GDT: 2018 IIHF World Championship

[Rexor]

Sorry, but the level of ignorance and arrogance towards Czech/European hockey displayed in this thread is mind-boggling.

Euro players fall into hierarchy according to where they play: NHL regulars then Euro top leagues top players then AHLers and only then NA junior league prospects (and only when they are something special). Zadina was one of the last cuts. Not right IMHO but should not be surprising.

Yeah, that's why the coach is playing Hronek over European defencemen on the PP and had him there for about 90 seconds on the 4-3 PP in the OT against Switzerland... One doesn't need to resort to conspiracy theories to understand why Nečas has been playing a lot more than Chytil: he's simply better. At least for now and at least on the big ice. Chytil hasn't shown much at this tournament, though he wasn't exactly put in a place to excel yesterday, playing on the 4th line in a game where the Czechs were short-handed for almost 30 minutes or so. Chytil is definitely a very talented player whose time with the national time will come but most likely, it's not going to be at this tournament yet.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Or... Could it be that Necas is just playing better than Chytil? Because I think he is. He certainly was in Pardubice last month

 

[Fvital92]

Sorry, but the level of ignorance and arrogance towards Czech/European hockey displayed in this thread is mind-boggling.



Yeah, that's why the coach is playing Hronek over European defencemen on the PP and had him there for about 90 seconds on the 4-3 PP in the OT against Switzerland... One doesn't need to resort to conspiracy theories to understand why Nečas has been playing a lot more than Chytil: he's simply better. At least for now and at least on the big ice. Chytil hasn't shown much at this tournament, though he wasn't exactly put in a place to excel yesterday, playing on the 4th line in a game where the Czechs were short-handed for almost 30 minutes or so. Chytil is definitely a very talented player whose time with the national time will come but most likely, it's not going to be at this tournament yet.

Or... Could it be that Necas is just playing better than Chytil? Because I think he is. He certainly was in Pardubice last month

Chytil was one of the best Czech players in these pre tournaments, also had a lot of ice time. In the WJC he was coming back from injury so it is kind of understandable, Necas is awesome but it's kind of unfair say that he is a better player right now when Chytil simply doesn't get the chances that Necas has with the Czech Republic team.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Chytil was one of the best Czech players in these pre tournaments, also had a lot of ice time. In the WJC he was coming back from injury so it is kind of understandable, Necas is awesome but it's kind of unfair say that he is a better player right now when Chytil simply doesn't get the chances that Necas has with the Czech Republic team.

Chytil got his chances during the EHT. He wasn't bad, but he didn't really do enough to warrant a spot in the top-6 either. Him being on the team is huge though. Necas seems a better fit right now. I doin't think Chytil was one of the best players, especially in the Carlson Games.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Sorry, but the level of ignorance and arrogance towards Czech/European hockey displayed in this thread is mind-boggling.



Yeah, that's why the coach is playing Hronek over European defencemen on the PP and had him there for about 90 seconds on the 4-3 PP in the OT against Switzerland... One doesn't need to resort to conspiracy theories to understand why Nečas has been playing a lot more than Chytil: he's simply better. At least for now and at least on the big ice. Chytil hasn't shown much at this tournament, though he wasn't exactly put in a place to excel yesterday, playing on the 4th line in a game where the Czechs were short-handed for almost 30 minutes or so. Chytil is definitely a very talented player whose time with the national time will come but most likely, it's not going to be at this tournament yet.

If Necas is better, why were their averages in points per game nearly the same with their club teams? Chytil had .67, Necas .71. Chytil also played in the better league this season, so considering it was that close, I think its logical to say Chytil's club season was better than Necas.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Chytil got his chances during the EHT. He wasn't bad, but he didn't really do enough to warrant a spot in the top-6 either. Him being on the team is huge though. Necas seems a better fit right now. I doin't think Chytil was one of the best players, especially in the Carlson Games.

Necas had 0 EHT points.

