2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[KINGS17]

Yeah I thought he scored the series clinching goal against Phoenix, but I could be misremembering.
@kilowatt you're point still stands, he scored some big goals for us

Penner definitely scored the series clinching goal against Phoenix in 2012. It happened right after Brown ended Rosival's career.

 

[verbalkint47]

Mike Smith looking for someone to hack down after the goal lol

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I know the buzzer beater slapshot too and that was also penner, jsut different series

 

[kings11]

Havent followed it too closely, but what is with the argument about Kopitar? He's the glue that has held this team together through the rebuild, through the Cup Wins and now...through whatever this/it was afterwards.

Team wouldn't have won without him, but also wouldn't have one with other performances, think about it, LA won both cups without a dynamic, game changing player like a Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, even to a lesser extent, Kane, Toews, Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Marchand, etc, it can be argued that LA was the first or second team (depends on how you view Boston) that won the cup without a bonafide grade A scorer/star player....

From Kane on down, how many could have done what Kopitar did for the Kings under CDS?
I’d bet half would have ended up like Richards.. and to add to that, what would have Kopitar done on those teams where he wouldn’t have had the defensive responsibilities?
Kopitar is the Kawhi Leonard of the NHL... somehow always overlooked especially by his own fam base

 

[kilowatt]

I believe that was 2013.

Shit, was it really? You’re right. Those runs are all just merging in my head now.

 

[bland]

Do you ever consider the flip side of your questions? I already said Kopitar was great in the 2012 and 2014 playoffs.

Would Kopitar have had 26 points, with 21 of them being assists in 2014 without Gaborik? Do the Kings win the Stanley Cup in 2014 without Carter and Williams?

I said it was a team effort. I think with your brand of koolaid Kopitar is the butterfly flapping its wings, and I think those teams had a number of guys who were as important in the playoffs.

There are just some that cannot accept any form of criticism about Kopitar whatsoever. Claiming he was the 4th best player on two Cup winners is accurate, but apparently the equivalent of saying he sucks.

He is and has always been a very, very good player. His flaws cannot be discussed without his fan boys blowing a gasket.

We all know he was quite underrated for years, and it took the national exposure of the playoff runs to generate the general acceptance of his qualities because they aren't highlight reel qualities. He continues to show that he does have those attributes, sparingly at times, and the inability to maximize his offensive talent has always been his most frustrating flaw. Its not a major problem by any means, but it IS what has kept him from being in discussion among the best players in his era. That's just the way it is, the fan boys will undoubtedly dispute it with the typical excuses, but he will not be remembered as one of the greats even though he had the ability to be there.

I still say that if he applied himself with the same desire for greatness, he would be head and shoulders above his contemporaries because of the extras he brings. He just didn't bring the same primaries. No problem here at all, he was a vital part of two Cup winners and will deserve to have his number retired. Its just disappointing that he has had so much ability and spent multiple seasons not demanding the most out of it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

There are just some that cannot accept any form of criticism about Kopitar whatsoever. Claiming he was the 4th best player on two Cup winners is accurate, but apparently the equivalent of saying he sucks.

He is and has always been a very, very good player. His flaws cannot be discussed without his fan boys blowing a gasket.

We all know he was quite underrated for years, and it took the national exposure of the playoff runs to generate the general acceptance of his qualities because they aren't highlight reel qualities. He continues to show that he does have those attributes, sparingly at times, and the inability to maximize his offensive talent has always been his most frustrating flaw. Its not a major problem by any means, but it IS what has kept him from being in discussion among the best players in his era. That's just the way it is, the fan boys will undoubtedly dispute it with the typical excuses, but he will not be remembered as one of the greats even though he had the ability to be there.

I still say that if he applied himself with the same desire for greatness, he would be head and shoulders above his contemporaries because of the extras he brings. He just didn't bring the same primaries. No problem here at all, he was a vital part of two Cup winners and will deserve to have his number retired. Its just disappointing that he has had so much ability and spent multiple seasons not demanding the most out of it.

Almost a week ago I presented hard evidence that what you were saying was hot take tripe and you disappeared.

Don't reappear to just sling some bullshit 'fanboys' criticism to people who disagree with you, especially when the actual facts are on their side. You can disagree civilly if you want to about intangibles (i.e. the idea that Kopitar is wasting his ability not pushing himself is conjecture), buuuuut you were shown how literally wrong you were with tangibles.

