Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part VI

[TheBloodyNine]

I appreciate your willingness to admit that as most wouldn't.

Haha well no use in denying it I was wrong.

I will say though that on draft day he was not the guy I would have taken there (Dobson was my guy), and these latest turn of events are not the most encouraging. If we could use him to get a young NHLer who could be a big piece then I’m not against it.

 

[ohbaby]

Like that he "wasn't sent down bc he wasn't good enough"...yes that is exactly why he was sent down.

Not according to Quinn. Sorry. He said,.. "he was sent down to get top minutes he wouldn't be able to get with the big club." I have no reason to make this up. This is what I read.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Not according to Quinn. Sorry. He said,.. "he was sent down to get top minutes he wouldn't be able to get with the big club." I have no reason to make this up. This is what I read.

You are taking that at waaaay too much face value and ignoring all evidence to the contrary

 

[ohbaby]

You are taking that at waaaay too much face value and ignoring all evidence to the contrary

There is no such thing as "waaay too much face value". Either he said what he meant or not. Making things up doesn't make your opinion anymore valid..

 

[bobbop]

Yeah, I’d rather ignore what the coach says and make up my own opinion. Works every time.

 

[ohbaby]

You may disagree that you're doing it but there absolutely is such a thing. I'm not making anything up. Which I'll explain below

Making stuff up? I'm reading between the lines and barely at that. I'm shocked if you think it is at all a stretch to think that the coach was finding a softer way to explain sending down the kid.

"He wasn't good enough to make it so we sent him down"

or

"He needs top minutes and a chance to acclimate to a top role"

Now here's where I explain what i think shouldn't need explaining but clearly it does need explaining. Here's why I am saying "he wasn't good enough". Let's think about this.

Why would he need to be sent down to get top minutes?

Sit for a minute. Really ruminate.

Is it maybe, MAYBE possible that it's because he wasn't good enough to get them with the NHL club? Maybe? Just a possibility? Wasn't good enough to get top minutes with the big club. Is sent down to get top minutes bc of that. This is not exactly an asspull bob it's basic logic. If he was good enough to get the minutes with the club he wouldn't have been sent down. Where exactly am I making up something out of nowhere here? Does he really need to say the exact words "He wasn't good enough"? Do we really not understand that sending someone down literally shows exactly that? Really?

I mean goddamn if you're going to be rude, snarky and condescending think about if what you're saying is smart first

I agree with Bobbop. You are the one, not listening to what the coach has said and reading between the lines. Here's a take, which you have not covered, which is the simplest explanation there is, for what Quinn has said. He doesn't want him playing 4th line minutes, period. So instead, play 18 minutes down in Hartford, until he can crack the top six or top nine. It really shouldn't be that difficult to understand. He's an elite prospect, a rookie of the year in the KHL. Why waste him on the 4th line? Let him get acclimated to the smaller rink and NHL style of play by getting valuable time (Minutes) down on the farm.

Now I don't know, nor do you,.. exactly what happened when he arrived in Hartford, but there is a thing called a second chance, which he was not afforded. Not when you are scratched in only your second game. Now maybe he missed a team meeting we don't know about or woke up late or what have you. But I feel, especially with a first round pick, you give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and give him or anyone for that matter,... a second chance. This isn't boot camp.

I'm not surprised by his actions. I think anyone would have soured about this.

 

[kovazub94]

I damn sure wasn't rude to you when you came in and started in with me so no bob it's all you. Be better.

You listen to what he says AND does? Not in this case you don't bc I'm talking about what he did and you're saying to only focus on what he said. What he DID was sent the kid down bc he wasn't good enough. What he said was he sent the kid down to get top minutes he couldn't get with the club (probably...maybe...possibly...almost definitely bc he wasn't good enough.)

I've never experienced anything like telling a kid he's being demoted? Really? The horror of that conversation is really that bad Bob?

That is a frightening lack of perspective. I've only watched a kid deteriorate from cancer bc...you know it was my cousin.. but yea sure...you cornered the market on awful experiences bc you demoted hockey players and they had to go work in the mines. Seriously think about what you're saying bc right now your pissy ass attitude that you're carrying over presumably from some conversation months ago is pathetic.

The irony of your last statement

What an incoherent collection of words around a passive aggressive attitude.

 

[9darter]

Good road win for Traktor today, 1-0 at Magnitogorsk.
Too bad Kravstov wasn't in the lineup.
Injured, scratched or sent to minors?

