Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part V

[chosen]

Hughes is universally thought of as having the higher ceiling. And that still does not mean that a player who will be 18 until February will instantly be top 6.

Yeah, right. Hughes won't be top 6, immediately.

Maybe both Hughes and Kakko will be checking forwards this season.

I hope Kakko beats out Strome for a top 6 position.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Yeah, right. Hughes won't be top 6, immediately.

Maybe both Hughes and Kakko will be checking forwards this season.

I hope Kakko beats out Strome for a top 6 position.

Kakko is just as much of a plug and play forward prospect that I've ever seen.

He may start the year on the 2nd line and see some time on the 3rd line when Quinn wants to balance the lines. I'd wager he's on the 1st line by the end of the season.

 

[Irishguy42]

Kakko is just as much of a plug and play forward prospect that I've ever seen.

He may start the year on the 2nd line and see some time on the 3rd line when Quinn wants to balance the lines. I'd wager he's on the 1st line by the end of the season.

He's definitely getting top line duties at some point.

Kakko plans to help Rangers right away after being picked second in Draft

Quinn said he doesn't want to put any extra pressure on Kakko. However, he said he's been envisioning Kakko playing on the right side of center Mika Zibanejad on the Rangers' top line.

"I've looked at that without question," Quinn said. "Mika said he's going to start learning Finnish. He does speak Finnish, but he's going to brush up on his Finnish."

 

[True Blue]

Yeah, right. Hughes won't be top 6, immediately.

Maybe both Hughes and Kakko will be checking forwards this season.

I hope Kakko beats out Strome for a top 6 position.

Wow. Astute. Totally nailed the point I was making.

 

[True Blue]

I've thought this perception rather amusing after seeing them at the @Worlds. Hughes has dominated juniors since like forever but struggled vs older competition (WJC & WHC). Before the men's tournament, teams' scouts stated that the gap was razor thin, but immediately once the games begun it was pretty transparent that Kakko was just on a different level. So Hughes would first have to reach where KK currently is just to get even, then train hard as heck to get ahead, but at the same time Kakko's development would have to stall. In the long run anything is possible I suppose but mostly I think much of that "ultimate ceiling" talk is based on Hughes being touted as #1 for ages and I wouldn't exclude the nationality as well as the exposure out of that equation either. Basically they're expecting Hughes to build up to his frame cause he's small. Then again when I saw Kakko's dad for the first time and really looked into Kakko's current physical frame, I would argue that it's going to be him who's going to "grow" more.

Just curious. Are you a Rangers fan or just a Kakko fan who has come to post here?

You DO know that Hughes is universally regarded as the higher ceiling prospect, right? Beat your head against the wall all you want and scream that Hughes needs to get to a level that Kakko is currently on. That changes NOTHING about the way either are perceived by professionals.

With that said how long ahead does Kravtsov look like in physical development? Didn't watch KHL pretty much at all last year so outside from the clips I saw from the development camp I've really not paid much attention to him. He does look kinda huge on the skates at least. Speed (& skill) and size, just where the league is heading.

How does Kravstov factor into the Hughes/Kakko discussion?

He did look ready at the camp (though got to remember this was development camp) and I would imagine Kratsov's skillset transitioning pretty well into the small rink if the core strength is there. Could very well be possible for both of these kids to play top 6 come New Years at latest.

They might and I hope they do. Then again, they might not. History tells you that there is a far greater chance of the latter than the former. If I were drawing up plans, I would depend more on what history tells you regarding such young prospects as opposed to what I hope will be. Real results are based on real play. Not EA sports.

 

[True Blue]

Over the past two seasons, Panarin had the ability to play with some pretty good centers, someone like Matt Duchene for example, but he was put on a line with a highly skilled young center, Pierre Luc Dubois. Clearly, that didn't impact his production.

Let's boil this down to reality. Please answer these questions:
1) Do you truly believe that Quinn will demote ZBad to a 2nd line center role?
2) Do you believe that the Rangers signed Panarin to $11.6m to be a second line player?

