Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
His greatest value will come early on his contract - at the same time his NTC is at the strongest (re: number of teams).
GDT: 2018 Free Agency: Jay Beagle 4 x 3M, Antoine Roussel 4 x 3.25M, both w/ limited NTCs
- Thread starter DownGoesMcDavid
- Start date
-
Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
- Status
Not really any way to spin this positively. I would have probably been fine if we overpaid for one of the two guys. Both is unforgivable.
Overall I tend not to get too stressed by these moves as I think we’re going to be terrible for the next couple of years at least and getting bad players probably helps the tank. I also think Benning is gone before his contract is up.
Right now my only goal is to see our prospect pool built up, avoid dumb trades and hopefully finally start to acquire additional draft picks for players who don’t fit the timeline of the rebuild.
Two years from now new management should hopefully have a good young group to build around. If Benning actually maximized the number of picks I think he’d actually be a good tank commander.
The only other worry I have is that if these moves block more deserving young players from being given a chance. In my view that will depend on whether Benning trades players like Gagner and maybe Granlund and looks to move some defense as well for picks. Unfortunately Eriksson is unmoveable.
Two more years I keep telling myself. Hang in there!
Overall I tend not to get too stressed by these moves as I think we’re going to be terrible for the next couple of years at least and getting bad players probably helps the tank. I also think Benning is gone before his contract is up.
Right now my only goal is to see our prospect pool built up, avoid dumb trades and hopefully finally start to acquire additional draft picks for players who don’t fit the timeline of the rebuild.
Two years from now new management should hopefully have a good young group to build around. If Benning actually maximized the number of picks I think he’d actually be a good tank commander.
The only other worry I have is that if these moves block more deserving young players from being given a chance. In my view that will depend on whether Benning trades players like Gagner and maybe Granlund and looks to move some defense as well for picks. Unfortunately Eriksson is unmoveable.
Two more years I keep telling myself. Hang in there!
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
- 17,962
- 10,725
well on the one hand you seem to agree nobody does it, and then you go on to say dinosaur nhl execs do it.
i just don't agree with your comparison. dinosaur nhl execs do not typically go out and blow their ufa budget overpaying 4th liners. they blow their dough on guys like james neal for 5 years. the linden era canucks also have previously acquired a ton of not very gritty players looking for skill while attempting to sign a small number of token roleplayers to provide the grit. so they have actually tried supporting youth with skill as you say and are now reacting against it.
there are two issues with these signings. first, the term for beagle and roussel, and second, the logjam signing 3 roster forwards creates.
other than this these are routine signings that i have no issue with.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
I don't see any logic in the signing of Roussel. At least with Beagle I can understand (though not agree with). Maybe I'm just overally biased against adding any of those instigator **** disturber types (thought we closed that chapter with Burrows).
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
- 17,962
- 10,725
i have the same bias. i don't much like the choice, but it's not a big deal as a signing in isolation. it's the term and the other two signings on a roster crowded with veteran players who are not top 6 that bugs me.
it is interesting how many dallas fans love roussel though.
Lindgren
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2005
- 6,529
- 4,730
I'm relieved you think it's obvious. I thought you were trying to say something different.
Bleach Clean
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2006
- 27,957
- 7,871
Dinosaur execs overvalue grit and character. They chase it. Overpay for it. This is not limited to FA signings. We saw this with VAN paying a 3rd for Dorsett. Overpaying for Sutter etc... That they are extending this practice to FA, doesn’t turn it from prehistoric thinking to innovative thinking. It pushes prehistoric thinking into overdrive. That’s why it’s seldom done. Most GMs don’t double down in poor practice.
Hope that clears it up for you.
The volume acquisitions of non-established skill pieces like Granlund, Goldobin, Baertschi etc... is in no way sufficient skill support for prospects. It’s a faulty premise on the way to your even worse conclusion.
If these signings were “routine” why is Benning getting so much heat from media and fans over them?