 

[Rexor]

If Necas is better, why were their averages in points per game nearly the same with their club teams? Chytil had .67, Necas .71. Chytil also played in the better league this season, so considering it was that close, I think its logical to say Chytil's club season was better than Necas.

It's a rather simplistic view. Different leagues, different teams, different roles on the teams, different systems etc. You cannot just compare their point totals and then conclude that one is better than the other one because they had a similar PPG and the other player was in an easier league. I didn't see Chytil this year in the AHL. As for Nečas, he started kinda slow after his return from Carolina in late October, then got much better/confident after the WJC in January. He also had some very strong games in the Extraliga playoffs this spring. He's just getting better and better and it's not much of a shock that he's looking better at the WHC than Chytil who, frankly, has always been seen as the lesser talent between these two, and spent the entire season on the small ice.

AHL is a better league overall than Extraliga. However, Extraliga is comparably slower paced and allows a lot of obstruction, teams use a lot of big, physical players and employ quite defensive systems. It's not exactly an easy environment for young players, often weaker physically and naive on tactival level, and it also wasn't an easy environment for Nečas, who thrives in a more direct and faster paced game. His Extraliga point totals are probably underscoring the level of his talent, not to mention the fact that he was centering the 3rd line (even though he did see PP time). I believe he'd likely have better numbers in Finland or Sweden.

Necas had 0 EHT points.

Nečas had 1 point (an assist on Chytil's goal) in 2 games when he was still recovering from an illness. Chytil had 2 points in 3 games. Again, it's nothing against Chytil, he's good and is going to be even better. But there's no need to see some conspiracy behind the fact the Czech coaches are currently trusting Nečas more and are giving him a more prominent role on the team.

 

[kovazub94]

Sorry, but the level of ignorance and arrogance towards Czech/European hockey displayed in this thread is mind-boggling.

I also have a Euro background - the main reason I follow WC. In my post I was taking about a general trend. It was mostly based on my knowledge of KHL and Russian players but this (as in a trend and not a hard rule) should apply to all Euro leagues.

To dismiss a point about a trend you gave me one specific example about one junior player? How about I give you a specific example going the other way? How did Plekanec make the team if, by all accounts, he's had a pretty terrible regular season and playoffs.

P.S. I don't think my comment was disparaging so I'm sorry that your patriotic feelings were hurt from my mind-boggling, ignorant and arrogant post. Regards,

 

[Ola]

Rexor- I saw an interview yesterday with Pasternak by Swedish TV. I was surprised. Pasternak totally and completely destroyed Czech hockey. Kids are never given a chance. Nobody practice. When he came to Sweden, the coach came into the gym and put a paper on the wall and left. Pasternak was shocked to see everyone working out when the coach wasn’t there.

Do you have any insight to where that is coming from?

 

[nyr2k2]

I love that the criticism of this thread is that people don't understand Czech/European hockey when in fact half of the posters are Europeans, many of whom even watch and/or attend Czech hockey games.

 

[Kovalev27]

Chytil did not play well at all against Sweden when he had more mins with Necas out. That hurts his argument for more ice time. To me the bigger thing is he looks absolutely lost playing wing. Has no idea where to be. Totally different than in his NA games.

So if Pasternak is coming krejci coming he probably won’t play. It’s fine.

 

[Rexor]

Rexor- I saw an interview yesterday with Pasternak by Swedish TV. I was surprised. Pasternak totally and completely destroyed Czech hockey. Kids are never given a chance. Nobody practice. When he came to Sweden, the coach came into the gym and put a paper on the wall and left. Pasternak was shocked to see everyone working out when the coach wasn’t there.

Do you have any insight to where that is coming from?

