Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part V

[True Blue]

This team is not setup to maximize Panarin, it's setup to get Panarin to help young guys develop in a competitive environment while we all cross every limb praying he doesn't drop off a performance cliff in 2 or 3 years.

It was a stupid, myopic signing that could still work out fantastically if every planet aligns

If that was the reason for singing him, it is like you said.

That said, I do not believe that was the reason. Which is why I believe that he will spend the majority of the season on a like with Zbad.

 

[kelsier]

And yet with all of the showcases, Hughes still went 1 and he was the top choice of 100% of all GMs in hockey. That comes from pundits, that comes from our own insiders. NO ONE is arguing that Kakko is more NHL ready. Yet the majority, unless they are Kakko fans first and all else after, would think that he is considered to be the better prospect. I certainly hope it turns out that way. Only time will tell.

I'm left clueless once again where you get this all from. It wasn't unanimous.

"TSN expanded the Hughes vs. Kakko debate to an additional 11 NHL clubs. Six of those 11 team representatives went with Hughes. Two chose Kakko and three clubs said it was too close to call. And repeating what was said before, because they don’t have to make the decision, they didn’t."

https://www.tsn.ca/hughes-edges-kakko-in-tsn-s-final-draft-rankings-1.1323883

 

[True Blue]

I'm left clueless once again where you get this all from. It wasn't unanimous.

The people that post here and have been vetted.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The people that post here and have been vetted.

I don’t recall Edge, BBKers, or Mikos explicitly saying that Hughes is the 100% consesus #1 amongst all 31 NHL teams. I remember Edge saying that he believes Hughes was 1 on the Rangers list, but that’s about it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

One team had Hughes at 3

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

One team had Hughes at 3

Rumors saying it was apparently the Blackhawks, but I find it hard that a prestige team like that would have Hughes at #3

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Rumors saying it was apparently the Blackhawks, but I find it hard that a prestige team like that would have Hughes at #3

It wouldn’t surprise me.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

And yet with all of the showcases, Hughes still went 1 and he was the top choice of 100% of all GMs in hockey. That comes from pundits, that comes from our own insiders. NO ONE is arguing that Kakko is more NHL ready. Yet the majority, unless they are Kakko fans first and all else after, would think that he is considered to be the better prospect. I certainly hope it turns out that way. Only time will tell.

This is not true and was confirmed by McKenzie before the draft. A few teams he spoke with had Kakko ahead of Hughes.

 

[kelsier]

The people that post here and have been vetted.

I would consider it reasonable to assume that people who post here are not general managers of NHL franchises.

 

[haveandare]

It wouldn’t surprise me.

The blackhawks haven’t made a good roster decision in a few years so I’d buy it.

 

[True Blue]

I don’t recall Edge, BBKers, or Mikos explicitly saying that Hughes is the 100% consesus #1 amongst all 31 NHL teams. I remember Edge saying that he believes Hughes was 1 on the Rangers list, but that’s about it.

Not how I recall it, but ok

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The blackhawks haven’t made a good roster decision in a few years so I’d buy it.

Schmaltz for Strome?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Not how I recall it, but ok

Regardless, Bobby Mac had an article that disproves a total consensus. So...that’s that.

 

[True Blue]

This is not true and was confirmed by McKenzie before the draft. A few teams he spoke with had Kakko ahead of Hughes.

Ok, then I am wrong. As I recall there was no information that was passed that would lead one to believe that anyone was taking Kakko ahead of Hughes.

Though it does sound to me like we created a very nice echo chamber here now that we have the prize.

 

[True Blue]

Regardless, Bobby Mac had an article that disproves a total consensus. So...that’s that.

Again, being on here, I recall nothing what would pass to believing that anyone had Hughes at other than the top pick. Could be what I read or who I spoke with, but again, I recall no credible information that was passed here otherwise.

 

[True Blue]

I would consider it reasonable to assume that people who post here are not general managers of NHL franchises.

You would consider correctly. There have been some here and there that know just a bit more than random posters on a message board.

 

[kelsier]

You would consider correctly. There have been some here and there that know just a bit more than random posters on a message board.

Precisely. Which is exactly why I prefer to tag up some actual printed articles in case I ever needed them, instead of just expressing wild huntches. Although with the draft and all the happenstances involved with it all still so fresh in the memory I wouldn't have even needed'em as far as this one goes.

