Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part VI

[Zine]

Like Kovazub94 said, Buchnevich’s comment was a sarcastic attempt at humor to justify his laziness and ill-preparedness. “Barbells? Whats a barbell?”....and then people actually think KHLers dont weight train. Sweet Jesus.

All KHL teams have weight rooms and gyms. These are professional athletes. I mean several North Americans ex-NHLers have said that KHL training camps and practices are the most physically taxing thing they’ve ever experienced.

I cant think of any other Russian who had Buchnevich’s problem upon leaving for the NHL. Pasha was just a thin wirey kid still growing into his body when he left for overseas.

 

[nyr2k2]

Like Kovazub94 said, Buchnevich’s comment was a sarcastic attempt at humor to justify his laziness and ill-preparedness. “Barbells? Whats a barbell?”....and then people actually think KHLers dont weight train. Sweet Jesus.

All KHL teams have weight rooms and gyms. These are professional athletes. I mean several North Americans ex-NHLers have said that KHL training camps and practices are the most physically taxing thing they’ve ever experienced.

I cant think of any other Russian who had Buchnevich’s problem upon leaving for the NHL. Pasha was just a thin wirey kid still growing into his body when he left for overseas.

Which ex-NHLers made those comments?

 

[FJB]

Russians don't need to work out. Zubov was a smoker. I wonder if that's why Messier hated him and supposedly got him traded.

 

[Zine]

Which ex-NHLers made those comments?

They dont say much to Russian media, but from North American interviews ive read, Talbot, Whitney, Brule. There’s probably more if I spent more time looking.

Brule: “Training camp is one of the hardest things there that I’ve probably ever been through in my life,” Brule said. “You’re basically going for almost two months straight, two-a-days, three-a-days. You’re on the ice twice, you’re working out all day, you get a break for lunch and you’re back at it all afternoon.”

Whitney: “We get out onto the ice, and it’s a shitshow. For any NHL guys reading this right now, let me tell you something: You don’t know how good you have it. A normal practice in Sochi was harder than any day I ever had in an NHL training camp.”

 

[Chaels Arms]

Which ex-NHLers made those comments?

They dont say much to Russian media, but from North American interviews ive read, Talbot, Whitney, Brule. There’s probably more if I spent more time looking.

Brule: “Training camp is one of the hardest things there that I’ve probably ever been through in my life,” Brule said. “You’re basically going for almost two months straight, two-a-days, three-a-days. You’re on the ice twice, you’re working out all day, you get a break for lunch and you’re back at it all afternoon.”

Whitney: “We get out onto the ice, and it’s a ****show. For any NHL guys reading this right now, let me tell you something: You don’t know how good you have it. A normal practice in Sochi was harder than any day I ever had in an NHL training camp.”

It's not just Whitney. Almost every ex-NHL'er that spent time in Russia and has been interviewed on Spittin Chiclets has said the training camps in Russia are insane. Like the Brule quote he posted, just the fact that they're doing two-a-days on ice is a huge difference. A lot of NHL guys that played in Russia would try to come up with excuses or reasons to skip out on training camp over there and just show up a week before the season. Part of that is not wanting to be in Russia but part of is also how hard the camps are.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It's not just Whitney. Almost every ex-NHL'er that spent time in Russia and has been interviewed on Spittin Chiclets has said the training camps in Russia are insane. Like the Brule quote he posted, just the fact that they're doing two-a-days on ice is a huge difference. A lot of NHL guys that played in Russia would try to come up with excuses or reasons to skip out on training camp over there and just show up a week before the season. Part of that is not wanting to be in Russia but part of is also how hard the camps are.

People will not believe this because it doesn't suit the "Russians are lazy" narrative

 

[Svenhart2008]

Kravtsov just picked up his first poi t in the AHL.

 

[Zine]

It's not just Whitney. Almost every ex-NHL'er that spent time in Russia and has been interviewed on Spittin Chiclets has said the training camps in Russia are insane. Like the Brule quote he posted, just the fact that they're doing two-a-days on ice is a huge difference. A lot of NHL guys that played in Russia would try to come up with excuses or reasons to skip out on training camp over there and just show up a week before the season. Part of that is not wanting to be in Russia but part of is also how hard the camps are.

People will not believe this because it doesn't suit the "Russians are lazy" narrative

Interestingly, the KHL training camp is a vestige of the old Soviet system whereby players aren’t expected to show up in shape; which is the complete opposite of the NHL.
The extended camp is a means for players to train collectively, as a team, to get ready for the season.

