2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

[NotProkofievian]

That might be the case but the way the game is evolving, using high draft picks on players with skating concerns caused by past injuries is also a cause for concern and can lead to making major mistakes. Don't get me wrong, I do like Kotkaniemi. I just think there are better options at 3. If they really want him, they should trade down and pick him at 6 or 7, while adding an asset.

My reasoning on the point is that talent wise, he's good value at 3. I'm not passing up on an ubermensch for a player of a lesser caste. There's nothing in the world that will make me rank Jesperi ahead of Svechnikov, for example. But that's not true of Zadina, who I now have 4th (more of a 3B situation). If Jesperi were as good of a skater as Zadina I think everyone would have Jesperi 3rd. All I'm saying now is that there's a good reason for why his skater is where it is, and it's plausible to expect rapid improvement: both because it seems to have a large strength component involved, and because we've already seen it improve during the season.

 

[HBDay]

If Adam mascherin entered back into the draft because Florida can't trade his rights where would he be selected?

 

[tooji]

Skatings is overrated when theres concern about a guy like Kotkaniemi. The difference between average skaters like Kotkaniemi and great skaters like McDavid is close to nothing in a game scenario.

Wat. McDavid’s speed and ability to make top end plays at that speed are exactly what seperate him from being a pretty good player from being a freaking Hart Trophy winner...This sentence is baffling.

 

[NotProkofievian]

This is actually a great example and one of those players I was alluding to. The number of quality of power skating coaches and trainers has improved at such significant level that we're regularly seeing players like Rantanen and Draisaitl improve at a point where they become fairly competent.

I mean, even players you'd think are already close to their peak potential like Barzal do it. Without actually having the hard data, my impression is that its become a common occurence. The old adage of "you have or you don't" seems outdated.

At some point, with the number of competent stickhandling coaches coming up, we'll see the same thing happen with puck skills.

Another point to bolster your argument is that players coming from different national programs seem to have different archetypes. For example, Czech players, almost as a rule, tend to not be as strong of skaters as Russians. Russians tend to be better snipers than Swedes, and Swedes produce orders of magnitude better defencemen than Russia. How is this possible given that all these countries have similar numbers of registered minor hockey players?

To what WTK is saying, there is some level beyond which only the special athletes can go. But to be a great player at the NHL level, I don't think you even need to be anywhere close to that limit, and I would say that few in the league even are. To get up to even a good level is within the realm of possibility for all talented athletes (as top prospects are), not just the gifted.

 

[Stive Morgan]

I've raved about Wylie and Sutter's defensive abilities all season, and I just wanted to show you the lockdown they perfectly executed in Game 1 against Swift Current in the Finals. They gave them absolutely nothing. Both these guys would be incredible picks in the 3rd or 4th.

Wylie is #29, Sutter is #14

 

[Mrb1p]

Wat. McDavid’s speed and ability to make top end plays at that speed are exactly what seperate him from being a pretty good player from being a freaking Hart Trophy winner...This sentence is baffling.

No, its not his skating ability. It's his whole package. What I mean is, you shouldn't look for players with one elite ability but a player that checks the mosts boxes. McD, Crosby, Malkin, Ovi, these guys check every single box available, thats why theyre so great, not because they have "one" ability that sets them apart. Well, maybe Ovechkin and his shot. Anyhow, the difference between say a guy like Gallagher and Byron in game is pretty null. Gallagher has great edgework but aside from that, Byron eats him up everywhere in skating, but it doesnt translate in more pucks in the net or even more pucks on the Habs stick or in the opposing zone.


Kotkaniemi has a better overall package than anyone other than Dahlin, Svechnikov, Boqvist and Dobson, maybe Wahlstrom too.

 

[Mrb1p]

My reasoning on the point is that talent wise, he's good value at 3. I'm not passing up on an ubermensch for a player of a lesser caste. There's nothing in the world that will make me rank Jesperi ahead of Svechnikov, for example. But that's not true of Zadina, who I now have 4th (more of a 3B situation). If Jesperi were as good of a skater as Zadina I think everyone would have Jesperi 3rd. All I'm saying now is that there's a good reason for why his skater is where it is, and it's plausible to expect rapid improvement: both because it seems to have a large strength component involved, and because we've already seen it improve during the season.

Drawing a line between Zadina and Kotkaniemis skating is like trying to differentiate between m&ms and Smarties.

Theyre f***ing sugar coated chocolate bites, stop.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm still waiting for Michael McCarron to be a great skater for us.

I'm interested to see him play RW all year for Laval next year with Bouchard as his coach. We need depth on RW for Laval too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No, its not his skating ability. It's his whole package. What I mean is, you shouldn't look for players with one elite ability but a player that checks the mosts boxes. McD, Crosby, Malkin, Ovi, these guys check every single box available, thats why theyre so great, not because they have "one" ability that sets them apart. Well, maybe Ovechkin and his shot. Anyhow, the difference between say a guy like Gallagher and Byron in game is pretty null. Gallagher has great edgework but aside from that, Byron eats him up everywhere in skating, but it doesnt translate in more pucks in the net or even more pucks on the Habs stick or in the opposing zone.