 

[GAGLine]

Just curious. Are you a Rangers fan or just a Kakko fan who has come to post here?

You DO know that Hughes is universally regarded as the higher ceiling prospect, right?

Kakko is universally regarded as the more NHL-ready prospect, so I don't really get your point. Of the 2, Kakko is much more likely to be a top 6 player this year.

Let's boil this down to reality. Please answer these questions:
1) Do you truly believe that Quinn will demote ZBad to a 2nd line center role?
2) Do you believe that the Rangers signed Panarin to $11.6m to be a second line player?

I think you are putting way too much emphasis on what line people play on. Lines get juggled all the time by every coach. There's zero chance that Panarin and Zib are going to play every shift of every game together. Just because a guy plays on the 2nd line doesn't mean he is going to get less time.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Let's boil this down to reality. Please answer these questions:
1) Do you truly believe that Quinn will demote ZBad to a 2nd line center role?
2) Do you believe that the Rangers signed Panarin to $11.6m to be a second line player?

Do you really believe they’ll look at it like that? Or do you think there’s no chance they won’t get the same amount of minutes on separate lines?

 

[bleedblue94]

So you have effectively made our top line center a second line center or our top line wing a second line wing? You have also given your $11.6m wing a 19 year old center? This truly makes sense to you?

They did not pay Panarin for him to be a second line player. Nor is Quinn going to take his current border line elite top line center and demote him to the second line. Sorry, byut that's nonsense. You brought a top line player to play with another top line player. Full stop. Together, the are going to form a top line that will play the lion's share of the minutes and not thrust kids into roles that they are not ready for.

You also have no idea if the Rangers see Chytil as center or wing.

Why jump and just dismiss this as no possibility? Not all successful teams load all their top players on one line consistantly (sure in spurts), and for the sake of developing all the youth we have at forward it would make sense to spread out elite offensive options at even strength so these kids have established talent to play with and develop them. You say a zib pan pairing would be to ensure kids are not thrust into rolls they aren't ready for, yet i question where you see a balance of veteran presence that can also assist in developing the offensive game of these kids and take the offensive pressure off kids to drive the 2 and 3 lines if we take the vets and stack them together on the 1 line?

I personally don't see them together at even strength in a situation that has balance and is designed to develop the offense at this level of the other kids, especially if CK is dealt as most believe he will be.

And for years we are loaded with lhs wings and lhs centers and everyone complains. Then we get a trigger happy rhs center to complement all the lhs wings and it works. Now suddenly we get another dynamic offensive player that can carry his own line as a rhs lw and we are pairing him with that rhs center? Doesn't make sense but we are all just armchair gms

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Let's boil this down to reality. Please answer these questions:
1) Do you truly believe that Quinn will demote ZBad to a 2nd line center role?
2) Do you believe that the Rangers signed Panarin to $11.6m to be a second line player?

They say there is no such thing as a bad question...but these are truly awful questions.

 

[romba]

All combos will up being tried and used at different points this season to find what works best

 

[JimmyG89]

Let's boil this down to reality. Please answer these questions:
1) Do you truly believe that Quinn will demote ZBad to a 2nd line center role?
2) Do you believe that the Rangers signed Panarin to $11.6m to be a second line player?

They signed him to be the best forward on the team and the best player on his line. He's likely to do that.

If he plays with an emerging center or Zibanejad, who cares.

 

[kelsier]

Just curious. Are you a Rangers fan or just a Kakko fan who has come to post here?

You DO know that Hughes is universally regarded as the higher ceiling prospect, right? Beat your head against the wall all you want and scream that Hughes needs to get to a level that Kakko is currently on. That changes NOTHING about the way either are perceived by professionals.

How does Kravstov factor into the Hughes/Kakko discussion?

They might and I hope they do. Then again, they might not. History tells you that there is a far greater chance of the latter than the former. If I were drawing up plans, I would depend more on what history tells you regarding such young prospects as opposed to what I hope will be. Real results are based on real play. Not EA sports.

