2018 NHL Entry Draft Thread (Less then 24 Hours Edition)

[WinterLion]

You realize Bob mcKenzies list is a consensus list from actual NHL evaluators? No way is Kotkaniemi 3rd. But ya, obviously if he's the top guy on your board you take him, I just don't see how you can legitimately say he's a top 3 talent in this draft. If you take him it's because of desperation for a Center.

Centres are taken above wingers every year in the draft. It's not just desperation, it's that time and experience has proven that Centres tend to be the better pick year after year. Even if the Habs didn't need a C, I would always lean on taking the C over a winger... they take a little longer, but are more often than not the better pick.

 

[WinterLion]

No matter what happens = "firable offense"

 

[Mrb1p]

Not when my point is that Hughes is on another level compared to anyone else. That being said, the reason why I'm still torn between the two is Boqvist shot that just blows Hughes out of water.

You know whats on another level ? Boqvist shot.

You know what is not on another level?
Skating, defensive ability, size, passing.

 

[Mrb1p]

Centres are taken above wingers every year in the draft. It's not just desperation, it's that time and experience has proven that Centres tend to be the better pick year after year. Even if the Habs didn't need a C, I would always lean on taking the C over a winger... they take a little longer, but are more often than not the better pick.

And if it doesnt pan out they end up as W, like Galchenyuk.

 

[Genghis Keon]

You realize Bob mcKenzies list is a consensus list from actual NHL evaluators? No way is Kotkaniemi 3rd. But ya, obviously if he's the top guy on your board you take him, I just don't see how you can legitimately say he's a top 3 talent in this draft. If you take him it's because of desperation for a Center.

Without really having seen him play and based solely on free web based scouting rankings (few of which are actually final rankings and most of which came out before the U18 where Kotkaniemi had a strong all-round tournament as a centre), how can you say "no way is Kotkaniemi 3rd" and "if you take him it's because of deperation for a Center"? If he's top 5 on Bob's final list, would he suddenly be a legitimate target in your eyes? I just don't understand how you can be so categorical.

That said, I'm not necessarily lobbying for Kotkaniemi. However, I do like what I hear and have seen about him, so he's the kind of guy I wouldn't mind reaching for (if he does prove to be a reach at 3). He's got decent size, good hands, good shot, good passing ability, is seen as a smart player, plays a two-way game, put up strong numbers as a July birthday against men, and put up good numbers and had a strong faceoff percentage at the U18s. There's a lot to like in terms of abilities, projection, and production. Maybe scouts who have seem him play will say he's missing talent to be a #1 type guy and, having never seem play a full game on TV (much less live), I'll defer to them. But if he's potentially a 2018 version of Scheifele or Johansen, I don't want to not draft him just because thehockeywriters.com and the like have him pegged at #12 or whatever.

 

[Genghis Keon]

Without really having seen him play and based solely on free web based scouting rankings (few of which are actually final rankings and most of which came out before the U18 where Kotkaniemi had a strong all-round tournament as a centre), how can you say "no way is Kotkaniemi 3rd" and "if you take him it's because of deperation for a Center"? If he's top 5 on Bob's final list, would he suddenly be a legitimate target in your eyes? I just don't understand how you can be so categorical.

That said, I'm not necessarily lobbying for Kotkaniemi. However, I do like what I hear and have seen about him, so he's the kind of guy I wouldn't mind reaching for (if he does prove to be a reach at 3). He's got decent size, good hands, good shot, good passing ability, is seen as a smart player, plays a two-way game, put up strong numbers as a July birthday against men, and put up good numbers and had a strong faceoff percentage at the U18s. There's a lot to like in terms of abilities, projection, and production. Maybe scouts who have seem him play will say he's missing talent to be a #1 type guy and, having never seem play a full game on TV (much less live), I'll defer to them. But if he's potentially a 2018 version of Scheifele or Johansen, I don't want to not draft him just because thehockeywriters.com and the like have him pegged at #12 or whatever.

And I mean no disrespect to thehockeywriters.com and other free web based scouting services/blogs (including scouting reports on this site). I love the draft and love getting free information! It's just that you have to take everything with a grain of salt. It's hard enough to rank established NHLers year to year with any degree of certainty, much less to project how 17 and 18 year olds will look at 20 or 25 years old.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Without really having seen him play and based solely on free web based scouting rankings (few of which are actually final rankings and most of which came out before the U18 where Kotkaniemi had a strong all-round tournament as a centre), how can you say "no way is Kotkaniemi 3rd" and "if you take him it's because of deperation for a Center"? If he's top 5 on Bob's final list, would he suddenly be a legitimate target in your eyes? I just don't understand how you can be so categorical.