Kotkaniemi has a better overall package than anyone other than Dahlin, Svechnikov, Boqvist and Dobson, maybe Wahlstrom too.

If Wahlstrom is a maybe, so is Zadina. What would you say is the weakness to Zadina's game?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

If Adam mascherin entered back into the draft because Florida can't trade his rights where would he be selected?

3rd or 4th round

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Adam mascherin entered back into the draft because Florida can't trade his rights where would he be selected?

Good question. I'd take him in the 2nd round with our 56 or 59 pick. Getting a 19 year old (soon to be 20) who has 1.4pts/game in his last two season is rare. He is only 5'-10" but 205 lbs. I would love to have him in Laval next year coached by Bouchard.

What do think the probability is at drafting a forward with our 56 and 59 pick and they get 1.4 pts/game in the next two seasons? And 75 goals in 132 games?

His goal scoring ability and high end skill is what we need.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

If Adam mascherin entered back into the draft because Florida can't trade his rights where would he be selected?

3rd or 4th round

Given how well he's played, could easily be in the 2nd round..

However you gotta factor in do teams view his not wanting to re-sign as a legitimate reason, or just being pouty ?

Anyone got info on Hudson Elynuik ?

Canes fans seem to think he's going to re-enter the draft.

6'5, listed as a centre on EP. Late birthday. Good point totals.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Good question. I'd take him in the 2nd round with our 56 or 59 pick. Getting a 19 year old (soon to be 20) who has 1.4pts/game in his last two season is rare. He is only 5'-10" but 205 lbs. I would love to have him in Laval next year coached by Bouchard.

What do think the probability is at drafting a forward with our 56 and 59 pick and they get 1.4 pts/game in the next two seasons? And 75 goals in 132 games?

His goal scoring ability and high end skill is what we need.

Ya, I view his age and proximity as a positive.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

If Wahlstrom is a maybe, so is Zadina. What would you say is the weakness to Zadina's game?

He's a left handed shooting winger...

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

He's a left handed shooting winger...

He`s not exactly the quickest skater either and his playmaking isnt great either.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He`s not exactly the quickest skater either and his playmaking isnt great either.

His skating is slightly above average but his edge work is very good. As far as his playmaking ability... you are way off IMO. This is a strength of his. I've watched him play all year and I think people think he is just a goal scorer. Far from the truth.

- Playmaking ability... 2nd to none in this draft (Edit: it's a stretch but his ability to make plays is very very good).

- Skating. It's better than average but he don't have top end speed like Hischier did.

I don't think he has any weakness. That's why he is the consensus #3 pick from most rankings.

 

[schnapshot]

Again... people who have no clue what Zadina is about hating on him... not getting old at all.

No, its not his skating ability. It's his whole package. What I mean is, you shouldn't look for players with one elite ability but a player that checks the mosts boxes. McD, Crosby, Malkin, Ovi, these guys check every single box available, thats why theyre so great, not because they have "one" ability that sets them apart. Well, maybe Ovechkin and his shot. Anyhow, the difference between say a guy like Gallagher and Byron in game is pretty null. Gallagher has great edgework but aside from that, Byron eats him up everywhere in skating, but it doesnt translate in more pucks in the net or even more pucks on the Habs stick or in the opposing zone.


Kotkaniemi has a better overall package than anyone other than Dahlin, Svechnikov, Boqvist and Dobson, maybe Wahlstrom too.

Are you serious? McDavid is the best skater in the league, it’s exactly what sets him apart. The ability to detach himself from everyone, to make defenders back up, to go around players in order to get a greater scoring chance. Of course, his top speed can be matched by guys like Byron and Grabner but his acceleration is bar none in the league. You couple his skating and agility with his other abilities and yes, you have a complete, elite player. But saying skating isn’t what differentiates him with other players (E.g Kotkaniemi) in a game situation is preposterous... How many skilled players have declined because of their skating (Perry comes to mind notably)?

It’s exactly like saying Ovechkin’s shooting ability in a game is similar to any player, because it’s the whole package that makes Ovie better. It’s not, his shot is what sets him apart first and foremost. That’s what everyone notices about him.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Drawing a line between Zadina and Kotkaniemis skating is like trying to differentiate between m&ms and Smarties.

Theyre ****ing sugar coated chocolate bites, stop.

If Jesperi were as good of a skater as Zadina is in all aspects, Jesperi would be consensus 3.

His skating is slightly above average but his edge work is very good. As far as his playmaking ability... you are way off IMO. This is a strength of his. I've watched him play all year and I think people think he is just a goal scorer. Far from the truth.

- Playmaking ability... 2nd to none in this draft.

- Skating. It's better than average but he don't have top end speed like Hischier did.

I don't think he has any weakness. That's why he is the consensus #3 pick from most rankings.

It's good, and I think very underrated here, but 2nd to some. 2nd to Svechnikov first and foremost, and second to Dahlin of course. Jesperi is the better playmaker between the two. Berggren is a better playmaker. But I agree with the premise: Zadina is a fine play maker, but not in the traditional sense. He's like a play...preserver. He keeps plays alive, sometimes by executing a very high skill play, but the goal in mind is to get himself open in a dangerous spot. So naturally, a lot of people see it as being a ''non-factor'' which I don't agree with.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Jesperi were as good of a skater as Zadina is in all aspects, Jesperi would be consensus 3.

