GDT: 2018 Free Agency: Jay Beagle 4 x 3M, Antoine Roussel 4 x 3.25M, both w/ limited NTCs

[LickTheEnvelope]

This is reason enough to fire Benning on the spot. 27.425 mil on bottom 6 and the 5 and 6 defender (though lets be honest Guddy shouldn't be in the league.) That leaves 52 mil for your top 6, top 4 and 2 goaltenders. An average of 4.34 million a player. How do they think any team could win in this league like that? Many teams will have 16-20 mil tied up in their best 2 players which isn't unreasonable. If Pettersson has a Boeser-esque impact and Boeser improves on last year then we could be looking at 15 mil plus Horvat with many of these guys under contract. And for what? We didn't get any draft picks, these aren't other teams crappy contracts.

Benning seemed to indicate they chased grit as the young guys will provide the offense but where are they going to play? You can fill the entire roster with guys over 24 except Horvat and Boeser. Are we really going to scratch Gagner and Eriksson and more to play the kids?

By the time you are paying Pettersson all these contracts will be over or nearly over.

Boeser and Demko are up next year and even if they are $16 mil combined the Canucks have no cap issues.

Lines right now:
Baertschi - Horvat - Boeser
Eriksson - Pettersson/Gaudette - Virtanen/Pettersson/Gaudette
Granlund - Sutter - Gaudette/Virtanen
Roussel - Beagle - Leipsic
Gaunce/Gagner

Potential to be moved out quick:

- Grandlund
- Leipsic
- Gaunce
- Virtanen
- Sutter

 

[mossey3535]

bozak got 3 years at $5m. I don't like Bozak but I'd take that over either Roussel or Beagle's deals, at least Bozak can play with skilled players.

You know it's bad when the overpayment UFA that we all predicted turns out to be a decent deal that we didn't make.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

The Canucks had to bring in some toughness, mission accomplished. It's obvious that only a couple -3 prospects are even good enough to crack a NHL lineup. Pettersson, maybe Gaudette. That's about it. Dahlen isn't ready as well as all of the others sent to Utica last spring. Green is definitely not the type to put kids in a lineup that are not ready. Most will take at minimum 2 seasons to develop.

I can see loosing a guy or two on waivers trying to get them to Utica. Goldobin and Boucher would be my guess..

Nucks fans need to calm down and let these players develop properly....

Ya I don't see the panic. In 2013 I figured it would be about 2020-22 before the Canucks were back knocking on the door. Still time and I really think the need is for a couple d-men and maybe 1 more scorer. Everything else is semantics.

 

[me2]

Looks like the Canucks are following what the Maple leafs do a few seasons ago. Stuff all of their prospects in Utica for a AHL season of learning together. Not sure if the nucks will tank all the way to #1 OA pick. Good plan and next year the Canucks fans will reap the rewards just like the leafs are currently doing.

I can see the prospects getting called up for stints and then again at the trade deadline when they can move out some players.

Except they loaded up on one/two year deals they flipped at the deadline for 2nds and 3rds when the kids were ready. Our kids are going to be waiting up to 4 years if the plan is to flip Roussel and Beagle in their last years.

 

[Fire Benning]

It keeps getting better.

 

[Cupless44]

By the time you are paying Pettersson all these contracts will be over or nearly over.

Boeser and Demko are up next year and even if they are $16 mil combined the Canucks have no cap issues.

Lines right now:
Baertschi - Horvat - Boeser
Eriksson - Pettersson/Gaudette - Virtanen/Pettersson/Gaudette
Granlund - Sutter - Gaudette/Virtanen
Roussel - Beagle - Leipsic
Gaunce/Gagner

Potential to be moved out quick:

- Grandlund
- Leipsic
- Gaunce
- Virtanen
- Sutter

So you have just thrown Goldobin away.

And you want to move out the fastest player we have in Virtanen who is just starting to flash and figure out the NHL to keep the Roussels of the world. Okeee.

 

[Warh1ppy]

Well I have reservations due to some of the choices but some of the people involved seem competent. Our USHL and NCAA scouting seems pretty solid.