That said, I'm not necessarily lobbying for Kotkaniemi. However, I do like what I hear and have seen about him, so he's the kind of guy I wouldn't mind reaching for (if he does prove to be a reach at 3). He's got decent size, good hands, good shot, good passing ability, is seen as a smart player, plays a two-way game, put up strong numbers as a July birthday against men, and put up good numbers and had a strong faceoff percentage at the U18s. There's a lot to like in terms of abilities, projection, and production. Maybe scouts who have seem him play will say he's missing talent to be a #1 type guy and, having never seem play a full game on TV (much less live), I'll defer to them. But if he's potentially a 2018 version of Scheifele or Johansen, I don't want to not draft him just because thehockeywriters.com and the like have him pegged at #12 or whatever.

I've watched Kotkaniemi before, not as extensively as I have other guys, but I have a good idea of who he is. From a pure talent perspective, he is obviously below guys like Zadina, Svechnikov, Dahlin, Hughes, etc... all those other guys posses elite traits of some sort, Kotkaniemi does not.

 

[le_sean]

And if it doesnt pan out they end up as W, like Galchenyuk.

Except now I would much prefer Forsberg, who was always a winger, to Galchenyuk, who was seen as a possible centre. So I don’t think it’s the best example as Zadina is better than Kotkaniemi, winger or not.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think the Kotkaniemi fascination stems from posters projecting onto him that he's this years Henrik Borgstrom, but he's not that level of talent.

He's not the same level of player as someone who was playing Finnish Junior B at the same age? Borgström is 3 years older than Kotkaniemi, and still isn't playing in as good of a league as Jesperi is.

I don't know why you even bother to opine on Kotkaniemi. You haven't watched him play a single game. This is obvious to everyone. It was obvious from the second you said ''Kotkaniemi doesn't have good hands or a good shot'' a couple months back.

Just stop. The Kotkaniemi fascination comes from him being an extremely talented player who accomplished a great deal this season, and - here's the key thing - people here saw him do all that.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

He's not the same level of player as someone who was playing Finnish Junior B at the same age? Borgström is 3 years older than Kotkaniemi, and still isn't playing in as good of a league as Jesperi is.

I don't know why you even bother to opine on Kotkaniemi. You haven't watched him play a single game. This is obvious to everyone. It was obvious from the second you said ''Kotkaniemi doesn't have good hands or a good shot'' a couple months back.

Just stop. The Kotkaniemi fascination comes from him being an extremely talented player who accomplished a great deal this season, and - here's the key thing - people here saw him do all that.

I don't know where you are getting any of this. I've watched him several times, and I never said what you claimed I've said.

Answer me this, what elite trait does he have?

I'm not "hating" on the guy, I'd love him in the 8-12 range, but taking him at 3 because he can possibly be a Center would be awful.

 

[S Bah]

I think the Habs having added Bouchard in Laval, should focus attention to some unique prospects with their 2nd rounders & later picks. Kupari[RHC] (I feel will drop into the 2nd)Merkley[RHD], McIsaac[LHD] & Khovanov{LHC] - Having lost most of the year to Hepatitus - A , pretty much ruined the year for him, his game surprisingly good considering the change of countries, new teammates etc., etc., etc. IMHO. Svechnikov's(#2 OV this year, his best friend, whose work ethic is great.) Habs should consider drafting Khovanov, particularly if they draft Andrei. Just my opinion of course, having these two prospects together, chemistry already made to order, imagine Galchenyuk paired with these two gems. Going All In for the High Upside skilled prospects, is definitely how teams find a glut of great players, something the Habs haven't had in decades. Development is Key here, Alex Alexeyev[LHD] is another, this depends upon the availabilities of both Jonny Tychonick[LHD] & Nick Beaudin[LHD] like both of them also. Perhaps gaining a couple more 1st's & 2nd's is in order, no Greed here I have it All for my Habs!!!... Did I mention Liam Foudy[LHC] or Jack Drury{LHC} & Jack McBain{RHC}. Many great picks deep into this draft IMHO, Go Habs Go!!!... June is just around the corner. Dmitri Zavgorodny{RHC} for 2020 phenom LW Alex Lafreniere, could be a great pick, another QMJHL prospect. Players that both Ducharme & Bouchard have watched first hand on many occasions, using that knowledge for this draft is imperative to the Habs/Laval's future. Montreal fans should be treated to these very talented young players, Montreal fans recognize great talents after watching the Richard's, Lafleur, Perreault, Savard's, Harvey, Lapointe, Robinson, Larouche, etc., etc., etc. Beliveau & Cournoyer two of my favorite Habs Captains.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I don't know where you are getting any of this. I've watched him several times, and I never said what you claimed I've said.