Could help to explain why Buchnevich, when left to train by himself for the first time, arrived in NY in not the greatest shape his rookie year.

Anyhow, back to Kravtsov....

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Interestingly, the KHL training camp is a vestige of the old Soviet system whereby players aren’t expected to show up in shape; which is the complete opposite of the NHL.
The extended camp is a means for players to train collectively, as a team, to get ready for the season.

Could help to explain why Buchnevich, when left to train by himself for the first time, arrived in NY in not the greatest shape his rookie year.

Anyhow, back to Kravtsov....

Yes, please. Instead of arguing for or against a common Russian to the NHL stereotype, lets focus on our top 10 pick who is getting scratched in the AHL. Hopefully he gets it together.

 

[EpicDing]

Yes, please. Instead of arguing for or against a common Russian to the NHL stereotype, lets focus on our top 10 pick who is getting scratched in the AHL. Hopefully he gets it together.

"Is getting scratched" is a little much, he was scratched ONCE and now has his first point.

 

[LokiDog]

Look at guys like Fedorov, Ovie, Kovy, even Svechnikov. Or Malkin. All super strong. Russia is definitely known for weight training. Even Datsyuk had mentioned stickhandling with a barbell and said it isn’t special, every kid on the team has to do it.

 

[Crease]

Kravtsov just picked up his first poi t in the AHL.

How's his body language?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Like Kovazub94 said, Buchnevich’s comment was a sarcastic attempt at humor to justify his laziness and ill-preparedness. “Barbells? Whats a barbell?”....and then people actually think KHLers dont weight train. Sweet Jesus.

All KHL teams have weight rooms and gyms. These are professional athletes. I mean several North Americans ex-NHLers have said that KHL training camps and practices are the most physically taxing thing they’ve ever experienced.

I cant think of any other Russian who had Buchnevich’s problem upon leaving for the NHL. Pasha was just a thin wirey kid still growing into his body when he left for overseas.

My eyes roll when I see you bc you blindly defend anything KHL. it's annoying.

You were so desperate to shield that inferior league. So much so that you missed something incredibly obvious.

I readily acknowledged that it was speculation in many ways. So why did you leap to assuming I was saying that no KHL teams ever weight lift?

It isn't about KHL teams literally having zero weight training. We're saying that Buchnevich clearly was lacking in strength on a basic level in his core. It was a basic hole in his development as a pro that helps point to holes in that league. But he could get away with it in the K bc of how inferior it is as a league. Just like how countless Russian prospects are lacking in very basic things.Maybe this was on Buch. It just helps support the idea that the KHL, as an inferior league, way too often lets players skate by bc of their offensive talent.

It's an inferior league by a very large margin. Taxing conditioning in training camp is nice. Doesn't make up for the plethora of fundamental issues the league clearly has. Issues reflected in a significant portion of the prospects coming from there.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think it just comes down to the fact that the NHL is far and away the top flight of hockey in the world. Unless you're an absolutely elite talent, any type of substantial deficiency will hold you back in a big way.

As you move down the chain in terms of leagues, you can get away with more as the quality drops. Buchnevich with the core strength of the mailman could still thrive in the KHL because it's a bit of a different style and his lack of strength wasn't as much of an issue. If you dropped him in the SHL it's even less of an issue. Or put him in the NLA and he's a superstar.

It's just like star college football players that can't hack it in the NFL. Guy is all-conference in college, looks f***ing dominant. But he has short arms and poor technique, so he goes to an NFL camp and instead of being a guy who's going to have 10 sacks, he gets put on the practice squad. When you are playing with the absolute best of the best, every single thing is magnified.

 

[kovazub94]

My eyes roll when I see you bc you blindly defend anything KHL. it's annoying.

You were so desperate to shield that inferior league. So much so that you missed something incredibly obvious.

I readily acknowledged that it was speculation in many ways. So why did you leap to assuming I was saying that no KHL teams ever weight lift?

It isn't about KHL teams literally having zero weight training. We're saying that Buchnevich clearly was lacking in strength on a basic level in his core. It was a basic hole in his development as a pro that helps point to holes in that league. But he could get away with it in the K bc of how inferior it is as a league. Just like how countless Russian prospects are lacking in very basic things.Maybe this was on Buch. It just helps support the idea that the KHL, as an inferior league, way too often lets players skate by bc of their offensive talent.