 

[haveandare]

Schmaltz for Strome?

Eh, both players played well for their teams after the trade, no?

They did Panarin for Saad, which was mind numbingly terrible right away and has only gotten worse. They lost Teravainen for a second and third - he almost put up a point per game last season.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Eh, both players played well for their teams after the trade, no?

They did Panarin for Saad, which was mind numbingly terrible right away and has only gotten worse. They lost Teravainen for a second and third - he almost put up a point per game last season.

Panarin for Saad is not good, but it’s not THAT bad. I would take two years of Panarin over four years of Saad, but I understand their thinking with that move, and while Saad isn’t close to Panarin he’s still really good.

Teravainen was used to dump Bickell’s contract. Very tough pill to swallow.

Schmaltz played well but got hurt. Strome put up 51 in 58 and is a natural fit with DeBrincat. That is a phenomenal move for Chicago. It’s always a good idea to pluck a talented guy out of a bad team’s grasps early.

That said, I agree with you that Bowman is mostly bad.

 

[AntNYR]

Ok, then I am wrong. As I recall there was no information that was passed that would lead one to believe that anyone was taking Kakko ahead of Hughes.

I don't remember any late season reports that had Hughes as #1 for all 31 NHL teams. A clear favourite absolutely, and once Devils got the pick many thought the matter closed but to my knowledge most insiders thought the matter at least somewhat close. Personally I argued Hughes over Kakko but considering my history of (mis)evaluating prospects that just might be the final deathblow to Jack Hughes's NHL career.

Though it does sound to me like we created a very nice echo chamber here now that we have the prize.

Some did suddenly, and unsurprisingly begin to favor Kakko over Hughes when we got the #2 pick and Devils #1. And sure, there have been a number of cringe worthy posts either praising Kakko or mocking Hughes but those posts have been constantly criticized by the majority of active posters. Quite frankly those of us who thought Hughes the better prospect didn't have to explain our opinion, yet those that preferred Kakko often had to. To me that doesn't sound like an pro-Kakko echo chamber, but maybe your definition differs.

 

[SA16]

Saad for Panarin wasn't really bad at the time. Saad had 40 ES goals 81 ES Pts in 2190 minutes (2.21 pts/60). Panarin had 34 and 86 in 2444 mins (2.11 pts/60). Saad was also absolutely elite at driving play and came with two extra years. Saad did have far worse PP results though but it's reasonable to believe that on a unit with Kane he would score more there then he had in Columbus.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Saad for Panarin wasn't really bad at the time. Saad had 40 ES goals 81 ES Pts in 2190 minutes (2.21 pts/60). Panarin had 34 and 86 in 2444 mins (2.11 pts/60). Saad was also absolutely elite at driving play and came with two extra years. Saad did have far worse PP results though but it's reasonable to believe that on a unit with Kane he would score more there then he had in Columbus.

That deal was based on their contracts more than anything. Chicago knew they couldn't keep Panarin long-term and Saad, at the same AAV, had a longer contract

 

[bleedblue94]

Have you seen the Avalanche top line from this past year? The top line gets top minutes. One of the points that people have been touting is that getting a player like Panarin enables for the Rangers to continue to develop kids by not having them thrust into roles that they are not ready for. Now, to spread scoring around, we are going to put ZBad on the second line and promote Chytil or Howden to center Panarin on the first? Or put Panarin on the second and have Kravstov play the top line role? Doesn't that fly right into the fact of letting the kids develop at their own rate?

You could be right. But my gut says that Panarin was brought here with the thought of being on ZBad's line. Not one centered by Chytil or Howden.

Colorado specifically broke that top line up multiple times throughout the year bc after the ridiculous start with the one line dominating the offense became stagnant bc they were top heavy. They put the top line back together during the season in spurts when they needed an offensive jolt.

I guess I dont view the structure of lines the way you do. I dont think this league the way it is today is designed for a 1 2 3 4 line structure so much as a top 9 with a role playing bottom 3. The top 9 are interchangeable based on the needs of the game, roster, and who is actually going on a given night. I mean are we going to argue pastarnak isnt an elite player even though he spent most of the playoffs on the 3rd line in Boston? Of course not, but he was there to spread offense and still ate up pp time. Teams with offensive depth have top level players not on the historical top line, but they use them throughout their lineup to balance scoring and offense while combining forces like voltron when they need to or for the powerplay. It's the evolution of the pro game.