Now in my opinion, one of the reasons he isn't a high-octane producer regularly is because of those intangibles--if you look at the past decade scoring list, he's spending 3-4 more minutes per game on the PK than the guys ahead of him who are deployed as true offense-only players versus his hardcore 200-ft usage. The only players that have scored more than Kopitar since 2009 are Backstrom, Wheeler, Malkin, Stamkos, Kessel, Tavares, Giroux, Ovy, Crosby, and Kane. The vast majority of them aren't even seeing the hard defensive minutes--those that are, like Backstrom, get the luxury of playing with an Ovy. That's elite f***ing company and talking down on Kopitar's output vs potential is trash when you see his contemporaries. The guys behind Kopitar? Benn, Seguin, Marchand, Getzlaf, Pavelski, Toews....he absolutely dusts the guys who get the same deployment as him.

For a guy who believes in two-way play and intangibles, you have to be able to acknowledge his output vs. usage, right?

 

[kovacro]

Changing topic...
I wonder if we could land Bokk and a 2nd for Toffoli from Carolina...

 

[kings11]

One good WJC after struggling since his draft year.. really

 

[Little Psycho]

We don't need either of them anymore

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

We don't need either of them anymore

The Kings do need them though. They need to trade them.

 

[ibleedkings]

We don't need either of them anymore

I believe 4 or 5 guys will be dealt at the deadline. Unfortunately we have to play these guys until then.

 

[Little Psycho]

The Kings do need them though. They need to trade them.

Yes.... that's what I was implying lol

 

[bland]

Almost a week ago I presented hard evidence that what you were saying was hot take tripe and you disappeared.

Don't reappear to just sling some bull**** 'fanboys' criticism to people who disagree with you, especially when the actual facts are on their side. You can disagree civilly if you want to about intangibles (i.e. the idea that Kopitar is wasting his ability not pushing himself is conjecture), buuuuut you were shown how literally wrong you were with tangibles.

Now in my opinion, one of the reasons he isn't a high-octane producer regularly is because of those intangibles--if you look at the past decade scoring list, he's spending 3-4 more minutes per game on the PK than the guys ahead of him who are deployed as true offense-only players versus his hardcore 200-ft usage. The only players that have scored more than Kopitar since 2009 are Backstrom, Wheeler, Malkin, Stamkos, Kessel, Tavares, Giroux, Ovy, Crosby, and Kane. The vast majority of them aren't even seeing the hard defensive minutes--those that are, like Backstrom, get the luxury of playing with an Ovy. That's elite ****ing company and talking down on Kopitar's output vs potential is trash when you see his contemporaries. The guys behind Kopitar? Benn, Seguin, Marchand, Getzlaf, Pavelski, Toews....he absolutely dusts the guys who get the same deployment as him.

For a guy who believes in two-way play and intangibles, you have to be able to acknowledge his output vs. usage, right?

I didn't disappear, you have your right to your opinion and I can't change it. But I also don't engage in the internet garbage that makes this board unbelievably tedious. Has nothing to do with civility whatsoever, I just avoid those particular rabbit holes.

What I will tell you here, and I hope this helps with your perspective with my argument, is that I completely discard all of the typical defenses or stat based responses because they really don't deal with the issue at all. Its just minutia that obscures the real problems I have with Kopitar. Its not his linemates, his league-wide comparables, his minutes, his injuries or any of the other normal stuff people casually toss out.

This is it. Anze Kopitar's closest NHL comparable is Erik Karlsson. Be it the "bizarro" or "anti" Karlsson, its really the flip side of the same reason why Karlsson frustrates me.

There really isn't that big of a difference in pure skill or talent from the average NHLer to the star player. All are good enough to play in the best league in the world, for a variety of reasons. But the biggest difference isn't just skill, its the application of that skill. That is a personal choice made to augment your strengths and hopefully lessen your weaknesses.

The best attackers in any sport are always optomists. They believe that the pass really will connect, that they can take that defender on, that they just need that split second to get that shot off. Watch them in any sport, hockey, soccer, boxing, its always a prevalent trait that you see but may not always notice unless you look for it.

By believing that the pass will be there, you gain that extra second of advantage on the defender. And the mere act of believing actually forces the defender to react as though it will connect, which gives you that extra bit of space anyway. McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Patrick Kane, Mo Salah, Sadio Mane, Sergio Aguero, Harry Kane, they all play this way and it forces defenders to defend just a stride or two earlier than they would like.

