GDT: 2018 Free Agency: Jay Beagle 4 x 3M, Antoine Roussel 4 x 3.25M, both w/ limited NTCs

[Bleach Clean]

The big difference is that Shanny was given the power to go completely tear down and rebuild mode and Linden was not...the owner wanted a Sedin farewell tour. I think the culture change MIGHT start this year. in Nuckville..I would like to see the owner give Linden the chance to succeed or fail on his own merits.

Ownership limitations, whether they exist or not, does not absolve Linden.

- He can still make good trades.
- He can still sign good players.
- He can still stockpile picks while cycling veteran assets.

The difference isn't the mode rebuild/retool. It's the execution of that mode.

 

[rimshot]

Ya, that’s exactly the group of players I think of when I’m picturing effective 35+ year olds. Selanne, Jagr, Marleau, Hossa, Thornton, and Jay Beagle. It just rolls off the tongue.

So it is possible to maintain a high level of proficiency at 40 years old for those guys but not for a player that is a reported gym-rat and plays a game that depends more on hockey IQ and experience will not age well. Why is that now? Because it fits a narrative that you have just created? Beagle may well be finished next year, I do not know but I am sure that you do not know what kind of hockey he will be playing at 35 and what exact value he will have. If you do...I still want those lottery numbers.

 

[rimshot]

Ownership limitations, whether they exist or not, does not absolve Linden.

- He can still make good trades.
- He can still sign good players.
- He can still stockpile picks while cycling veteran assets.

The difference isn't the mode rebuild/retool. It's the execution of that mode.

Yes, that is indeed true. Nobody pointed a gun at his head and told him to hire Benning...I don't think

 

[Pip]

The contract is awful but Beagle won’t decline. He’s a gym nut and in the best shape of his life.

But how the actual **** does Riley Nash get less term and money than Beagle. Wtf Benning...garbage.

Beagle will almost certainly decline. It happens to almost every player. The Sedins were in great shape and declined sharply.

 

[I in the Eye]

They won't earn their money this season, let alone 4 years from now.

These were bad contracts, bottom line. $12 million each. If a team was challenging for a cup, would still be an overpayment, but at least could be reasonably justified to load up to 'win now'. No justification makes sense for Vancouver. None.

 

[CanaFan]

So it is possible to maintain a high level of proficiency at 40 years old for those guys but not for a player that is a reported gym-rat and plays a game that depends more on hockey IQ and experience will not age well. Why is that now? Because it fits a narrative that you have just created? Beagle may well be finished next year, I do not know but I am sure that you do not know what kind of hockey he will be playing at 35 and what exact value he will have. If you do...I still want those lottery numbers.

Name some effective 4th line centres over the age of 35.

 

[Hit the post]

We have a logjam of trash. A trashjam.

Logjam of trash on the blueline as well - but at least there's possible elite talent up front (other than Boeser). All the hopes & prayers on the blueline rely on two guys (one guy coming off an injury).

Name some effective 4th line centres over the age of 35.

heh, two guys that had each won the Art Ross trophy fell off the cliff pretty fast after each were in the top 10 in points [Benning's first season]. And these guys were elite talent unlike Beagle.

 

[Lindgren]

Ownership limitations, whether they exist or not, does not absolve Linden.

- He can still make good trades.
- He can still sign good players.
- He can still stockpile picks while cycling veteran assets.

The difference isn't the mode rebuild/retool. It's the execution of that mode.

If they're actually trying to do what Toronto has done, the failure to execute is so extreme it's baffling. I'd say that they've in fact chosen a different mode, the wrong one, and they've compounded the problem by doing a bad job of executing that mode.

 

[Jay Cee]

It is because that was one of his tenets when he came in (ie Dorsett, Sbisa). He goes on about when he acquires a play he thinks has it (Prust, Gudbranson, Sutter). In reality he hasn't generally carried through and acquired much grit, and what he has acquired either wasn't as gritty as he thought (Sutter, Gudbranson) or is long gone (Prust, Dorsett).

That is a fair comment, but it was the exact same lip service from Gillis. I pay attention to such things.

I think the bias exists for Benning that he likes gritty players is because he is a former bruin and this fits in the narrative that he is some kind of backward, traditional GM.

He is something but he isn't good at making a tough hockey team. It is almost an afterthought we pay through the nose for the rare time we seek it.

 

[Cogburn]

Hypothetically...what if they *did* praise those moves.....and then watched them fail............and then learned from it.......................

You give way too much credit to the talking heads at these companies.

Also that would still show that they are not infallible. They were wrong once, it's possible they are wrong again. It doesn't even have to be likely, just possible.

 

[timw33]

Logjam of trash on the blueline as well - but at least there's possible elite talent up front (other than Boeser). All the hopes & prayers on the blueline rely on two guys (one guy coming off an injury).

We're bringing back the same bottom-5 defensive core as last year, and giving at least 2 of them raises. We should be turning over everyone except for Tanev Edler and Biega.

 

[krutovsdonut]

The contract is awful but Beagle won’t decline. He’s a gym nut and in the best shape of his life.

But how the actual **** does Riley Nash get less term and money than Beagle. Wtf Benning...garbage.

either we wanted beagle and roussel more than we wanted nash or nash's agent is a dumbass.

