Tawnos
A guy with a bass
I would guess he wouldn’t be staying in college if he wanted to sign with the team that owns his rights.
Prospect Info: 2018-2019 Rangers Prospects Thread (Stats in Post #1; Updated 4.25.19)
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I would guess he wouldn’t be staying in college if he wanted to sign with the team that owns his rights.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
- Aug 5, 2010
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Agree with everything except I want more than just solid from that vet you mentioned.
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Maybe it’s unfair to call it this early but comparison Stralman seems fair also in terms of Lundkvist developing into “supportive” part of a pair, not the main guy.
Beacon
Embrace the tank
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I know nobody wants to pay anything for Fox, but we gave up a pair of seconds and a B prospect [who just had 78 points in 62 games in the juniors at the time of the trade] for Tim Erixon, who literally declared that he only wants to play for the Rangers.
Erixon was not viewed as anything close to Fox today, nor did Fox say he will only play for the Rangers. Horak was then viewed as similar to Barron today. If we acquire Fox after reaching an agreement that he signs here, we will pay more than what we paid for Timmy.
Fox is a beast. He has 1.5 points as a defenseman on a team where nobody, D or F, has even 1.0 ppg. He has 66% more points in the same number of games as the team's top forward. Name the last case you saw that. He's killing it on a BS team where nobody was drafted in the first round. And he's an RD, the rarest of all positions.
Acquiring a guy with real 1RD potential is better than a few middling prospects we get in the second round, Barron, Gettinger, etc.
Erixon was not viewed as anything close to Fox today, nor did Fox say he will only play for the Rangers. Horak was then viewed as similar to Barron today. If we acquire Fox after reaching an agreement that he signs here, we will pay more than what we paid for Timmy.
Fox is a beast. He has 1.5 points as a defenseman on a team where nobody, D or F, has even 1.0 ppg. He has 66% more points in the same number of games as the team's top forward. Name the last case you saw that. He's killing it on a BS team where nobody was drafted in the first round. And he's an RD, the rarest of all positions.
Acquiring a guy with real 1RD potential is better than a few middling prospects we get in the second round, Barron, Gettinger, etc.
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I'm kind of on your side. I agree Fox would be worth more than 2 2nd's and Barron. He would become our 2nd highest ranked prospect according to TSN, The Athletic, and ESPN. I don't think we would trade Miller, who basically every ranking considers a worse prospect than Fox, for 2 2nd's and a guy like Barron. My 2 issues are:
1) Do we have to give up that much given our leverage in this situation? Bob McKenzie suggested a 2nd or a 3rd and the local Carolina reporter suggested a 2nd, so it seems like we should be able to get Fox for less. In that case giving up 2 2nd's and a solid prospect feels like we wouldn't be taking advantage of the leverage we have. Obviously, the Erixon trade is a solid counterpoint, but in that case Erixon would have re-entered the draft instead of becoming a UFA if he didn't sign with Calgary, so it's not exactly the same. For whatever it's worth, we actually ended up losing the Erixon trade since Markus Granlund was the only player involved to stick in the NHL too.
2) We would have to be absolutely certain he would sign with us if, as you mentioned above, but we'd also have to feel like there is some risk that he wouldn't sign with us if we didn't trade for him. In the case of the Erixon trade, because he would have re-entered the draft instead of becoming a UFA, it wasn't guaranteed that we'd get him if we didn't acquire him via trade. In the case of Fox, it seems like there is some chance that if we don't trade for him, we would still get him in a year and not have to give up anything. If that's the case, I think there's a good argument that we should be a little stingier about what we give up. On the other hand, if there is a possibility that Fox would consider signing with another team either now or after sitting out a year, we should be willing to pay more.
Personally, my feeling is that the world can change more than you expect and we shouldn't risk screwing up a potentially fantastic situation that's fallen into our laps. So if we can get Fox for a package that's clearly worth less than he is, I'd do it and count ourselves lucky that a gift like that fell into our laps instead of rolling the dice and risking getting nothing out of a winning lottery ticket. My hope is that would be more along the lines of a 2nd or something like one our of our non-Miller left D prospects and a late pick, but if we had to give up 2 2nd's and Barron to get Fox, I'd do it.
Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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The Stralman comparison is a but weak in my opinion. Aside from both being Swedish and the Rangers connection I don't see it.
No, that’s waaaay to much for a player that’s declared he’s not signing with Canes... a late 2nd is the most i give up.
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I see it - watched more than a dozen of Lundkvist’s games this season. Regardless I was talking about just one specific aspect. As I said maybe it’s because he’s just a teen in a grown men pro league and tries to stay within his role but he doesn’t show ability or desire to control his shifts keeping puck on his stick.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Yeah. Not a lot of 18 year olds do. Dahlin and maybe Hedman were the only ones I remember doing so in the SHL at that age. Not even Erik Karlsson did that. I think Lundkvist has the potential to be a top-pair D man in the NHL but it will depend on how he develops in the next 2-3 years.
His style of hockey is more mature than Miller, which should make the transition easier for him
Here’s my concern.
DeAngelo 5’11 180 (although he plays much bigger and meaner so I don’t worry as much about him.