It's an inferior league by a very large margin. Taxing conditioning in training camp is nice. Doesn't make up for the plethora of fundamental issues the league clearly has. Issues reflected in a significant portion of the prospects coming from there.

So first early in your post you’re saying that you were not generalizing using Buch as an example and then you went back right to it again? Maybe you should say “inferior” a couple of more times to make your argument “stronger”.

At this point it’s pretty obvious that as a younger prospect Buchnevich didn’t put much (or enough) stock in his off-ice and off-season preparation for the NHL. It is called maturity issues, not uncommon among prospects of all backgrounds. But making wide generalizations about a whole league based on maturity issues of one prospect is on you. But hey try rolling your eyes a bit harder because you know...

 

[kovazub94]

My eyes roll when I see you bc you blindly defend anything KHL. it's annoying.

You were so desperate to shield that inferior league. So much so that you missed something incredibly obvious.

I readily acknowledged that it was speculation in many ways. So why did you leap to assuming I was saying that no KHL teams ever weight lift?

It isn't about KHL teams literally having zero weight training. We're saying that Buchnevich clearly was lacking in strength on a basic level in his core. It was a basic hole in his development as a pro that helps point to holes in that league. But he could get away with it in the K bc of how inferior it is as a league. Just like how countless Russian prospects are lacking in very basic things.Maybe this was on Buch. It just helps support the idea that the KHL, as an inferior league, way too often lets players skate by bc of their offensive talent.

It's an inferior league by a very large margin. Taxing conditioning in training camp is nice. Doesn't make up for the plethora of fundamental issues the league clearly has. Issues reflected in a significant portion of the prospects coming from there.

So first early in your post you’re saying that you were not generalizing using Buch as an example and then you went back right to it again? Maybe you should say “inferior” a couple of more times to make your argument “stronger”.

At this point it’s pretty obvious that as a younger prospect Buchnevich didn’t put much (or enough) stock in his off-ice and off-season preparation for the NHL. It is called maturity issues, not uncommon among prospects of all backgrounds. But making wide generalizations about a whole league based on maturity issues of one prospect is on you. But hey try rolling your eyes a bit harder because you know...

 

[kovazub94]

I think it just comes down to the fact that the NHL is far and away the top flight of hockey in the world. Unless you're an absolutely elite talent, any type of substantial deficiency will hold you back in a big way.

As you move down the chain in terms of leagues, you can get away with more as the quality drops. Buchnevich with the core strength of the mailman could still thrive in the KHL because it's a bit of a different style and his lack of strength wasn't as much of an issue. If you dropped him in the SHL it's even less of an issue. Or put him in the NLA and he's a superstar.

It's just like star college football players that can't hack it in the NFL. Guy is all-conference in college, looks ****ing dominant. But he has short arms and poor technique, so he goes to an NFL camp and instead of being a guy who's going to have 10 sacks, he gets put on the practice squad. When you are playing with the absolute best of the best, every single thing is magnified.

Agree but I wouldn’t call Buchnevich thriving in the KHL He was able to get away with it to be among the best in his age group but he wasn’t nowhere near a dominating force as in a league leader production wise.

He was also raided during the “wild 90s” in the domestic situation where nutrition was not up to par. At least not when it comes to training.

 

[nyr2k2]

Agree but I wouldn’t call Buchnevich thriving in the KHL He was able to get away with it to be among the best in his age group but he wasn’t nowhere near a dominating force as in a league leader production wise.

He was also raided during the “wild 90s” in the domestic situation where nutrition was not up to par. At least not when it comes to training.

He definitely wasn't a dominant force, but he was doing quite well. His final year he would have easily led Severstal in points had he not been traded and was on pace there to finish around 45 points, which would have been top-20 in the league.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

So first early in your post you’re saying that you were not generalizing using Buch as an example and then you went back right to it again?

Let's read in my post where it says "I'm not generalizing using Buch as an example"

Hmmm... it isn't there. I suspect you completely misread something. You also failed to think out this conversation.

HE talked about weight training in the comment I quoted. This makes sense. Because it came up previously.

The weight training comment is something that specifically came up around here bc of Buch. It serves as ONE example of ONE of the ways that the KHL seems to allow players to get by with basic flaws. Since HE talked about weight training I then addressed the comment by discussing the example of Buch. Again, this is simple shit.

If you are going to catch an attitude defending the clearly inferior KHL then at least read correctly and follow the conversation.

Maybe you should say “inferior” a couple of more times to make your argument “stronger”.

It's not meant to strengthen the argument. It's meant to hammer some perspective home since you and Zine clearly lack it. I didn't think it'd work but it made me happy to try.