One of the biggest problems in Czech junior hockey is definitely lack of competition - players don't need to work hard enough because there are too many teams in the top junior leagues. A difficult transition from junior to professional hockey is another issue (Extraliga teams are relying on older players or second-rate foreigners who come cheaper than Czech players and won't leave for NA in a year or two, and the second division is not good enough - again, too many teams). These and some other problems have been addressed and are getting fixed to some extent. The situation is certainly better than it was when Pastrňák left for Sweden. Still, there's a long way to go. It also greatly varies from one club to another.

I also have a Euro background - the main reason I follow WC. In my post I was taking about a general trend. It was mostly based on my knowledge of KHL and Russian players but this (as in a trend and not a hard rule) should apply to all Euro leagues.

To dismiss a point about a trend you gave me one specific example about one junior player? How about I give you a specific example going the other way? How did Plekanec make the team if, by all accounts, he's had a pretty terrible regular season and playoffs.

P.S. I don't think my comment was disparaging so I'm sorry that your patriotic feelings were hurt from my mind-boggling, ignorant and arrogant post. Regards,

Plekanec actually had good playoffs. He scored four points and was very good at shutting down the Bergeron line. There are some players on this Czech team that I would like to see play less than Chytil but Plekanec? He's still a useful player even though he's not producing that much.

I would be cautious when comparing Russia and Czech Republic here. Czechs never thought there was some sort of rivalry between their league and NHL, and political ideology and geopolitics are also a non-factor. One could argue that Chytil should be above this one or another one in the team hierarchy but to imply that his icetime is low because he spent a year in the AHL is wrong. There are indeed Czech fans who complain about the lack of Chytil's icetime but as far as I know, no one has come up with the idea that it has something to do with him playing in the AHL.

 

[Ola]

Sweden have played quite many games in a short time the last couple of weeks. It has immediately impacted Lias. He was one of the top players on the ice against the Slovaks and Danes in the preseason games and was good in the Sweden Hockey Games (Carlsson Games). He was good in the first game, but now he looks a lot heavier. Stiff legs on the way to the bench. The kid needs an off season.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I love that the criticism of this thread is that people don't understand Czech/European hockey when in fact half of the posters are Europeans, many of whom even watch and/or attend Czech hockey games.

Nah man, it’s ignorance. It can’t POSSIBLY be that the Czech team tends to make weird player decisions.

 

[Ola]

One of the biggest problems in Czech junior hockey is definitely lack of competition - players don't need to work hard enough because there are too many teams in the top junior leagues. A difficult transition from junior to professional hockey is another issue (Extraliga teams are relying on older players or second-rate foreigners who come cheaper than Czech players and won't leave for NA in a year or two, and the second division is not good enough - again, too many teams). These and some other problems have been addressed and are getting fixed to some extent. The situation is certainly better than it was when Pastrňák left for Sweden. Still, there's a long way to go. It also greatly varies from one club to another.

Plekanec actually had good playoffs. He scored four points and was very good at shutting down the Bergeron line. There are some players on this Czech team that I would like to see play less than Chytil but Plekanec? He's still a useful player even though he's not producing that much.

Thanks, great insight! The Czech hockey program certainly seem to be picking up speed!!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It's a rather simplistic view. Different leagues, different teams, different roles on the teams, different systems etc. You cannot just compare their point totals and then conclude that one is better than the other one because they had a similar PPG and the other player was in an easier league. I didn't see Chytil this year in the AHL. As for Nečas, he started kinda slow after his return from Carolina in late October, then got much better/confident after the WJC in January. He also had some very strong games in the Extraliga playoffs this spring. He's just getting better and better and it's not much of a shock that he's looking better at the WHC than Chytil who, frankly, has always been seen as the lesser talent between these two, and spent the entire season on the small ice.

AHL is a better league overall than Extraliga. However, Extraliga is comparably slower paced and allows a lot of obstruction, teams use a lot of big, physical players and employ quite defensive systems. It's not exactly an easy environment for young players, often weaker physically and naive on tactival level, and it also wasn't an easy environment for Nečas, who thrives in a more direct and faster paced game. His Extraliga point totals are probably underscoring the level of his talent, not to mention the fact that he was centering the 3rd line (even though he did see PP time). I believe he'd likely have better numbers in Finland or Sweden.