Your point of kratsov being with zib to start the year is a reason I argued with another poster that CK may be here for the season as an own rental player unless they acquire another vet to play with zib and alleviate the matchup burden if they choose. I guess I am just seeing a situation where they will be adjusting all season long to the needs and development of all the young players. Some will grow and some will struggle, and managing both is part of why I think it will be a juggling act all year, and also part of why I think you need to keep panarin and zib apart to spread out the quality a little bit. Just bc they dont play together even strength doesnt mean they wont be elite trigger men together on the top pp

 

[SA16]

Colorado specifically broke that top line up multiple times throughout the year bc after the ridiculous start with the one line dominating the offense became stagnant bc they were top heavy. They put the top line back together during the season in spurts when they needed an offensive jolt.

I guess I dont view the structure of lines the way you do. I dont think this league the way it is today is designed for a 1 2 3 4 line structure so much as a top 9 with a role playing bottom 3. The top 9 are interchangeable based on the needs of the game, roster, and who is actually going on a given night. I mean are we going to argue pastarnak isnt an elite player even though he spent most of the playoffs on the 3rd line in Boston? Of course not, but he was there to spread offense and still ate up pp time. Teams with offensive depth have top level players not on the historical top line, but they use them throughout their lineup to balance scoring and offense while combining forces like voltron when they need to or for the powerplay. It's the evolution of the pro game.

Your point of kratsov being with zib to start the year is a reason I argued with another poster that CK may be here for the season as an own rental player unless they acquire another vet to play with zib and alleviate the matchup burden if they choose. I guess I am just seeing a situation where they will be adjusting all season long to the needs and development of all the young players. Some will grow and some will struggle, and managing both is part of why I think it will be a juggling act all year, and also part of why I think you need to keep panarin and zib apart to spread out the quality a little bit. Just bc they dont play together even strength doesnt mean they wont be elite trigger men together on the top pp

Not much. Rantanen played 85% of his ice time with MacKinnon. Of the remaining 15% some is due to double shifting. And then maybe like 10% is when they intentionally had different lines. 10% of his ice time is 116 mins which is like 7 games.

 

[JimmyG89]

What gives him the best chance to be such a player? Playing on a line centered by ZBad or one by Chytil or Howden? Or do you believe his production will be the same no matter what? Or was he not brought here to maximize production?

As for "who cares", frankly anyone that was pounding the table that by signing such a player it relieves pressure from playing in a role that they are not ready for. Or does merely playing on a line with Panarin mean that you are ready for any such role?

The scenario where a team has to be concerned about Panarin's line and another line coming onto the ice and scoring. A choice would have to be made. Some teams don't have two pairings they would want to go out there against lines like that. We should know this because for the last 10 years before rebuilding, the Rangers made it their thing with depth scoring that would allow them to win games over other teams. Spread the talent around and you'll take advantage of weak 2nd pairs on bad teams and not as good 3rd pairs on good teams.

Panarin's production will not really drop off at all based on his center. He's played with younger, older, more defensive, more offensive types and he consistently hits his totals, year after year.

If line placement is a big deal, guess the Hawks weren't maxing out Pat Kane's abilities playing him with another undersized scoring winger and a center that couldn't crack the Coyotes. He should have been playing with Toews and Saad.

If we go out there and stack one line, as good as it may be, we'll be more like the Oilers than anything else. A one line team that if you shut them down, you're pretty much going to win.

Believe it or not, this team isn't going to intentionally tank, and splitting Panarin and Zibanejad so the team has two scoring lines would be the way to go IMO. They can be stacked together late in games and when we really need a goal, but having all the power on one line and leaving 2-4 with all our young players and/or bottom 6ers spread out will not end up well for the team and their development.

Case in point, look at how Buchnevich picked it up playing with Kreider and Zibanejad. Now that he is coming into his own, there is a much better chance now that he can go out there and help be a bigger part of his own line. This season, that has the chance to be the 3rd line, especially with the talent coming in on RW. Kakko and Kravtsov's skill level could make them great complimentary players for Zibanejad and Panarin. Over time, they get adjusted to the league and they don't have to be on those lines. They could drive play themselves.