The Canucks really did need depth in those 3rd and 4th lines that would take the top 2 lines away from the young guys.

I don't see the issue.

Me neither. Last year was our first true homerun for our prospect pool. That draft class is not going to be seen until this or next season

This years class with Hughes and Woo are a year or two away.

Even signing Tavares would only ensure mediocrity.

This team was destined for a top 10 pick again next year. Todays signings dont change that. But they do make this team harder to play against and will have little to no impact on our cap when we really need it.

Now we are assured one or two rookies that will be semi protected in Vancouver and a solid influx of youth to grow together in Utica.

But hey...it's so much worse than the Iron Mike and Messier years right :p

 

[Trelane]

Jesus Christ. This was somehow even worst than I expected from these guys (you'd think they'd learn at least a LITTLE bit). What a disaster.
You can't seriously still believe that outplaying them will be sufficient to beating them out for a roster spot.

They're not competing with the likes of Pettersson and Dahlin (when he gets called up). Departure of Sedins and Vanek frees up some primo soft minutes and PP which Beagle and Roussel will NOT be getting. Granted Motte and Gaunce--he of the longest goal drought in the league--will be in tough. As will Gaudette but spending a year in Utica will not be a tragedy unless your estimation of this player is up there with M2B.

I'd be worried for the kids if we signed legit top 6 guys. As it stands I can't see the worthy ones being denied, e.g., Boeser.

 

[Hit the post]

But hey...it's so much worse than the Iron Mike and Messier years right :p

Keenan was mercifully only here for a couple seasons & the turd only for three seasons.

 

[Cupless44]

They're not competing with the likes of Pettersson and Dahlin (when he gets called up). Departure of Sedins and Vanek frees up some primo soft minutes and PP which Beagle and Roussel will NOT be getting. Granted Motte and Gaunce--he of the longest goal drought in the league--will be in tough. As will Gaudette but spending a year in Utica will not be a tragedy unless your estimation of this player is up there with M2B.

I'd be worried for the kids if we signed legit top 6 guys. As it stands I can't see the worthy ones being denied, e.g., Boeser.

Personally I would like to see more of Virtanen and Goldobin in solid minutes before we give up on them so we can play mediocre veterans that will do nothing to improve a bottom 5 team.

Good thing you want to make room for first round draft pick studs like Boeser but the Canucks are going to have to develop more young players than that to turn this mess around.

 

[CanaFan]

And you're assuming he will. Now both of you are assuming.

Benning’s track record shows my assumption is more reasonable.

 

[CanaFan]

oh, I agree with that completely, but circumstances change. The youth on this team will eventually become competitive and his strategy should change.

Eventually is a long time.

 

[me2]

Will still get me chewed the hell out by the I hate everything crowd. but here's our next few years worth of cap

Vancouver Canucks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Our next major RFA contracts are laughably Hutton Pouliot Granlund Demko Goldobin and Boeser in 2019/2020 at which point we will have 13 roster spots signed with $34.549 million in cap space (without factoring cap raise). UFA's we lose to met that cap amount are elder Del Zotto and Dorsett. We won't really be throwing a ton of cash at those names outside of maybe Boeser and Demko

For 2020/2021 only Dahlen Brisebois Gaudette while losing Tanev/Gagner/Markstrom and having 7 spots signed with $49.458 million in cap space (without factoring in cap raise)

Then the big one in 2021/2022 where our big RFA crop is Lind, Gadjovich, Juolevi, Petterson, while losing Gudbranson/Baertschi/Sutter to UFA and having a projected $74 million in cap space with only 1 person signed thereafter.

I look at those names, the potential cap space and the signings last and this year and see a pattern that fits exactly where this team is going in terms of available spots, cap space and contract amounts. Many of those names outside of Boeser, Demko, Petterson will not be making north of $3.5 million on their first contracts so essentially we're watching a management group doing little more than buying literal time.

I know I'll get flamed 6 ways from Sunday on this but it's true. This is not factoring in any cap raises or potential trades let alone the Seattle expansion or new potential CBA issues and any potential new compliance buyouts that will result from them.