Oh I'm absolutely a Kakko fan who's abound to watch a lot of NYR games come 19-20. The NYR was my favourite franchise while growing up and I still got hundreds after hundreds of hockey cards stacked down in my closet about Messier and other 90s Rangers players. That was back then of course and once the country didn't really have much stars during the post prime Selänne & Koivu era I more or less stopped paying attention to the league. I don't really have any favourite teams domestically or internationally speaking, but I do find myself rooting for the teams that I do watch thanks to my favourite players playing there.

As far as the Hughes "universally having the higher ceiling" matter is concerned I thought I pretty much already explained my take on the matter and I'm definitely not losing any sleep over it. Although I'm definitely looking forward to seeing this "superior ceiling" materialize in the real world against the best players in the world and see how that reflects in comparison to Kakko. If no better reason than just to see if the pro's got it right or if this turned into just another year when they didn't. I don't really care who believes in what since no one can accurately predict what's going to happen in the next 5-10 years. Just like the discussion we had about Kakko's position in the long run. At the end of the day I tend to trust my own eyes more than I trust a reviews or reports made by someone else.

How does it relate to Kratsov? I suppose you missed out on what I had already addressed to. I was talking about having room for physical growth since Kakko definitely isn't all that close to being there yet even though a lot of his game looks refined & mature as if he had already come close to the pinnacle (which clearly he hasn't), hence the inquiry for the deeper insight for those that have actually followed up on Kratsov post draft and have deeper fundamental understanding about his development in that regard.

Not really sure what you're trying to say in the last paragraph. There was no "former or latter" there, I just stated that considering the showcases from both of these kids in the camp including all the other data/information we have about them, there's a good chance of seeing them both play in the top six without having to wait until 20-21. Which has absolutely nothing to do with EA Sports or any other imaginary or computer animated hockey figures or stats (lost interest after NHL 1995 anyway).

 

[Inferno]

I would not be surprised at all if panarin and zibanejad play on different lines after all Is said and done.

If kreider is dealt I'd probably run these lines of it were me...

Kakko/buch zibenajd kakko/buch (whoever is better on the left)

Panarin chytil kravtsov

Namestnikov strome lemieux

Lias' howden fasth

 

[True Blue]

Do you really believe they’ll look at it like that? Or do you think there’s no chance they won’t get the same amount of minutes on separate lines?

I truly believe they will spend some time on seperate lines. I also truly believe that yes, they look at it as the fact that ZBad is the top line center and Panarin is the top line wing and that they will spend the majority of the season playing together, unless they have absolutely nothing going for a long time after playing together.

 

[True Blue]

Kakko is universally regarded as the more NHL-ready prospect, so I don't really get your point. Of the 2, Kakko is much more likely to be a top 6 player this year.

I understand and do not disagree. However, that is not what he poster and I are going back and forth. He seems to think that Kakko is the better prospect full stop. Nowhere do I not agree that Kakko is the more NHL ready prospect right now and may be for a few years. I do believe that Hughes it the better prospect with the higher ceiling.

I think you are putting way too much emphasis on what line people play on. Lines get juggled all the time by every coach. There's zero chance that Panarin and Zib are going to play every shift of every game together. Just because a guy plays on the 2nd line doesn't mean he is going to get less time.

Of course they are not going to play every shift of every game together. But I believe that the majority of the season will be spent on the same line.

 

[True Blue]

They say there is no such thing as a bad question...but these are truly awful questions.

That is not really answering the question.

 

[True Blue]

Why jump and just dismiss this as no possibility? Not all successful teams load all their top players on one line consistantly (sure in spurts), and for the sake of developing all the youth we have at forward it would make sense to spread out elite offensive options at even strength so these kids have established talent to play with and develop them. You say a zib pan pairing would be to ensure kids are not thrust into rolls they aren't ready for, yet i question where you see a balance of veteran presence that can also assist in developing the offensive game of these kids and take the offensive pressure off kids to drive the 2 and 3 lines if we take the vets and stack them together on the 1 line?