Nečas had 1 point (an assist on Chytil's goal) in 2 games when he was still recovering from an illness. Chytil had 2 points in 3 games. Again, it's nothing against Chytil, he's good and is going to be even better. But there's no need to see some conspiracy behind the fact the Czech coaches are currently trusting Nečas more and are giving him a more prominent role on the team.

EP lists him with 0 points. I'm only going off what they listed for Necas.

 

[nyr2k2]

Sweden have played quite many games in a short time the last couple of weeks. It has immediately impacted Lias. He was one of the top players on the ice against the Slovaks and Danes in the preseason games and was good in the Sweden Hockey Games (Carlsson Games). He was good in the first game, but now he looks a lot heavier. Stiff legs on the way to the bench. The kid needs an off season.

Lias has now played, by my count, 78 games.

25 with Hartford
22 with Frolunda
13 with the U20 national team
11 with the senior national team
7 with Frolunda in the Champions League

He actually played more last season. Bit of a different breakdown though:

42 with HV71
17 with the U20 national team
16 with HV71 in the playoffs
7 with HV71 in the Champions League
3 games with HV71 in J20

Lots of travel this season. Transatlantic travel as well.

 

[Rexor]

Thanks, great insight! The Czech hockey program certainly seem to be picking up speed!!

Yeah, hopefully. It's better than around 2010, still not nearly good enough compared to Sweden or Finland though. We are still able to produce very good forwards but defencemen are a huge weakness. There's Hronek, then a few others like Hájek and Zbořil, and then nothing.

He gets critized way too often because people have no patience and expect things to change in a year or two, but I believe that Slavomír Lener - who has been in charge of the Czech youth development overhaul since 2010 - has made a lot of good work in this area. He spent some time coaching in Sweden in the past and has been drawing a strong inspiration from the successful Swedish rebuild in the early 2000's.

 

[BBKers]

Rexor- I saw an interview yesterday with Pasternak by Swedish TV. I was surprised. Pasternak totally and completely destroyed Czech hockey. Kids are never given a chance. Nobody practice. When he came to Sweden, the coach came into the gym and put a paper on the wall and left. Pasternak was shocked to see everyone working out when the coach wasn’t there.

Do you have any insight to where that is coming from?

Hmmm. I might know what you are referring to here

 

[Fvital92]

On a happy note for Rangers fans, Zibanejad is on god mode in this tournament.

 

[LeetchisGod]

On a happy note for Rangers fans, Zibanejad is on god mode in this tournament.

The talent is there. The health and consistency haven't been.

 

[Fvital92]

The talent is there. The health and consistency haven't been.

The consistency is there I think, he only played poorly after the injuries thes past 2 seasons so I wouldnt criticize him for that with us.
Lets hope this year he has more lucky on the ice.

 

[Ola]

Lias to x to Ziba for 6-0

Nice takeaway by Lias, twice in the same shift

 

[Ola]

Lias has now played, by my count, 78 games.

25 with Hartford
22 with Frolunda
13 with the U20 national team
11 with the senior national team
7 with Frolunda in the Champions League

He actually played more last season. Bit of a different breakdown though:

42 with HV71
17 with the U20 national team
16 with HV71 in the playoffs
7 with HV71 in the Champions League
3 games with HV71 in J20

Lots of travel this season. Transatlantic travel as well.

Yeah, and he has also played 7 games in the NHL. So that takes it to 85. 4 games at Traverse, 89 games. 3 preseason games with NYR, 92 games. 6 teams. He has changed continents 4 times.

He played more than 100 games the year before. EP don’t have the CHL games HV played, 7-8 games. Swedish preseason is really long. Played preseason with both HV juniors and the men’s team.

 

[Mac n Gs]

HNNNNNGGGGGGGG