All in all, I see little to no reason to worry at all. There is a pattern that seems to fit a definitive timeline with Ericsson being the only ? and even that ? is something that fits that timeline nearly perfectly

So again.

Meh

People have been running that argument for years. Every year they claim a clean slate and restart the clock after Benning does something stupid that offseason. He does it again the next year and they demand another do over, and then another and then another.

I don't trust Benning to make smart decisions with UFAs and said before this UFA season the best thing Benning could do would be go on holidays and disappear so he couldn't do anything stupid. Your entire plan as a Benning backer is for Benning to disappear for 4 years. How bad is a GM when his own backers want him to disappear and do nothing for 4 years.

 

[clunk]

Lol they get NTCs too

 

[CanaFan]

I agree that a) the day could have gone worse (Bozak and Jack Johnson given seven years each) and b) that these decisions are relatively low stakes, but as it stands, the people in charge of the team in 3 years will be the same guys in charge the past 4. That doesn’t fill me with confidence.

Bozak got 3 years.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/free-agency

 

[NeoCanuck]

Okay seriously, how the hell did:

a). Roussel make 750k less than David Perron.
b). Both get four year terms.
c). Limited no-trades.

I hate the idea of paying for intangibles.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

So you have just thrown Goldobin away.

And you want to move out the fastest player we have in Virtanen who is just starting to flash and figure out the NHL to keep the Roussels of the world. Okeee.

No I'm suspecting Goldobin won't make the team. Even he could send Gaudette down to Utica, or Pettersson.

Virtanen is the same. Could be penciled in to the 2nd line, could be traded or moved down in the roster.

Where would you slot in Goldobin if he doesn't make the top 6? 4th line?

 

[Warh1ppy]

Not the point.

I also like some of our prospects. What happens if the timeline is sped up suddenly? (No I do not expect this to happen). What if we need to actually start surrounding the young guys with complementary pieces in two years?

A good GM does good practices. All the time. You don't take a season off, or sign a string of people to overpayments because you might have cap space. You don't give out contracts that can't be flipped for other assets (picks or otherwise).

Because if EP is rookie of the year somehow and we have to pivot, now we have a number of guys who are difficult to turn into other assets that might be important. If more and more rookies step up, they are blocked by borderline useful vets.

If these moves had the term right, there wouldn't be an issue. But they're yet another example of poor management. You can find media criticism of almost all Benning's moves, not just on this forum. When every move has questionable aspects to it, why should I as a fan take it on faith that the manager knows what he's doing?

Let's say Beagle is really a great leader. Give him his bonuses (but no NTC) for two years. But hardball Roussel. And if they're a fit for where the team is in two years, then re-sign them for another two years. That's simple asset management.

Even if they are doing the Leafs/Marlies thing, why do they need to sign these guys to 4 year deals? Yes, it happens that their deals end roughly when we might need to pay some guys. But that doesn't make the individual decisions justifiable as actual skilled GM work, and Jim doesn't have a body of work that gives him currency.

Why do they sign them to 4 year deals? Unsure. Maybe other teams offered more for less term but these guys wanted term?

Imagine how this day goes if Benning did nothing at all. Damned if you do damned if you don't right.

I think the term is a year much myself. 3 years was fine but factor in this.

Vancouvers cost of living is among the highest in the league

Vancouver is still 2+ years away from competing

We had little to 0 deterrents of any kind on this team.

All these factor in to every signing. The NTCs are limited. Essentially meaning more often than not that we wont be able to trade them to bottom feeders.

Im really not for or against any of these signings myself honestly. It all fits yhe tineline to contention this team is on.

As of right now we're a top 10 pick next year at home. Have players we can in fact trade and don't need to rush anyone doing it.

I'm not an instant gratification kinda guy. Proper building of anything takes time and is a total pain. But having watched botched jobs cost people more than just a job or time I'm ok with it.

I lived through the 70s and 80s. I survived the Keenan years. This is the brightest future this teams had in...well ever.

If people want to complain about today cool. Last season fine. This coming season alright. But keep in mind what they'll be saying in 3-5 years as well.