Hint: It’s not just term, or too many players. It’s a fundamental disagreement with what Benning thinks will best help his young players. He’s betting his job that the best way to support youth is to insulate them with veteran bottom6ers. With grit and character. Most people don’t see it that way. Even the radio hosts are distancing themselves from that type of thinking. He’s getting heat for these signings. Let’s see if he’s right for chasing these players.
Last edited:
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
- 17,962
- 10,725
if you actually read what i wrote you have the answer to that question.
i do not grok your whole thesis that these signings make benning a dinosaur compared to a modern cutting edge genius like shanahan. benning didn't even sign goons. your hero shanahan signed 8 minutes a night matt martin for 4 years when he was the same age as roussel. look at recent stanley cup finalist gms and rutherford just paid a first round pick to get 7 minutes night reaves, then mcphee just signed 31 year old 9 minutes a night ryan reaves to 2x$2.775 million.
the canuck moves do not suck simply because benning decided to target grit, and i think it's also wrong to characterize this as benning particularly overpaying for grit as opposed to simply overpaying.
TruGr1t
Proper Villain
- Jun 26, 2003
- 25,351
- 10,705
This is a pretty good summary of why Linden and Benning suck generally, and should be fired. Aside from the most recent stupid contracts.
Cupless44
Registered User
- Jun 25, 2014
- 7,205
- 3,358
The ONLY thing that made watching this moribund bottom 5 team remotely interesting next year was watching the young players. Pretty much the whole fan base feels this way now. No one is interested in watching a slow line-up of mediocre veterans that cant score finish in the bottom 5. AGAIN.
Now with these indefensible signings, you can pencil in Dahlen, Gaudette, Lind to Utica no matter how well they play. Might also lose Goldobin and Leipsic.
This is the most annoying aspect that makes watching and cheering for this team harder and harder. That plus the incompetent management keeps making the same bad moves over and over again.
Now with these indefensible signings, you can pencil in Dahlen, Gaudette, Lind to Utica no matter how well they play. Might also lose Goldobin and Leipsic.
This is the most annoying aspect that makes watching and cheering for this team harder and harder. That plus the incompetent management keeps making the same bad moves over and over again.
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
- 17,962
- 10,725
CpatainCanuck
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2008
- 6,906
- 3,795
The Glass-Half-Full me agrees with you. The Glass-Half-Empty me sees the Edmonton Oilers circa 2012.
David Bruce Banner
Acid Raven Bed Burn
Yep, I would have been happy with no signings... or just AHL callup type signings. I think we'd be bottom 5 again, regardless... but at least the youth would get a chance to prove themselves, the product might be a bit more entertaining, and we wouldn't be locked into watching a declining team for the next 4 years.
Canadian Canuck
Hughes4Calder
Canadian Canuck
Hughes4Calder
Fair, but I just don’t see Beagle declining due to the fact he doesn’t have a lot of miles. He didn’t break into the NHL until he was around 27ish.
Bleach Clean
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2006
- 27,957
- 7,871
It would be simply overpaying if he had targeted skilled players as well as the ones he signed. He didn't do that. He chased a specific type of player here, so the characterization fits. Benning chased and overpaid for grit in FA.
Oh, and let's be clear: These signings are not the reason I think Benning and Linden are dinosaurs. There is far too much material for that argument than to limit myself to these signings alone. No, I'm using this as another example of the same.
That other GMs (Lou Lamoriello, not Shanahan) chased and paid for grit as well only speaks to the characterization of dinosaur thinking. Shanahan's regime too was criticized for that Martin deal. Your other appeals are of no relevance. Unless you want to contend that these grit types are necessary for winning a cup, to the point of PIT failing to win it without Reaves, or WSH failing to win it without Beagle, your point is moot.
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
- 25,107
- 15,230
Yesterday was the final straw for me.