Conversely, the best defenders are always pessimists. They believe that their teammates may turn the puck over, or that the attacking pass will connect, or that the attacker will havs that extra step on them, so they read the plays and position themselves in advance to optomize their chances. The best defenders always do this, Virgil Van Dijk, Sergio Ramos, Drew Doughty - they always get themselves in to the best initial positions because they do believe that its always about to go wrong in front of them.

The best way to see this is to stop following the puck and start watching the way that players off of the puck position themselves. The best I have ever seen was Lidstrom, he positioned himself so well that you didn't need to watch the puck, just watching him would tell you exactly what was going to happen ten seconds later.

Here is my point. Anze Kopitar has all of the gifts of the highest end players, but he almost always plays the role of the pessimistic attacker. You see it in his positioning, the way his line rarely generates second attack chances, the way he prefers to play with safe wingers, the way he sinks back into coverages instead of pursuing loose pucks. Just watch him away from the puck during the next few games and you will see it.

Erik Karlsson is the opposite, the optimistic defender who gets caught reacting late so often that he is a detriment regardless of the offense he generates. He doesn't play as though things will go wrong, he plays like there won't be mistakes by his forwards, and that he can jump in and out with little consequence.

Its a philosophical question here. I know damn well how good Anze is defensively. I know that he puts up a lot of points some years, less so in others. My problem is that when his team has badly needed an offensive spark, he is by far the most talented player and infuriatingly won't play with that optomistic spark that can not only generate chances for himself, but set the opposition on its heels for the next shift. It is maddening to watch a player who very easily could be dictating the game instead chooses - yes, chooses - to play it safe.

The best Kopitar has ever played is when he would attack and be the driver on his line. His defensive game doesn't even change much. When your #1 threat is the driver you see thge ripple effect down the lineup. The same is true when he decides to be a passenger and let others take the lead, it lowers the teams intensity by a considerable margin.

We have seen Kopitar do both to great and disappointing effect. My issue with him is that he seems to alternate his optomistic/pessimistic approach to the game from year to year, month to month. Its never a question of ability, its always the application of that ability.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Gotta get that trade bait into the lineup and hope they produce

 

[BigKing]

You look at Kopitar's Hart nominee season and he didn't score more because of luck but because he asserted himself offensively. Maybe he's at 30 goals instead of 35 with a lower shooting percentage but you get the point. We've gone down this road before, but you look at his worst seasons and he is under 160 shots in all of them, including the special 2015 season with 134 shots. That team missed the playoffs by one win. He was pretty much at his normal shooting percentage as well that season so, again, it wasn't because he was snake bit but rather because he was the passive guy who is happy to pass back to Robyn Regher at the point for a seeing-eye slap shot v. using his skill to try something that is maybe riskier but also more rewarding.

177 and 200 shots in 2016 and '18, respectively. He won the Selke both years so it seems like he can still be good defensively while being more assertive offensively.

He's on a 30 goal pace this season but his shot totals are on pace for that 160 mark and he's at an 18% shooting percentage which is likely to regress. In the last 16 games prior to last Saturday's game, he had 22 shots. That's completely unacceptable and prorates to only 113 shots on the season. Apply his career shooting percentage--that also includes his current 18%--and that is a 14 goal season. Now, he had six shots on Saturday and, lo and behold, he's looking at a goal and an assist.

I know it is a long season and these guys aren't winning anything this year, but your superstar center and captain can't be that passive for 20% of the season. It's one thing if the points aren't coming but the effort and chances are there: it is a whole other thing when he's pacing at 113 shots. Take a look at his game log for the 2018 season and you'll see a bunch of 3s, 4s and 5s in the shot column. You'll even see a glorious 7 from the four goal game in Colorado. He also had 350 shot attempts that season. This season he is pacing at 274 attempts which would be the lowest of his career save for the aforementioned 2015 season.

I still love the guy. He's a stud. I do feel, however, that it is a valid criticism of his game to say he doesn't use his talent on offense enough. I've mentioned this before as well but the way he plays for Slovenia is f***ing bonkers because he knows he has to do it all so he's just going for it. It seems like he defers too much at the NHL level. That's okay when you have a lot of talent around you but you shouldn't be deferring to Alex Iafallo and, on the power play, Adrian Kempe.

--EDIT--

Just for fun, I checked Iafallo's numbers for this season since I feel he's proving my Trevor Lewis comparable to be apt (I appreciate prime Lewis - it isn't an insult) and, my god, he has the same amount of shots as Kopitar. That just can't happen.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I didn't disappear, you have your right to your opinion and I can't change it. But I also don't engage in the internet garbage that makes this board unbelievably tedious. Has nothing to do with civility whatsoever, I just avoid those particular rabbit holes.