Everyone complains when it hurts. Nobody remembers they did when it feels good though

 

[CanaFan]

Me neither. Last year was our first true homerun for our prospect pool. That draft class is not going to be seen until this or next season

This years class with Hughes and Woo are a year or two away.

Even signing Tavares would only ensure mediocrity.

This team was destined for a top 10 pick again next year. Todays signings dont change that. But they do make this team harder to play against and will have little to no impact on our cap when we really need it.

Now we are assured one or two rookies that will be semi protected in Vancouver and a solid influx of youth to grow together in Utica.

But hey...it's so much worse than the Iron Mike and Messier years right :p

Iron Mike years we missed playoffs from 1997-2000 or 4 seasons. We’re already in season 3 here and playoffs are still years away. That was a breeze in comparison to this mess.

 

[Fire Benning]

Limited NTCs for Roussel and Beagle. God dammit Gillis.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Why do they sign them to 4 year deals? Unsure. Maybe other teams offered more for less term but these guys wanted term?

Imagine how this day goes if Benning did nothing at all. Damned if you do damned if you don't right.

I think the term is a year much myself. 3 years was fine but factor in this.

Vancouvers cost of living is among the highest in the league

Vancouver is still 2+ years away from competing

We had little to 0 deterrents of any kind on this team.

All these factor in to every signing. The NTCs are limited. Essentially meaning more often than not that we wont be able to trade them to bottom feeders.

Im really not for or against any of these signings myself honestly. It all fits yhe tineline to contention this team is on.

As of right now we're a top 10 pick next year at home. Have players we can in fact trade and don't need to rush anyone doing it.

I'm not an instant gratification kinda guy. Proper building of anything takes time and is a total pain. But having watched botched jobs cost people more than just a job or time I'm ok with it.

I lived through the 70s and 80s. I survived the Keenan years. This is the brightest future this teams had in...well ever.

If people want to complain about today cool. Last season fine. This coming season alright. But keep in mind what they'll be saying in 3-5 years as well.

Everyone complains when it hurts. Nobody remembers they did when it feels good though

Exactly, and I have hated quite a lot they have done but today isn't even close to an issue for me.

Frankly I'd rather have Roussel and Beagle than Eriksson for the same money.

 

[y2kcanucks]

You listed 7 players. Biega isn’t making the team again. What I want is a good balance. 3-to-1 and even 4-to-1 of young players to vets isn’t a good balance.

Not to mention, every single one of the 7 veterans on your list, you want off the team!

What YOU ask for is a team of 22 kids. Ridiculous.

Who do you consider to be kids on this team?

 

[CanaFan]

Exactly, and I have hated quite a lot they have done but today isn't even close to an issue for me.

Frankly I'd rather have Roussel and Beagle than Eriksson for the same money.

Well lucky for you you don’t have to choose. You get them all.

 

[Get North]

Granlund and Leipsic need to be moved. They weren't pushed out by Beagle, Roussel, and Schaller, they just have no potential as NHL players. They don't have the size, versatility, or skill that these 3 players have, and never will. They are not young enough that we can say they have potential, they are 24/25.

The prospects we need to focus our attention on is Pettersson, Dahlen, and Gaudette. Virtanen and Boeser are also important. These 5 have potential to be high-end, not Granlund and Leipsic. When you look at it from this perspective, I like Roussel and Beagle for 3M, they're quality players that are good in a bottom 6 role. Schaller was impressive in the playoffs and if he can play like Dorsett at that salary, I like it.

 

[VanJack]

Seriously....Jimbo and the Canucks dramatically overpaid for Sbsia, Dorsett, Sutter, Gudbranson, Del Zotto, Gagner and Eriksson...why should the latest UFA signings be any different? Obviously Gaunce, Goldobin and Boucher will have to be dispatched to Utica, and will require waivers to get there....not too sure any of them will make it, although Gaunce and Boucher have been on waivers before.

The spin from the Canucks braintrust is that if the kids come in and outplay the veterans in training camp, they'll start the season with them. But we all know that isn't happening...it would mean $11m in contracts for guys like Gagner, Eriksson and Del Zotto in the minors.