I wanted more grit on this team as much as anyone, but I was hoping the plan would be young or young-ish grit on the 4th line. If they had just re-signed Archibald and then overpaid someone like DSP or whoever for one year (1 year, 3 or 4 million) to serve next to Sutter on that 4th line I think most people would feel okay today. Maybe you get something like the Mason/Jets deal done as well. That's a couple of extremely minor moves that would go a long way with fans.
I now have no interest in watching this team this season. No more tickets, cancelled Sportsnet. I'll follow the team, but I'm not watching or spending a dime on this team until Benning is gone.
I wanted more grit on this team as much as anyone, but I was hoping the plan would be young or young-ish grit on the 4th line. If they had just re-signed Archibald and then overpaid someone like DSP or whoever for one year (1 year, 3 or 4 million) to serve next to Sutter on that 4th line I think most people would feel okay today. Maybe you get something like the Mason/Jets deal done as well. That's a couple of extremely minor moves that would go a long way with fans.
I now have no interest in watching this team this season. No more tickets, cancelled Sportsnet. I'll follow the team, but I'm not watching or spending a dime on this team until Benning is gone.
Actually Roussel was a pretty consistent 30 point guy with an agitating style for five seasons, but his production cratered last year....this probably coincides with Ken Hitchcock's arrival back in Dallas...some players perform for Hitch and others just don't. I could see him contributing 30 points and 60-70 PIMS, which I'd be OK with. And he's still only 28.
But contemplating what Eriksson and Beagle will be like in the final year of their contracts should send out the call out for a mandatory air sickness bag.
Bleach Clean
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2006
- 27,957
- 7,871
Sedins were still 50 point players though. Beagle isn’t relied for offence that’s the difference. He’s a 4C that plays that role perfectly and you can’t decline when there no offense to decline in the first place
Again, the contract is bad, but Beagle won’t decline.
The Sedins were 50 point players... after a _decline_. They were legitimate 1st liners before that time. In that same respect, Beagle will absolutely decline. He'll get slower, will not be as aggressive, puck skills may deteriorate etc...
Every player declines. It's not just points. His ability to push the play will change.
opendoor
Registered User
- Dec 12, 2006
- 11,719
- 1,403
What do you think he was doing before age 27, sitting on a beach? He has played full seasons of hockey pretty much his entire life just like every other NHLer.
I just can't see a tenable argument that riding buses and fighting your way through the ECHL and AHL to make the NHL for half a decade is somehow easier on the body than simply playing in the NHL where you have much better conditions for travel and training.
Cupless44
Registered User
- Jun 25, 2014
- 7,205
- 3,358
A journeymen who toiled in the minors until 27 yet Benning gives him term and an NTC.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
Don't mean to nitpick but Roussel actually never put up 30 or more points in a season - unless you're talking about pace. Again, I don't see any logical reason to sign a guy like Roussel. Starts fights that somebody else will have to finish.
Sedins were still 50 point players though. Beagle isn’t relied for offence that’s the difference. He’s a 4C that plays that role perfectly and you can’t decline when there no offense to decline in the first place
Again, the contract is bad, but Beagle won’t decline.
I am sorry that is a dumb answer. May as well sign Malhotra then. His offence can’t decline and he was a better defensive player.
The more I meditate on the signings the more I realize how management must be thinking several steps ahead of the average fan because what is the most necessary piece on the team to support young Hughes? Are Young offense dynamo Who jumps up in the play needs responsible defensive forwards on his team to get back and let him do his thing play his game. This is why the term is what it is because it will be a while before Hughes establishes himself as the whole store he will be in he will need guys like beagle and Schiller To Keep up the defensive responsibilities. Remember these moves are not always what they seem you guys are all thinking about the forward prospects but the defense are important to me and how can you expect rookie forwards to be defensively responsible? Guys like Dahlen, Gaudette, etc in their first years are probably going to hang Hughes out to dry when he tries to zip down the ice and I think the same thing can be said about Juolevi. Can’t have That so we made some smart signings.
- Status