Answer me this, what elite trait does he have?

His hockey IQ. Which you would know if you watched him at all. Which you haven't. Moreover, he has excellent hands, a variety of lethal shots, all wrapped up in an extremely competitive package.

This is why the comparison to Lars Eller, of all players, betrays the fact that you just haven't watched anything more than highlights of Kotkaniemi: the only thing holding Eller back from being a top 6 player was his hockey IQ and playmaking. The exact thing that Jesperi excels at.

I'm not "hating" on the guy, I'd love him in the 8-12 range, but taking him at 3 because he can possibly be a Center would be awful.

You'll note that nobody is suggesting that we just select Veleno at 3. So take that ''just because he's a center'' nonsense and stuff it. People are advocating just taking him because he's a center and he's an excellent player.

If you have him at 8, then it's not a reach at 3 in this draft. There are 2 supreme prospects in this draft. Then there's a handful of players who are all excellent, but none of whom have separated themselves from the pack.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

His hockey IQ. Which you would know if you watched him at all. Which you haven't. Moreover, he has excellent hands, a variety of lethal shots, all wrapped up in an extremely competitive package.

This is why the comparison to Lars Eller, of all players, betrays the fact that you just haven't watched anything more than highlights of Kotkaniemi: the only thing holding Eller back from being a top 6 player was his hockey IQ and playmaking. The exact thing that Jesperi excels at.



You'll note that nobody is suggesting that we just select Veleno at 3. So take that ''just because he's a center'' nonsense and stuff it. People are advocating just taking him because he's a center and he's an excellent player.

If you have him at 8, then it's not a reach at 3 in this draft. There are 2 supreme prospects in this draft. Then there's a handful of players who are all excellent, but none of whom have separated themselves from the pack.

Dude, I watched him at the WJC (admittedly didn't focus on him) and watched him at the U18s (where I did). He's a very good prospect, just not top 3 good. I never "comped" him to Lars Eller. FAKE NEWS. I said that is the level of player I think he will be at Center.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Dude, I watched him at the WJC (admittedly didn't focus on him) and watched him at the U18s (where I did). He's a very good prospect, just not top 3 good. I never "comped" him to Lars Eller. FAKE NEWS. I said that is the level of player I think he will be at Center.

No, you didn't, because he didn't even play at the WJC. Embarrassing.

And that's a distinction without difference. The thing that limits Eller is Kotkaniemi's strength. Moreover, Jesperi is way ahead of where Eller was at the same age.

 

[Habs76]

I think the Habs having added Bouchard in Laval, should focus attention to some unique prospects with their 2nd rounders & later picks. Kupari[RHC] (I feel will drop into the 2nd)Merkley[RHD], McIsaac[LHD] & Khovanov{LHC] - Having lost most of the year to Hepatitus - A , pretty much ruined the year for him, his game surprisingly good considering the change of countries, new teammates etc., etc., etc. IMHO. Svechnikov's(#2 OV this year, his best friend, whose work ethic is great.) Habs should consider drafting Khovanov, particularly if they draft Andrei. Just my opinion of course, having these two prospects together, chemistry already made to order, imagine Galchenyuk paired with these two gems. Going All In for the High Upside skilled prospects, is definitely how teams find a glut of great players, something the Habs haven't had in decades. Development is Key here, Alex Alexeyev[LHD] is another, this depends upon the availabilities of both Jonny Tychonick[LHD] & Nick Beaudin[LHD] like both of them also. Perhaps gaining a couple more 1st's & 2nd's is in order, no Greed here I have it All for my Habs!!!... Did I mention Liam Foudy[LHC] or Jack Drury{LHC} & Jack McBain{RHC}. Many great picks deep into this draft IMHO, Go Habs Go!!!... June is just around the corner. Dmitri Zavgorodny{RHC} for 2020 phenom LW Alex Lafreniere, could be a great pick, another QMJHL prospect. Players that both Ducharme & Bouchard have watched first hand on many occasions, using that knowledge for this draft is imperative to the Habs/Laval's future. Montreal fans should be treated to these very talented young players, Montreal fans recognize great talents after watching the Richard's, Lafleur, Perreault, Savard's, Harvey, Lapointe, Robinson, Larouche, etc., etc., etc. Beliveau & Cournoyer two of my favorite Habs Captains.