At this point it’s pretty obvious that as a younger prospect Buchnevich didn’t put much (or enough) stock in his off-ice and off-season preparation for the NHL. It is called maturity issues, not uncommon among prospects of all backgrounds. But making wide generalizations about a whole league based on maturity issues of one prospect is on you. But hey try rolling your eyes a bit harder because you know...

You missed the INCREDIBLY obvious just like Zine did in his desperation to defend the inferior KHL.

It's ONE example among MANY that highlights a POSSIBLE issue with the KHL at a fundamental level. There seem to be quite a few of those issues. Some of this is based on speculation which, again, I readily admit to. There certainly is a LOT of smoke though and you know what they say about smoke...usually there's a fire.

 

[Graves94]

What I saw from VK during the pre season, was a guy that has terrific skills and offensive instincts but lacks aggressivity/hunger without the puck. Coaching and experience (strength/weight training) will help somewhat, but that is something that must come from within himself.

Panarin is much smaller but he's a puck hog, chasing the puck even when he loses it, using his body at times. Every player is different, but hockey, like all sports is not only offense but defending, and knowing to play with and without the puck. That will come with time and coaching, but it will all depend on him and if he wants to learn, train and get his hands a little dirty!

One more thing, and I'm sure Amazing Kreiderman didn't intend this to be the case, but last year when he was showing VK stats compared to established NHL players who played in the KHL, only increased peoples expectations and created a bigger disappointment around here, when he didn't make the team.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

They dont say much to Russian media, but from North American interviews ive read, Talbot, Whitney, Brule. There’s probably more if I spent more time looking.

Brule: “Training camp is one of the hardest things there that I’ve probably ever been through in my life,” Brule said. “You’re basically going for almost two months straight, two-a-days, three-a-days. You’re on the ice twice, you’re working out all day, you get a break for lunch and you’re back at it all afternoon.”

Whitney: “We get out onto the ice, and it’s a ****show. For any NHL guys reading this right now, let me tell you something: You don’t know how good you have it. A normal practice in Sochi was harder than any day I ever had in an NHL training camp.”

Again, it sounds like they focus on mostly cardio, then. That's not at all differing then what a number of us have said. You can condition all you want, but if you aren't weight training then you aren't set up for success in the NHL.

I don't think I ever said that Russians didn't have cardio down.

I get that you're trying to defend the KHL, but I think you're generally missing the point of the discussion.

 

[bobbop]

Is Kravtsov eligible for the WJC this year?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Is Kravtsov eligible for the WJC this year?

I think he’s just too old

 

[Irishguy42]

Is Kravtsov eligible for the WJC this year?

He turns 20 a few days before it begins (b-day is 12/22, tourney starts 12/26), so no.

 

[Zine]

My eyes roll when I see you bc you blindly defend anything KHL. it's annoying.

You were so desperate to shield that inferior league. So much so that you missed something incredibly obvious.

I readily acknowledged that it was speculation in many ways. So why did you leap to assuming I was saying that no KHL teams ever weight lift?

It isn't about KHL teams literally having zero weight training. We're saying that Buchnevich clearly was lacking in strength on a basic level in his core. It was a basic hole in his development as a pro that helps point to holes in that league. But he could get away with it in the K bc of how inferior it is as a league. Just like how countless Russian prospects are lacking in very basic things.Maybe this was on Buch. It just helps support the idea that the KHL, as an inferior league, way too often lets players skate by bc of their offensive talent.

It's an inferior league by a very large margin. Taxing conditioning in training camp is nice. Doesn't make up for the plethora of fundamental issues the league clearly has. Issues reflected in a significant portion of the prospects coming from there.

I’m not defending the KHL. I just take issue with generalizations and stereotyping. Come on, you readily admit your POV is based on speculation. You’re entitled to your opinion, but is not a discussion about the facts better than repeated backhanded innuendos based on Buchnevich? Amd yea , Ok, I get it....the KHL is an ‘inferior’ league. You dont need to say as such 1000 times.

So now you’re saying there exists countless numbers of Russian prospects lacking in very basic things? Hmmm...
Please name all these prospects. The list should be a mile long. How are they different from any other European country’s prospects?

Like I previously mentioned, our prospects, collectively, have proven to be just as good as anybody in the 2-way, grinding, and physical game in junior tournaments at every level the past decade. Its not 2006 anymore. But if you want to continue to live in 2006, well, have fun doing so.