What I will tell you here, and I hope this helps with your perspective with my argument, is that I completely discard all of the typical defenses or stat based responses because they really don't deal with the issue at all. Its just minutia that obscures the real problems I have with Kopitar. Its not his linemates, his league-wide comparables, his minutes, his injuries or any of the other normal stuff people casually toss out.

This is it. Anze Kopitar's closest NHL comparable is Erik Karlsson. Be it the "bizarro" or "anti" Karlsson, its really the flip side of the same reason why Karlsson frustrates me.

There really isn't that big of a difference in pure skill or talent from the average NHLer to the star player. All are good enough to play in the best league in the world, for a variety of reasons. But the biggest difference isn't just skill, its the application of that skill. That is a personal choice made to augment your strengths and hopefully lessen your weaknesses.

The best attackers in any sport are always optomists. They believe that the pass really will connect, that they can take that defender on, that they just need that split second to get that shot off. Watch them in any sport, hockey, soccer, boxing, its always a prevalent trait that you see but may not always notice unless you look for it.

By believing that the pass will be there, you gain that extra second of advantage on the defender. And the mere act of believing actually forces the defender to react as though it will connect, which gives you that extra bit of space anyway. McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Patrick Kane, Mo Salah, Sadio Mane, Sergio Aguero, Harry Kane, they all play this way and it forces defenders to defend just a stride or two earlier than they would like.

Conversely, the best defenders are always pessimists. They believe that their teammates may turn the puck over, or that the attacking pass will connect, or that the attacker will havs that extra step on them, so they read the plays and position themselves in advance to optomize their chances. The best defenders always do this, Virgil Van Dijk, Sergio Ramos, Drew Doughty - they always get themselves in to the best initial positions because they do believe that its always about to go wrong in front of them.

The best way to see this is to stop following the puck and start watching the way that players off of the puck position themselves. The best I have ever seen was Lidstrom, he positioned himself so well that you didn't need to watch the puck, just watching him would tell you exactly what was going to happen ten seconds later.

Here is my point. Anze Kopitar has all of the gifts of the highest end players, but he almost always plays the role of the pessimistic attacker. You see it in his positioning, the way his line rarely generates second attack chances, the way he prefers to play with safe wingers, the way he sinks back into coverages instead of pursuing loose pucks. Just watch him away from the puck during the next few games and you will see it.

Erik Karlsson is the opposite, the optimistic defender who gets caught reacting late so often that he is a detriment regardless of the offense he generates. He doesn't play as though things will go wrong, he plays like there won't be mistakes by his forwards, and that he can jump in and out with little consequence.

Its a philosophical question here. I know damn well how good Anze is defensively. I know that he puts up a lot of points some years, less so in others. My problem is that when his team has badly needed an offensive spark, he is by far the most talented player and infuriatingly won't play with that optomistic spark that can not only generate chances for himself, but set the opposition on its heels for the next shift. It is maddening to watch a player who very easily could be dictating the game instead chooses - yes, chooses - to play it safe.

The best Kopitar has ever played is when he would attack and be the driver on his line. His defensive game doesn't even change much. When your #1 threat is the driver you see thge ripple effect down the lineup. The same is true when he decides to be a passenger and let others take the lead, it lowers the teams intensity by a considerable margin.

We have seen Kopitar do both to great and disappointing effect. My issue with him is that he seems to alternate his optomistic/pessimistic approach to the game from year to year, month to month. Its never a question of ability, its always the application of that ability.

This is a great post, thank you.

You look at Kopitar's Hart nominee season and he didn't score more because of luck but because he asserted himself offensively. Maybe he's at 30 goals instead of 35 with a lower shooting percentage but you get the point. We've gone down this road before, but you look at his worst seasons and he is under 160 shots in all of them, including the special 2015 season with 134 shots. That team missed the playoffs by one win. He was pretty much at his normal shooting percentage as well that season so, again, it wasn't because he was snake bit but rather because he was the passive guy who is happy to pass back to Robyn Regher at the point for a seeing-eye slap shot v. using his skill to try something that is maybe riskier but also more rewarding.

177 and 200 shots in 2016 and '18, respectively. He won the Selke both years so it seems like he can still be good defensively while being more assertive offensively.

