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2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

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ToLegitToQuit said:
I am a Timmins supporter but there is one comment I'd like to talk about.. The skating/skill comment and he is not concerned at all about a 150 lbs 17/18 year old prospect. Well, lets look at the contenders.. Skating and skill is there but how many small players do they have that are making an impact in the final 2 or final 4 teams? We need all 3 (Skating/Skill/ & Size).

Skating/Skill < Skating/Skill/Size

Our team is lacking guys like Dobson and Svechnikov. Not guys like Hughes. I understand we can't turn our heads away from guys like Hughes and Wise but we need to be very careful how we construct the balance withing our prospect pool IMO. Our team is so soft it's not funny! I'm tired of us getting pushed around when the games get tight.
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Not that I really disagree with the overall idea of your equation, but at the same time, you have to be wary about the size you are talking about and the skill. To me, elite skating and elite skill > decent skating, good skill and size.

Before I go further, I like Dobson but while he is going to be big player (still needs to develop strength), he's not one of those punishing defencemen. I dunno, maybe he'll develop into a Weber presence but I don't picture him as the guy who is going to make forwards pay in our zone.

Svechnikov I don't like talking about only because I know we're not getting him. Of course I'd like to be wrong.

But you are right, got to be careful about how we build our prospect pool. Just sticking with the size (not mean streak, playing on edge and other intangibles that can't really be measured:

Juulsen 6'2, guessing about 190lbs by now
Fleury 6'1, over 200lbs according to Elite Prospects
Brook 6'1, about 185lbs according to Elite Prospects

Poehling 6'2, about 185lbs according to Elite Prospects

Then we got some AHLers who are well over 6' and 200lbs like McCarron, Rychel and Lernout.

However, going back to our main propects, there are decently sized but we are lacking high-end skill. Hence my point that elite skill (IQ, skating, shooting, passing and vision together) is something we are in dire need of and honestly, first 2 rounds, that has got to be our highest priority. If we draft 5 players under 6' with our first 5 picks, so be it. 6'1+ grinders and enforcers we can get via trade.

I get that ideally, you want skill with size, but I think size (and toughness) can be a priority once you address the main need of skill on this team.
 
Open question to the Kotkaskeptics of the board:

Let's say that we pass on Jesperi for Zadina and that Jesperi goes on to be a 1C in the 11th-20th best center in the league category. How many goals per year would Zadina have to score in order for you to not jump out a window?
 
sandviper said:
Not that I really disagree with the overall idea of your equation, but at the same time, you have to be wary about the size you are talking about and the skill. To me, elite skating and elite skill > decent skating, good skill and size.

Before I go further, I like Dobson but while he is going to be big player (still needs to develop strength), he's not one of those punishing defencemen. I dunno, maybe he'll develop into a Weber presence but I don't picture him as the guy who is going to make forwards pay in our zone.

Svechnikov I don't like talking about only because I know we're not getting him. Of course I'd like to be wrong.

But you are right, got to be careful about how we build our prospect pool. Just sticking with the size (not mean streak, playing on edge and other intangibles that can't really be measured:

Juulsen 6'2, guessing about 190lbs by now
Fleury 6'1, over 200lbs according to Elite Prospects
Brook 6'1, about 185lbs according to Elite Prospects

Poehling 6'2, about 185lbs according to Elite Prospects

Then we got some AHLers who are well over 6' and 200lbs like McCarron, Rychel and Lernout.

However, going back to our main propects, there are decently sized but we are lacking high-end skill. Hence my point that elite skill (IQ, skating, shooting, passing and vision together) is something we are in dire need of and honestly, first 2 rounds, that has got to be our highest priority. If we draft 5 players under 6' with our first 5 picks, so be it. 6'1+ grinders and enforcers we can get via trade.

I get that ideally, you want skill with size, but I think size (and toughness) can be a priority once you address the main need of skill on this team.
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I want the Skill/Skating/Size combo cause I'm tired of being pushed around. Size helps when there is less time and space and you have a long reach as well. Now, lets not confuse this with a McCarron type draft pick. Not what I am saying and I think you understand me well.

Look at the Caps... Look how they are build. They are very well balanced with Size/Skating/Skill. Even their bottom 6 has players who can skate and have size with limited offense. They let Alzner go cause he is not a good skater and has no offense in stinks .
 
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NotProkofievian said:
Open question to the Kotkaskeptics of the board:

Let's say that we pass on Jesperi for Zadina and that Jesperi goes on to be a 1C in the 11th-20th best center in the league category. How many goals per year would Zadina have to score in order for you to not jump out a window?
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If he's a consistent 30+ goal scorer, no contractors will need to be hired by my widow.

But I don't think Kotkaniemi is this guy you all think he is. He probably ends up in the Lars Eller tier.
 
le_sean said:
Zadina/Kotkaniemi is quite comparable to Puljujarvi/Dubois. Consensus #3 passed over for a big two-way centre. Habs tried to trade up for that 4th pick but the Jackets took the player they wanted.
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Difference is Dubois was ranked 4th, Kotkaniemi isn’t

Edit: Dubois was ranked 5th he hind Tkachuk....my bad
 
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DramaticGloveSave said:
If he's a consistent 30+ goal scorer, no contractors will need to be hired by my widow.
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Lol, for a 30 goal scoring winger you'd be fine with passing up the potentially 11th best center in the league? Man, some of you really are gluttons for punishment.

DramaticGloveSave said:
But I don't think Kotkaniemi is this guy you all think he is. He probably ends up in the Lars Eller tier.
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Are you now saying that Poehling is a Lars Eller tier player, or are you saying that Poehling is better than Kotkaniemi now?
 
