto Luongo from Florida at the draft, but Vancouver was able to swing that deal and took advantage of a desperate GM. Probably would’ve been better off riding Garon and LaBarbera that season.

 

[bland]

I never want to hear Cloutier compared with Quick

Tough Toffolis...

 

[johnjm22]

Well he did, then he gave the guy an 8-year, $88M contract.

The question which will be answered soon is will the sand in Doughty's hourglass run out before the Kings are cup contenders again. It would have been a very bold move though. Much more difficult than trading Demitra.

I don't think a pending UFA that's due for a massive raise is going to get the return people think. Even if it's an elite player.

Teams usually can't afford to retain said player which diminishes their value.

 

[Statto]

The narrative that Rob Blake is on his ‘third coach’ needs correcting. The signing of WD was only an interim signing and was never going to be permanent. It twists the argument and is inappropriately used as a stick to beat him with when it is completely out of context. Blake is on his second permanent coach which is a very important distinction to make.

 

[johnjm22]

Lombardi didn't trade Demitra to get younger, he traded him because he was widely known as a primadonna. He would take himself out of the lineup when dealing with nagging things others routinely played through. Remember his quotes about the team he inherited not knowing the difference between playing hurt and playing while injured? Frolov played through a serious injury from the Olympics when he should have shut it down, but Demitra wouldn't play when just hurting.

Lombardi's first acts were to clear out those who chose LA to live the good life and hide from expectations. He wanted highly competitive self-starters, which is why he acquired Cloutier who was every bit as competitive as Quick. The problem was extending him instead of seeing if he had recovered from injury first. He never did.

Yep. That's why he brought in Nagy. A guy who definitely had a reputation as being a highly motivated self-starter. Same with Calder.

 

[Statto]

Comparing BLucs moves to DLs from a strategic perspective makes no sense to me. DL took over a franchise that was a born loser and produced a two time champion. BLuc inherited a team that was top heavy and poorly constructed to compete both on and off the ice, with respect to salary cap usage.

Current management doubled down on the previous strategy and drove the franchise off the rails at the NHL level. I think it’s better to compare the Kings to teams like Chicago and Detroit who have similar on/off ice issues.

Do you really think Blake had a green light to rebuild any sooner than he did? I don’t. History tells us that rebuilds do not happen in LA without the say-so of ownership it was the same for DL. He then started well by signing a coach that will ensure the best possible draft pick. I’m also not convinced we had any option other than to honour the promise that have been made to Stevens with regards to the head coach job. The interview process always seemed to be a case of going through the motions to make it look like Blake had final say so. Given that promise have been made it was probably the right thing for the integrity of the organisation, if nothing else.

 

[crassbonanza]

Comparing BLucs moves to DLs from a strategic perspective makes no sense to me. DL took over a franchise that was a born loser and produced a two time champion. BLuc inherited a team that was top heavy and poorly constructed to compete both on and off the ice, with respect to salary cap usage.

Current management doubled down on the previous strategy and drove the franchise off the rails at the NHL level. I think it’s better to compare the Kings to teams like Chicago and Detroit who have similar on/off ice issues.

You are right, Dean took over a franchise with a number 1 center, number 1 winger and number 1 goalie in the system. Blake took over a team with those same players in the system except they had big contracts and were on the wrong side of 30.

Who was the biggest prospect in the Kings pool when Blake took over? Amadio?