If you want unique prospects, those are not the guys you target.
- Kupari will be a 1st, he's one of few centers available in the draft
- McIsaac didn't live up to the hype, but also is going to be picked in the first or atleast before our first 2nd. Alexeyev is also probably gone in the first.
- Khovanov is terrible. I've seen him play live, he only goes to work on the powerplay, he's small, weak (weakness could be attributed to his illness) and not a very good skater. I really don't like his chances at making the NHL.
- Tychonick will be taken in the 1st, every year we see the junior A guys go higher than fans project them.
- Drury is not "unique". Nothing special about him. I wouldn't be disappointed with that pick, but I'd rather get a similar future 3rd liner elsewhere.
- McBain is not very good. Not much offensive skill there, likely a 4C character guy.


If we want some homerun swings, then Merkley and Foudy are good. Hell, Zavgorodny is a very smart player as well.

A shortlist for me would include:
- Bulat Shafigullin
- Rasmus Sandin
- Blake McLaughlin
- Ruslan Iskhakov
- Jacob Bernard-Docker
- Niklas Nordgren
- Cole Fonstad
- Liam Foudy
- Ryan Merkley
- Stanislav Demin
- Ty Dellandrea
- Danila Zhuravlyov
- Dmitri Zavgorodny

Something like that.

Also if Jonatan Berggren makes it to the second round and we don't pick him I will be so pissed.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

No, you didn't, because he didn't even play at the WJC. Embarrassing.

And that's a distinction without difference. The thing that limits Eller is Kotkaniemi's strength. Moreover, Jesperi is way ahead of where Eller was at the same age.

Thought he was there, must be thinking Kupari. That was nearly 6 months ago, my bad.

And again, never comped him to Eller so no idea why you keep reiterating that.

 

[S Bah]

Late round picks O'Brien*(RHC), K.Marchenko(LW), Hillis*(RHC), Gustafsson(LHC), Kurashev(LHC), Hutsko*(RHC), Wise(LHC), X.Bouchard(RHD), J.Keane(RHD), Fonstad(LHC), Kotkov (RW), Roman(LHC), Pivonka(LHC). Lots of centers with speed & talent to develop in this group, add Olivier Galipeau{LHD}- Acadie-Bathurst Titan's overage defenceman(Free Agent signing perhaps)

*=Right hand centers- Habs have McCarron as their only RHC ATM.

 

[Mrb1p]

Except now I would much prefer Forsberg, who was always a winger, to Galchenyuk, who was seen as a possible centre. So I don’t think it’s the best example as Zadina is better than Kotkaniemi, winger or not.

Theres really not a significant difference between FF9 and Galchenyuk

 

[The Great Weal]

RyJo really makes Forsberg so much better, I'm sure he would do the same with Galchenyuk who plays with DeLaRose

 

[G0bias]

Dude, I watched him at the WJC (admittedly didn't focus on him) and watched him at the U18s (where I did).

Bro you could've atleast checked if he was there before hitting submit.

And I know you didn't watch him at the 5 nations either because in a previous exchange we had, you posted random game footage of him as if he had a poor showing. When in fact he did everything in that game apart from registering a point.

 

[Mrb1p]

Dude, I watched him at the WJC (admittedly didn't focus on him) and watched him at the U18s (where I did). He's a very good prospect, just not top 3 good. I never "comped" him to Lars Eller. FAKE NEWS. I said that is the level of player I think he will be at Center.

Looooool.

Anyway, to be fair to you, I made the Eller comparison, because they share a lot of the same traits, deceptive shots, big body, feistiness, great hands, long stick, good edgework and and strength.

What went over everyones head is the comment about his intelligence on the ice and how hes always a step ahead, he knows what to do on the ice, Eller doesnt, really.

 

[Garnet76]

I personally believe reaching for players is a very poor decision. Especially at the top of the draft. I also think you have to think of the greater plan. There will be plenty of center options in the 2nd round and in next years draft. I dont want to pass on the better player and goal scorer at 3 to try to fill a need at center. Nashville is a great example of drafting the BPA and trading those assets for needs. The trick is drafting and developing the assets which the Habs struggle at.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Bro you could've atleast checked if he was there before hitting submit.

And I know you didn't watch him at the 5 nations either because in a previous exchange we had, you posted random game footage of him as if he had a poor showing. When in fact he did everything in that game apart from registering a point.

I litterally have sent/received messages in my inbox of links to games. But whatever.

I never said he was bad by any means, he just doesn't have the elite traits of the top guys in this draft.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I was originally going to say he never caught my eye at the WJC but I guess there was a reason for that lol

 

[le_sean]

Theres really not a significant difference between FF9 and Galchenyuk

There’s a clear difference during the eye test. There’s a difference statistically as well.