NotProkofievian said:
Open question to the Kotkaskeptics of the board:

Let's say that we pass on Jesperi for Zadina and that Jesperi goes on to be a 1C in the 11th-20th best center in the league category. How many goals per year would Zadina have to score in order for you to not jump out a window?
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I'm not a Kotkaskeptic but a Kotkagonistic. 40-45 and he has to be a beast during the playoffs. The reason I go that high is because a center of that caliber will make his two line mates much better.
 
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Habs Icing said:
I'm not a Kotkaskeptic but a Kotkagonistic. 40-45 and he has to be a beast during the playoffs. The reason I go that high is because a center of that caliber will make his two line mates much better.
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Bonus points for Kotkagnostic. And yeah I'd say 40-45 for me as well.
 
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I like Kotkaniemi more as a complete package than Zadina, but I'd still hesitate on taking him at 3, I'd rather go for Dobson or Hughes or trade down to 5 or 6 where I'd have zero issues taking Kotkaniemi if available otherwise whoever is available between Dobson or Hughes. I'd rather completely pass up on Zadina though.
 
NotProkofievian said:
Lol, for a 30 goal scoring winger you'd be fine with passing up the potentially 11th best center in the league? Man, some of you really are gluttons for punishment.



Are you now saying that Poehling is a Lars Eller tier player, or are you saying that Poehling is better than Kotkaniemi now?
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I said 30+ for a 11-20 center.

I personally view Poehling and Kotkaniemi in the same tier.
 
NotProkofievian said:
Bonus points for Kotkagnostic. And yeah I'd say 40-45 for me as well.
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Actually, upon reflection if Kockamamie does become that sort of center and Zadina does hit 40-45 consistently I wouldn't jump out of a window but I would grumble and be in a bad mood (and probably call MB & Timmins some nasty names). This team is in desperate need of centers. That need is stronger than the need for left handed d-men.
 
NotProkofievian said:
Bonus points for Kotkagnostic. And yeah I'd say 40-45 for me as well.
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If Kotkaniemi is 11th best centre in the league, ya, I need 40+ goals from Zadina, but if he’s 20th, I need him to be a consistent 35+ goal scorer.

Habs should just make it happen and get both.

It could be other teams are dinning kotkaniemi knowing habs probably want him. They indirectly saying hey, we open for business if you wanna trade for our pick.....

Just a thought....at least if I was GM, this would be my angle....get the habs feeling nervous
 
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There's so much uncertainties with a trade down scenario, I'd really rather just take the kid at #3 if he's THE pick they want. I mean, unless it's just a few spots down and the risk of losing the guy you wanted all along is real low. Getting an additional first rounder AND Kotkaniemi seems damn near impossible.
 
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Mrb1p said:
Lol, Poehling is good and all, I like him and I still laugh at WTK for his hilarious meltdown last year and for how wrong he is, so far. But thats just a ridiculous statement and just further proves that you didnt watch Kotkaniemi.
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Well I have watched him, and did grade him. I think both are 2nd line C types. Maybe Kot ends up better, but it won't be significant, and still be in the same tier. The wildcard I guess is if Kot miraculously improves his skating. If he does, then he could certainly end up a cut above Poehling, as increased speed combined with his reach will make him tough to handle. But as of now, they both project to be big, smart, 2-way playmaking centers with skill. Not quite #1s, but quality #2s.
 
Habs Icing said:
Actually, upon reflection if Kockamamie does become that sort of center and Zadina does hit 40-45 consistently I wouldn't jump out of a window but I would grumble and be in a bad mood (and probably call MB & Timmins some nasty names). This team is in desperate need of centers. That need is stronger than the need for left handed d-men.
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Look at it another way. Who would you rather have on the Habs Ovie or Malkin? This team needs a Malkin more than an Ovie despite what he is doing these playoffs.
 
What happening if we pass on Zadina for a center and the center becomes a 40-45pt center while Zadina puts up 40 goal seasons? The theory goes 2 ways. Reaching for a center in a weak draft for centers makes me nervous. I would draft the best player at 3 and target multiple centers with the top 6 upside in the 2nd rd. My thoughts on it
 
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NotProkofievian said:
What if he never scored more than 31 goals in a season? Obviously a guy who can occasionally put up 40-50 is better than a guy who's always puttering around 30.



Which, in defence of Kotkaniemi, is a pretty ****ing high tier lol.
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To be more specific, I think Zadina has a better chance of being a Tarasenko level goal scorer than Kotkaniemi has of being a top 15 center.
 
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jaffy27 said:
If Kotkaniemi is 11th best centre in the league, ya, I need 40+ goals from Zadina, but if he’s 20th, I need him to be a consistent 35+ goal scorer.

Habs should just make it happen and get both.

It could be other teams are dinning kotkaniemi knowing habs probably want him. They indirectly saying hey, we open for business if you wanna trade for our pick.....

Just a thought....at least if I was GM, this would be my angle....get the habs feeling nervous
Click to expand...

That thought crossed my mind as well. Impossible to tell, though, I think, at least for us.
 
DramaticGloveSave said:
Well I have watched him, and did grade him. I think both are 2nd line C types. Maybe Kot ends up better, but it won't be significant, and still be in the same tier. The wildcard I guess is if Kot miraculously improves his skating. If he does, then he could certainly end up a cut above Poehling, as increased speed combined with his reach will make him tough to handle. But as of now, they both project to be big, smart, 2-way playmaking centers with skill. Not quite #1s, but quality #2s.
Click to expand...

I hope I'm wrong but Poehling looks like a 3rd line center to me.
 
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