It's good, and I think very underrated here, but 2nd to some. 2nd to Svechnikov first and foremost, and second to Dahlin of course. Jesperi is the better playmaker between the two. Berggren is a better playmaker. But I agree with the premise: Zadina is a fine play maker, but not in the traditional sense. He's like a play...preserver. He keeps plays alive, sometimes by executing a very high skill play, but the goal in mind is to get himself open in a dangerous spot. So naturally, a lot of people see it as being a ''non-factor'' which I don't agree with.

2nd to none was a statement and I can't argue too much about what you said. It's just not right to say his play making ability is a weakness. He can be a puck hog at times but that's what goal scorers do. However, I have seen him make some passes in tight right on to the stick of his line-mates and it was an eye opener for me this past season.

Heading into the season for the first few games... I was not very high on him. I guess I was comparing his skating to Hischier and it was not fair. But he grew on me as the season went along and I noticed the small things he does. He is really above average at everything and elite at goal scoring if you want to sum it up. Play making is very good too.

 

[NotProkofievian]

2nd to none was a statement and I can't argue too much about what you said. It's just not right to say his play making ability is a weakness. He can be a puck hog at times but that's what goal scorers do. However, I have seen him make some passes in tight right on to the stick of his line-mates and it was an eye opener for me this past season.

Heading into the season for the first few games... I was not very high on him. I guess I was comparing his skating to Hischier and it was not fair. But he grew on me as the season went along and I noticed the small things he does. He is really above average at everything and elite at goal scoring if you want to sum it up. Play making is very good too.

Gotcha. I agree with your assessment. He's a fantastic player.

As much as we're all enjoying this spirited debate, I think this year's selection can only be deeply unpopular if one player is selected, realistically. Even then, worse things have happened than selecting the 10th rated player on my list.

 

[montreal]

Hard to argue against choosing BC, it's an elite program. They get several freshmen every year so getting minutes can be problematic but he'll come in with a high profile so he should get his share. That said, Harvard has gotten a lot better as a program in recent years, going there wouldn't have been the end of the world in my book. The ECAC gets a bit of an unfair rep, even with the whole playing less games thing.

It's only the Ivy league teams in the ECAC that play less games. My main problem with the ECAC is the strength of schedule. The top programs like Cornell etc.. will have a tougher schedule for sure. If we were picking Walhstrom I'd rather he play at BC then Havard as BC will have the tougher schedule.

This past year was a solid one for the ECAC overall. Cornell has a great coach and is usually one of the top teams each year. Union was strong as their program has improved a lot over the last few years. Clarkson tailed off but they had a great season for much of the year. Havard had a good year as usually either them or Yale are up there.

If Adam mascherin entered back into the draft because Florida can't trade his rights where would he be selected?

I would think 4th or 5th round. I only saw a little of him when watching Pezzetta game in the playoffs and he looked small and slow. I would consider him with our 5th as he could boost the scoring in Laval next year. But if Timmins really likes him then I'm on board.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

His skating is slightly above average but his edge work is very good. As far as his playmaking ability... you are way off IMO. This is a strength of his. I've watched him play all year and I think people think he is just a goal scorer. Far from the truth.

- Playmaking ability... 2nd to none in this draft.

- Skating. It's better than average but he don't have top end speed like Hischier did.

I don't think he has any weakness. That's why he is the consensus #3 pick from most rankings.

Zadina is a very well rounded player but lets not act like he is flawless. His playmaking is defnitely not 2nd to none. That is probably his weakest point.

His skating is average to slightly above average. Not an issue but not a strength.

I have no issue with Zadina and I think he will be a great player. I wouldnt have an issue with him at our pick but he wouldnt personally be my pick. After Dahlin and Svech, I think any of Zadina, Wahlstrom, Boqvist, Kotkaniemi, Dobson, Hughes or Smith are good picks. Just not Bouchard or Tkachuk.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

It's only the Ivy league teams in the ECAC that play less games. My main problem with the ECAC is the strength of schedule. The top programs like Cornell etc.. will have a tougher schedule for sure. If we were picking Walhstrom I'd rather he play at BC then Havard as BC will have the tougher schedule.

This past year was a solid one for the ECAC overall. Cornell has a great coach and is usually one of the top teams each year. Union was strong as their program has improved a lot over the last few years. Clarkson tailed off but they had a great season for much of the year. Havard had a good year as usually either them or Yale are up there.



I would think 4th or 5th round. I only saw a little of him when watching Pezzetta game in the playoffs and he looked small and slow. I would consider him with our 5th as he could boost the scoring in Laval next year. But if Timmins really likes him then I'm on board.

Wahlstrom de-committed and is going to BU.

 

[montreal]

Wahlstrom de-committed and is going to BU.

He's going to BC.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

He's going to BC.

My bad I knew I read it was one of them, but couldn't remember and guessed.