 

[nyr2k2]

Good road win for Traktor today, 1-0 at Magnitogorsk.
Too bad Kravstov wasn't in the lineup.
Injured, scratched or sent to minors?

He was the spare forward last game and barely played, so he was probably a scratch.

 

[Barnaby]

He was the spare forward last game and barely played, so he was probably a scratch.

Not a great look for him if true. Hopefully he can get his game together and this doesn’t turn into a wasted year for him.

 

[NernieBichols]

Soooo.

I know gorts can recall kravtsov back to the rangers.

Once that happens, is his KHL voided? Could all parties get a mulligan by recalling him to the rangers and then sending him back down to Hartford where he stays this time?

 

[Barnaby]

Now, I don't know, nor do you,.. exactly what happened when he arrived in Hartford, but there is a thing called a second chance, which he was not afforded. Not when you are scratched in only your second game. Now maybe he missed a team meeting we don't know about or woke up late or what have you. But I feel, especially with a first round pick, you give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and give him or anyone for that matter,... a second chance. This isn't boot camp.

I'm not surprised by his actions. I think anyone would have soured about this.

We don’t know why he was scratched, and I do agree he should be afforded a second chance. With that said, there are plenty of reasons he could have been rightfully scratched. Did he ignore the coaches? Was he a disciplinary problem? I have no idea, but clearly the staff felt it was warranted. I don’t think it’s right to criticize them without knowing the story. A second chance is deserved, but so is some discipline if deserved. He’s not the first player to be scratched and deal with some adversity. Being a first round pick is great, but you play and act like an adult. It’s not a free pass. You don’t get to just do/act however you want. If your child acts up you may decide to take video games away for a night. Actions have consequences, but obviously you still give them the 2nd chance the next day. It’s a learning experience. If you just pat them on the head every time they act up then you aren’t likely to get anywhere.

It is important to remember that VK is still a teenager. That doesn’t excuse him from bad behavior, but he might make some mistakes. I doubt the Rangers would have invested so much in him if they saw him as a real problem person and the Rangers strike me as a club that does due diligence.

 

[JohnC]

Not a great look for him if true. Hopefully he can get his game together and this doesn’t turn into a wasted year for him.

I’d say it already kind of is.

Traktor surely won’t make the playoffs so come February he’ll be right back where he started in October; uncomfortable in Hartford and not riding any kind of wave of confidence

 

[EdJovanovski]

Hopefully they keep scratching him and he flees home to America and converts to an All American Boy like Buch

 

[Matz03]

I’d say it already kind of is.

Traktor surely won’t make the playoffs so come February he’ll be right back where he started in October; uncomfortable in Hartford and not riding any kind of wave of confidence

Not the worst thing for him, I get this entitled immature vibe about him now. Having a rough season back home might be that adversity he needs. Coming back over to join a good Hartford team on a run, with a couple of Russian already playing big roles (Shesty but hopefully Rykov too), earning his minutes and play, might be exactly what he needs in just his d+ 2 year.

 

[Fitzy]

Not the worst thing for him, I get this entitled immature vibe about him now. Having a rough season back home might be that adversity he needs. Coming back over to join a good Hartford team on a run, with a couple of Russian already playing big roles (Shesty but hopefully Rykov too), earning his minutes and play, might be exactly what he needs in just his d+ 2 year.

That's an extremely rose-colored projection.

I mean, you could be right, but I'm not super optimistic.

 

[Matz03]

That's an extremely rose-colored projection.

I mean, you could be right, but I'm not super optimistic.

I don’t know about “extremely” rose colored, but yeah still optimistic for sure. But this is still just his d +2 year, so no reason to not stay optimistic. The kid hasn’t plenty of maturing to do off the ice, let alone game play, so some adversity here is good. He didn’t have Panarin upbringing.

 

[Ail]

Vitali Scratchsov. Kid needs to pull his head out of his ass. Really not seeing the positives or silver lining for a kid with his talent getting scratched by a bad KHL team after fleeing from NA for getting benched.

 

[Emptyvoid]

Expectations are everything...it's highlighted a lot when I read the Day thread versus the Kravtsov thread.

The way this season is playing out so far, for Kravtsov, is extremely disappointing. He's projected to be a top six forward and this season he is falling flat on his face. What's the context to this season?

He's 19 (soon to be 20) years old.

He came to a completely new country/culture. Faced adversity, didn't make the NHL roster. Didn't get the minutes in the AHL, that he was seemingly promised/assured/hinted at. We would have love to see him dig past that adversity and fight. It doesn't seem he did.