He's on a 30 goal pace this season but his shot totals are on pace for that 160 mark and he's at an 18% shooting percentage which is likely to regress. In the last 16 games prior to last Saturday's game, he had 22 shots. That's completely unacceptable and prorates to only 113 shots on the season. Apply his career shooting percentage--that also includes his current 18%--and that is a 14 goal season. Now, he had six shots on Saturday and, lo and behold, he's looking at a goal and an assist.

I know it is a long season and these guys aren't winning anything this year, but your superstar center and captain can't be that passive for 20% of the season. It's one thing if the points aren't coming but the effort and chances are there: it is a whole other thing when he's pacing at 113 shots. Take a look at his game log for the 2018 season and you'll see a bunch of 3s, 4s and 5s in the shot column. You'll even see a glorious 7 from the four goal game in Colorado. He also had 350 shot attempts that season. This season he is pacing at 274 attempts which would be the lowest of his career save for the aforementioned 2015 season.

I still love the guy. He's a stud. I do feel, however, that it is a valid criticism of his game to say he doesn't use his talent on offense enough. I've mentioned this before as well but the way he plays for Slovenia is ****ing bonkers because he knows he has to do it all so he's just going for it. It seems like he defers too much at the NHL level. That's okay when you have a lot of talent around you but you shouldn't be deferring to Alex Iafallo and, on the power play, Adrian Kempe.

--EDIT--

Just for fun, I checked Iafallo's numbers for this season since I feel he's proving my Trevor Lewis comparable to be apt (I appreciate prime Lewis - it isn't an insult) and, my god, he has the same amount of shots as Kopitar. That just can't happen.

And here too.

But at both of you, maybe more at bland, do you think that's because he chooses not to/can't? Because to me, it feels like more of a deployment/usage thing than otherwise. I still feel like that's getting discounted.

Edit: Example--McDavid getting next to the top ozone deployment on the team, Kopitar getting literally the bottom with Brown, plus PK time, etc.

Frankly same question applies to Drew year over year, like sure he'd never be Erik Karlsson/Brent Burns offensively just like Kopitar would never be McDavid, but if those guys were freed from defensive responsibilities the same way that literally the only guys who scored more than either player this decade were, it stands to reason that Doughty would be closer to 70 points annually and Kopitar closer to his Hart season.

 

[kingsfan28]

I know the buzzer beater slapshot too and that was also penner, jsut different series

yeah that goal by Pancakes gets over looked a lot. Really was a turning point of the game.

 

[BigKing]

This is a great post, thank you.




And here too.

But at both of you, maybe more at bland, do you think that's because he chooses not to/can't? Because to me, it feels like more of a deployment/usage thing than otherwise. I still feel like that's getting discounted.

Edit: Example--McDavid getting next to the top ozone deployment on the team, Kopitar getting literally the bottom with Brown, plus PK time, etc.

Frankly same question applies to Drew year over year, like sure he'd never be Erik Karlsson/Brent Burns offensively just like Kopitar would never be McDavid, but if those guys were freed from defensive responsibilities the same way that literally the only guys who scored more than either player this decade were, it stands to reason that Doughty would be closer to 70 points annually and Kopitar closer to his Hart season.

It doesn't help, right? That said, it doesn't mean anything on the power play and it also doesn't explain why he seemingly alternates engaged/disengaged seasons offensively starting with 2015.

Sure, the overall talent level of the team doesn't help but they sucked in the 00's and he was out there putting up the big shot totals etc. Is it an age thing so he just doesn't have it? I don't know...his best season was as recent as 2018 with two of his worst actually coming before that season so the age thing doesn't totally add up either.

That's kind of the issue here: there doesn't seem to be an answer to "why?", hence the frustration. He's always seemed like a guy that you can tell early in the game that he's locked in and dealing and then others where he is just punching the clock. Super honest effort, going to do his job well but it seems like he is settling for what is given as opposed to taking whatever he wants--something he has the talent to do on a consistent basis.

 

[bland]

This is a great post, thank you.




And here too.

But at both of you, maybe more at bland, do you think that's because he chooses not to/can't? Because to me, it feels like more of a deployment/usage thing than otherwise. I still feel like that's getting discounted.

Edit: Example--McDavid getting next to the top ozone deployment on the team, Kopitar getting literally the bottom with Brown, plus PK time, etc.

Frankly same question applies to Drew year over year, like sure he'd never be Erik Karlsson/Brent Burns offensively just like Kopitar would never be McDavid, but if those guys were freed from defensive responsibilities the same way that literally the only guys who scored more than either player this decade were, it stands to reason that Doughty would be closer to 70 points annually and Kopitar closer to his Hart season.