 

[Hit the post]

either we wanted beagle and roussel more than we wanted nash or nash's agent is a dumbass.

I personally think Nash is overrated in any event (granted it is perplexing why he got less).

 

[timw33]

Name some effective 4th line centres over the age of 35.

I can think of one off top of my head and it's Matt Cullen who is a rare player still able to play in his late 30's. He's been making between 800k-1MM to centre the 4th line in the last 4 seasons and still outproduces Beagle by a decent margin.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I think the fact that Riley Nash isn't coming to vancouver might explain why he signed for less than Beagle did, who is coming to Vancouver.

 

[rimshot]

Name some effective 4th line centres over the age of 35.

Plekanic got the Habs a 2nd and then resigned with them...but why does it have to be only 4th line centers, there are lots of wingers over 35 many playing on the 4th, 3rd etc. If you can be an effective 4th line center at that age, you can surely be a winger as well. Perhaps you could tell me why Beagle, in particular, will without a doubt be valueless at 35...that is the real question. 35 is not an automatic death sentence for hockey players,you have admitted as much...then why is Beagle a surefire fail?

 

[CanaFan]

I can think of one off top of my head and it's Matt Cullen who is a rare player still able to play in his late 30's. He's been making between 800k-1MM to centre the 4th line in the last 4 seasons and still outproduces Beagle by a decent margin.

Cullen is fair, though he’s been a good middle 6 Centre for the majority of his career. Age has pushed him down to a 12 minute a night fourth liner. Considering Beagle is already a 4th liner, age will likely push him out of the league entirely.

 

[me2]

That is a fair comment, but it was the exact same lip service from Gillis. I pay attention to such things.

I think the bias exists for Benning that he likes gritty players is because he is a former bruin and this fits in the narrative that he is some kind of backward, traditional GM.

He is something but he isn't good at making a tough hockey team. It is almost an afterthought we pay through the nose for the rare time we seek it.

I have no doubt Benning wanted to add it but just couldn't get it and had to settle for what was left over. Someone like Virtanen is unlikely to be jettisoned as soon as marshmallows like Vey, Baertschi and Granlund which is why the age gappers tend to be of the soft players variety.

He went really hard after Lucic - twice, in part because he had toughness in spades. He overpays for it generally when he can get it. It is likely he wants it, just is not able to get it for what he wants to pay (suitable deals, attracting good UFAs).

 

[Jay Cee]

Ownership limitations, whether they exist or not, does not absolve Linden.

- He can still make good trades.
- He can still sign good players.
- He can still stockpile picks while cycling veteran assets.

The difference isn't the mode rebuild/retool. It's the execution of that mode.

I don't agree with much of your conspiracy stuff but I think this is a basic thing that anyone can agree on if they are sensible at all. Linden isn't the "brains" behind the operation anyway, he is the used car salesman. That's all he has been since he stopped playing.

 

[CanaFan]

Plekanic got the Habs a 2nd and then resigned with them...but why does it have to be only 4th line centers, there are lots of wingers over 35 many playing on the 4th, 3rd etc. If you can be an effective 4th line center at that age, you can surely be a winger as well. Perhaps you could tell me why Beagle, in particular, will without a doubt be valueless at 35...that is the real question. 35 is not an automatic death sentence for hockey players,you have admitted as much...then why is Beagle a surefire fail?

I want to know what guys with limited skills at age 32 (i.e. 4th liners) become when they slow down around age 34-36.

You seem to only be able to list guys who were skilled players or great skaters when they were younger, which Beagle is not.

 

[Hit the post]

I want to know what guys with limited skills at age 32 (i.e. 4th liners) become when they slow down around age 34-36.

You seem to only be able to list guys who were skilled players or great skaters when they were younger, which Beagle is not.

Yeah Pleks put up essentially 1st liner points for a couple seasons in the past. He had much, much, much further to go down to reach the bottom compared to an solid 4C.

 

[rimshot]

I want to know what guys with limited skills at age 32 (i.e. 4th liners) become when they slow down around age 34-36.

You seem to only be able to list guys who were skilled players or great skaters when they were younger, which Beagle is not.

You win....Nucks are effed....Beagle will be of no value and I will never win the lottery

 

[Jay Cee]

Oh Gaunce is already gone in my books. There’s absolutely no room for him with Beagle signed. I doubt they’ll even trade him, probably just hit waivers when rosters need to be finalized.

I still expect one or two wingers to be moved for a 5th round pick or combined with a 4th for someone like Slater Koekkoek.

Maybe goes unclaimed?

 

[CanaFan]

You win....Nucks are effed....Beagle will be of no value and I will never win the lottery

If you think of anyone feel free to let me know. Otherwise it’s not me who’s picking lottery numbers, it’s you.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I don't agree with much of your conspiracy stuff but I think this is a basic thing that anyone can agree on if they are sensible at all. Linden isn't the "brains" behind the operation anyway, he is the used car salesman. That's all he has been since he stopped playing.

My "conspiracy stuff"?

Who is the brains behind the operation, if not Linden? Benning?

@lindgren I think it's obvious that VAN isn't trying to follow what TOR did. TOR rebuilt properly. VAN has been stuck in a perpetual re-tool. Even know. These calls about things changing after the 2017 TDL is a farce. Management has never changed how they have operated.