Have you seen the Avalanche top line from this past year? The top line gets top minutes. One of the points that people have been touting is that getting a player like Panarin enables for the Rangers to continue to develop kids by not having them thrust into roles that they are not ready for. Now, to spread scoring around, we are going to put ZBad on the second line and promote Chytil or Howden to center Panarin on the first? Or put Panarin on the second and have Kravstov play the top line role? Doesn't that fly right into the fact of letting the kids develop at their own rate?

You could be right. But my gut says that Panarin was brought here with the thought of being on ZBad's line. Not one centered by Chytil or Howden.

 

[True Blue]

They signed him to be the best forward on the team and the best player on his line. He's likely to do that.

If he plays with an emerging center or Zibanejad, who cares.

What gives him the best chance to be such a player? Playing on a line centered by ZBad or one by Chytil or Howden? Or do you believe his production will be the same no matter what? Or was he not brought here to maximize production?

As for "who cares", frankly anyone that was pounding the table that by signing such a player it relieves pressure from playing in a role that they are not ready for. Or does merely playing on a line with Panarin mean that you are ready for any such role?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

That is not really answering the question.

The answer is that sometimes really good players play on the “2nd line”. Was Toews a 2nd line center when Kane was playing with Anisimov and Panarin?

 

[True Blue]

Not really sure what you're trying to say in the last paragraph. There was no "former or latter" there, I just stated that considering the showcases from both of these kids in the camp including all the other data/information we have about them, there's a good chance of seeing them both play in the top six without having to wait until 20-21. Which has absolutely nothing to do with EA Sports or any other imaginary or computer animated hockey figures or stats (lost interest after NHL 1995 anyway).

And yet with all of the showcases, Hughes still went 1 and he was the top choice of 100% of all GMs in hockey. That comes from pundits, that comes from our own insiders. NO ONE is arguing that Kakko is more NHL ready. Yet the majority, unless they are Kakko fans first and all else after, would think that he is considered to be the better prospect. I certainly hope it turns out that way. Only time will tell.

 

[EdJovanovski]

And yet with all of the showcases, Hughes still went 1 and he was the top choice of 100% of all GMs in hockey. That comes from pundits, that comes from our own insiders. NO ONE is arguing that Kakko is more NHL ready. Yet the majority, unless they are Kakko fans first and all else after, would think that he is considered to be the better prospect. I certainly hope it turns out that way. Only time will tell.

That’s not true, multiple GM’s had Kakko first over Hughes.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

What gives him the best chance to be such a player? Playing on a line centered by ZBad or one by Chytil or Howden? Or do you believe his production will be the same no matter what? Or was he not brought here to maximize production?

As for "who cares", frankly anyone that was pounding the table that by signing such a player it relieves pressure from playing in a role that they are not ready for. Or does merely playing on a line with Panarin mean that you are ready for any such role?

There were a lot of reasons people were pro panarin. Most of those reasons were poorly thought out or half baked at best so I wouldn't form an argument based on anything the pro panarin crowd was saying pre-signing.

This team is not setup to maximize Panarin, it's setup to get Panarin to help young guys develop in a competitive environment while we all cross every limb praying he doesn't drop off a performance cliff in 2 or 3 years.

It was a stupid, myopic signing that could still work out fantastically if every planet aligns

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

That’s not true, multiple GM’s had Kakko first over Hughes.

None of them will admit who they are unless Kakko proves to be better in the end in which case some Tweet will finally come out from Dreger or whoever claiming that "Toronto loved Kakko".

My bs detector goes off when I hear anonymous sources wanted to go against the grain.

Tell a reporter off the record that you liked Kakko more. Risk nothing. Don't reveal it was you if Hughes ends up better. Reveal it was you if Kakko ends up better so you look smart. I don't buy that very many GMs liked Kakko more.

 

[True Blue]

That’s not true, multiple GM’s had Kakko first over Hughes.

That is not the information we were picking up here from any of our own insiders. What we were picking up was that Hughes was 100% consensus #1. Unless your information comes from other sources that are also vetted, I will go what what we knew.