Fox 5’11 175
Pionk 6’0 180
Shattenkirk 6’0 200
Lundkvist 5’11 176
Keane 6’0 180
This right side is SMALL. They’re extremely skilled but they are small and none of them are what you’d consider good defensively.
It’s funny but this is the toughest type of guy to get in the league. Talented offensive righty dmen.
Imo you have to bring in some size and some defensive awareness to that side.
I think if you’re serious about fox you have to move Shattenkirk AND Pionk. I’d actually like to see us look at Tyler Myers more than karlsson. I think Myers is a perfect fit for Brady Skjei.
Let’s staal and DeAngelo stay together
Then put hajek with Fox on the third pair
Smith as your 7th dman 12/13 forward.
Myers is a heck of a player and the type of guy we don’t have. Can help nurture this group.
DeAngelo 5’11 180 (although he plays much bigger and meaner so I don’t worry as much about him.
Fox 5’11 175
Pionk 6’0 180
Shattenkirk 6’0 200
Lundkvist 5’11 176
Keane 6’0 180
This right side is SMALL. They’re extremely skilled but they are small and none of them are what you’d consider good defensively.
It’s funny but this is the toughest type of guy to get in the league. Talented offensive righty dmen.
Imo you have to bring in some size and some defensive awareness to that side.
I think if you’re serious about fox you have to move Shattenkirk AND Pionk. I’d actually like to see us look at Tyler Myers more than karlsson. I think Myers is a perfect fit for Brady Skjei.
Let’s staal and DeAngelo stay together
Then put hajek with Fox on the third pair
Smith as your 7th dman 12/13 forward.
Myers is a heck of a player and the type of guy we don’t have. Can help nurture this group.
With Erixon we kind of bid against ourselves and overpaid. It was okay, though, because you know he wanted to play here and the thought was we were getting a guy very close to ready who could anchor a second pair for a decade. Obviously that wasn't the case.
Fox, apparently he'd like to play here, but without being very sure he'd sign, you just can't gamble on him with significant assets. If he doesn't sign you're f***ed. Literally NOTHING to show. At least with Erixon we were able to later flip him as a part of another deal.
I'm okay giving up good assets for Fox if they can determine that he definitely will sign here. If there's legitimate doubt that he will, my offer is some pick (conditional on him signing--maybe a second that becomes a sixth if he doesn't sign) and a B-/C+ prospect or someone like Lettieri. But that's it, for me, personally. I need to be pretty certain before pulling the trigger on him.
Fox, apparently he'd like to play here, but without being very sure he'd sign, you just can't gamble on him with significant assets. If he doesn't sign you're f***ed. Literally NOTHING to show. At least with Erixon we were able to later flip him as a part of another deal.
I'm okay giving up good assets for Fox if they can determine that he definitely will sign here. If there's legitimate doubt that he will, my offer is some pick (conditional on him signing--maybe a second that becomes a sixth if he doesn't sign) and a B-/C+ prospect or someone like Lettieri. But that's it, for me, personally. I need to be pretty certain before pulling the trigger on him.
on fox...is there any real evidence that he just doesn't want to play for carolina and is trying to force his way out vs he legitimately wants to return for his senior year to graduate?
GeorgeKaplan
Registered User
LaffyTaffy
Brooklyn-Belarussian
Back when we thought there was zero chance of Fox being a Ranger we gushed over his crazy potential. Now he's Justin Schultz? I think he has top 4 potential, but I just don't think we should pay anything more than Dallas' 3rd rounder for him.
Edit: And btw Schultz had a 50 point season, I would take that any day.
Edit: And btw Schultz had a 50 point season, I would take that any day.
GeorgeKaplan
Registered User
@Beacon the big difference in Erixon and Fox’s situations are that even though Erixon made it clear he wanted to be a Ranger, he was about to go back into the draft, where Fox will just be a UFA in a year
My understanding from what I've read is that Fox would like to sign a deal this year, he's just refusing to do so with Carolina. He doesn't want to wait another year. But even that isn't concrete--like no one has said "Fox has stated (privately or publicly) that he wants to sign now rather than return for another year." And that's exactly the kind of uncertainty that makes me leery of giving up anything of substance for him. Until there's more clarity and certainty, it's too much of a risk. IMO, anyway.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
I ain't trading a pick that has a conditional to turn into a first, especially when it has agood chance of triggering.
This is a reasonable question. I would say the fact that the Carolina owner has said the team will try to move Fox is an indication that Fox has told Carolina he will not sign with them. If Fox told the Canes he would sign with them after he completes his senior year the team would hold onto him.
- Aug 5, 2010
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Hughes had a goal last night, but Victoria lost and is down 3-0 to the Spruce Kings.
ok thats good to know cause obviously you don't want to trade for his rights and then find out he is going back to school anyway
Did Nils Lundkvist die?
Nah somehow overlooked him and thought he was LD
I think looking forward if your left side has some bigger guys who are more solid defensively then I worry about the size of the right side less.
Hajek, Skjei, Miller, Rykov are probably the most talented guys on that side and they're all 6'2 or bigger. Reunanen is a bit smaller but ultimately I'd rather roll the dice with a bunch of skilled players than to fret about finding the next Dan Girardi to block a bunch of shots and have bad analytics
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