I have no doubt that Doughty would be a consistent 60 point producer if he played a more offensively aggressive game, but he puts himself in such terrific transitional defensive positioning that he doesn't get the benefit of the riskier offensive chances.

What I honestly think is that since 2010 the Kings have been in a must win mode that dictated using their most reliable players in the most important situations, and that the coaches used Kopitar as such. When they were building they had other reliable options in Stoll and Handzus, and I always thought they were over using their top offensive center to a disadvantage by putting him out in situations where they had adequate cover.

When they were contending, they switched Handzus for Richards, adjusted Stoll's role and improved not only their attack but their balance and edge. That's why I will always stick by Richards, he changed so much other than just his individual play.

When Richards and Stoll left, Carter moved to the center and they never found a second defensive option, which only further entrenched Anze in defensive siuations.

I can't blame the coaches for using him. They have a job to do, and the Kings have been in a win now mode for over a decade. But I think its Kopitar's pessimistic approach to the game that has made him so attractive to that role where he would be so much more valuable attacking and leading from the front.

Just to pile on to this line of thinking, when you see guys described as "on top of their game" its almost always based on a more aggressive style. When kids come up and look good, its them playing aggressively. When they cool off, its usually a case of playing it to safe and inevitably being sent down.

Kopitar is undeniably, incredibly safe at all times, but his best hockey is when he matches that safety with aggression.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I have no doubt that Doughty would be a consistent 60 point producer if he played a more offensively aggressive game, but he puts himself in such terrific transitional defensive positioning that he doesn't get the benefit of the riskier offensive chances.

What I honestly think is that since 2010 the Kings have been in a must win mode that dictated using their most reliable players in the most important situations, and that the coaches used Kopitar as such. When they were building they had other reliable options in Stoll and Handzus, and I always thought they were over using their top offensive center to a disadvantage by putting him out in situations where they had adequate cover.

When they were contending, they switched Handzus for Richards, adjusted Stoll's role and improved not only their attack but their balance and edge. That's why I will always stick by Richards, he changed so much other than just his individual play.

When Richards and Stoll left, Carter moved to the center and they never found a second defensive option, which only further entrenched Anze in defensive siuations.

I can't blame the coaches for using him. They have a job to do, and the Kings have been in a win now mode for over a decade. But I think its Kopitar's pessimistic approach to the game that has made him so attractive to that role where he would be so much more valuable attacking and leading from the front.

Just to pile on to this line of thinking, when you see guys described as "on top of their game" its almost always based on a more aggressive style. When kids come up and look good, its them playing aggressively. When they cool off, its usually a case of playing it to safe and inevitably being sent down.

Kopitar is undeniably, incredibly safe at all times, but his best hockey is when he matches that safety with aggression.

Just taking the bold....but typically when that happens, it's because they can't or choose not to, play in their defensive zone, it's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a weason, offense wins games, defense wins championships, you talk to ANY professional coach, and they will tell you, they can't teach offense, but they can teach defense, offensive instincts are either there, or not. You can hone them, you can train them, but if they aren't there, they aren't there. At the NHL level, the difference between superstars, stars, top 6, top 9, etc is a matter of inches....then...when you take all that talent into play, in comes heart, and will. You can have all the talent in the world, but the country is LITTERED with talented hockey players who didn't have the will...that will either prevents a player from being sent down, or being kept up...

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Penner definitely scored the series clinching goal against Phoenix in 2012. It happened right after Brown ended Rosival's career.

Lol Doan so salty after the game.

 

[FrozenKing18]

Penner definitely scored the series clinching goal against Phoenix in 2012. It happened right after Brown ended Rosival's career.

After all these years, I still don’t understand what Doan and Smith were complaining about after that goal and how aggressive they were towards that ref. That goal was as clean as it gets.

 

[Jericho111091]

After all these years, I still don’t understand what Doan and Smith were complaining about after that goal and how aggressive they were towards that ref. That goal was as clean as it gets.

They were complaining because they are whiny babies

 

[DryIslandBartender]

After all these years, I still don’t understand what Doan and Smith were complaining about after that goal and how aggressive they were towards that ref. That goal was as clean as it gets.

They were complaining about the Brown hit the play before the goal. Thought it should have been a penalty.

They were steaming after the non call and then to see Penner end it 10 seconds later in the game....well you saw the handshake line. Lol