Maybe I'm projecting my own life, but my first bout with adversity, I didn't fare so well. I sucked, it took time for me to internalize it and grow from it. I hope VK goes through a similar process.

It's way too early to think of VK as a bust (not saying people are). I think it's very appropriate for people to be concerned and disappointed.

I hope one of the main things VK improves on this season, is his mental toughness. How he responds to adversity. Good luck VK, at the end of the day, we're all rooting for you.

 

[nyr2k2]

Expectations are everything...it's highlighted a lot when I read the Day thread versus the Kravtsov thread.

The way this season is playing out so far, for Kravtsov, is extremely disappointing. He's projected to be a top six forward and this season he is falling flat on his face. What's the context to this season?

He's 19 (soon to be 20) years old.

He came to a completely new country/culture. Faced adversity, didn't make the NHL roster. Didn't get the minutes in the AHL, that he was seemingly promised/assured/hinted at. We would have love to see him dig past that adversity and fight. It doesn't seem he did.

Maybe I'm projecting my own life, but my first bout with adversity, I didn't fare so well. I sucked, it took time for me to internalize it and grow from it. I hope VK goes through a similar process.

It's way too early to think of VK as a bust (not saying people are). I think it's very appropriate for people to be concerned and disappointed.

I hope one of the main things VK improves on this season, is his mental toughness. How he responds to adversity. Good luck VK, at the end of the day, we're all rooting for you.

What makes you think that minutes in Hartford, or anywhere else, were promised/assured/hinted at?

 

[ohbaby]

He wasn't good enough for the role they wanted for him. I really don't think this is even much of a stretch. I haven't seen anyone show differently. We weren't saving an elc which is the only case a kid who seems good enough is still sent down that I can think of

So i disagree, I get why you want to take the coaches exact words but I just see so much evidence that tells me that he was telling a half truth for a good reason and I think it's wrong to ignore all that evidence

Honestly I haven't followed the conservation between you and Bobbop, so I won't comment on it. But I did agree with what you quoted him saying,... "Yeah, I’d rather ignore what the coach says and make up my own opinion." Cause this is what you did. And still you haven't acknowledged what Quinn meant in sending him down is even a possibility (not playing 4th line minutes).

But in reality you really don't disagree as you say you do,... otherwise you would not have said, "He wasn't good enough for the role they wanted for him". This is in direct conflict of your position. Cause in that one sentence/statement, you acknowledge that it was possible he could have stayed in another role. Just as the coach relayed to him and to the press.

Your position is also not supported by the evidence. You keep mentioning this evidence to the contrary, but as of yet, have not seen from you. Whereas I have stated fully the events that occurred in detail.

And I don't know why you reply to me about your likes or your opinion of being presumed a devil. I hold no ill will and don't see you as such. And if you want to make a little apology, maybe it should be directed to the one you offended? Just saying..

 

[ohbaby]

Good road win for Traktor today, 1-0 at Magnitogorsk.
Too bad Kravstov wasn't in the lineup.
Injured, scratched or sent to minors?

I was curious seeing he played a game in the minors. You think he was sent down or that game was before he joined the big club? I can't tell.

 

[Kovalev27]

Scratched now? wow. What a disaster

 

[nyr2k2]

Eh I feel like it's splitting hairs. Every guy has a role he's suited for and if he's not good enough to make it in that role, then he doesn't play. Like if Artemi Panarin was half the player he is, but played the same game, he wouldn't be suited for a fourth line role. And he wouldn't be good enough for a top nine role. So he wouldn't be playing. Vitali Kravtsov does not have the game to be successful in a fourth line, grinding capacity. That was never a realistic option for him. Either he was good enough to make the top nine as a scoring winger or he'd be in Hartford. I think that's what @shinchanuuhh is getting at and he's not wrong.

He's a specific type of player and he wasn't good enough in that role to make the NHL. He's not Lias Andersson, who can at least play a reasonable fourth line game while he's being ineffective offensively. And he's probably not going to transform himself into Valeri Nichuskin, either. So either he's "good" enough to make it as a top nine player, or he's not good enough. He wasn't good enough at the start of the year--which, given he's 19, isn't a big deal.

 

[nyr2k2]

I was curious seeing he played a game in the minors. You think he was sent down or that game was before he joined the big club? I can't tell.

That was when the KHL was on an international break, they sent him down to play a game rather than sitting around for over a week. Just like when we send guys down to Hartford when we have a bye week or other extended downtime.