2018-19 Roster talk; Part two

[Tripod]

Maybe I’m overreacting, but JVR looks out of shape in that photo.

Another pic..looks fine. You can sleep easy.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I don't really get the people who think Weal stinks. He really doesn't. He was the 6th most productive forward on the team at 5v5. He had more p/60 than Simmonds, Raffl, Lindblom, Laughton, Filppula. His possession stats are average, and he also had a fairly low PDO this year. He isn't great, but he is passable in a bottom-6 role. Weal won't be and shouldn't be a longterm part of the team, but people who group him with Lethera, Weise and Filppula are wrong.

Yeah no idea. I have more confidence in him being productive at ES than I do Simmonds.

His 3 most common linemates were Simmonds who was awful 5v5 last year, Patrick who at the time was one of the worst players in the league at driving play, and Val Filppula who was absolute garbage all year long and dragged everyone he played with to hell.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don’t really think it can really be stated how much of an addition by subtraction Filppula is. The dude drug everyone down last year even including Voracek who’s generally a pretty good play driver.

 

[deadhead]

I don't really get the people who think Weal stinks. He really doesn't. He was the 6th most productive forward on the team at 5v5. He had more p/60 than Simmonds, Raffl, Lindblom, Laughton, Filppula. His possession stats are average, and he also had a fairly low PDO this year. He isn't great, but he is passable in a bottom-6 role. Weal won't be and shouldn't be a longterm part of the team, but people who group him with Lethera, Weise and Filppula are wrong.

Weal is a try hard guy who worked hard to make it to the NHL, but like Cousins, he's just physically limited. I think one reason Cousins was traded was Weal, you don't need a lot of smaller centers with average speed on your roster.

He could fill in for one year at 3C because he's smart, a good playmaker and with good wings (Lindblom, Simmonds would fit well with his skill set) could score at a decent rate, but he'll also be vulnerable matched up against bigger, faster centers.

Lindblom's PP/60 should take a big jump this season, like Sanheim, he generated chances but couldn't finish, which isn't exactly rare among rookies.

Weal at 3C should be an upgrade over Filppula simply b/c he won't play as many minutes with Couts and Patrick getting the lion's share of PT. So it'll be easier to shelter him.

 

[deadhead]

Which Weal might do...and Vorobyev won't do. Frost could likely do it as well all things considered.

But Laughton also brings speed, forechecking, and some defensive ability. With Lindblom on his left that's a pretty solid proposition.

Laughton is a better goal scorer than Vorobyev (right now) but Vorobyev is a natural playmaking center who'll make his linemates better once he acclimates to the NHL. When he's ready to come up (October or January), he'll be a better center than Laughton.

I'm sure someone can post some highlights of Vorobyev passing, some guys have "it" when it comes to playmaking, they just have that sense of the ice where they know where their linemates are going to be and can get the puck to them - Vorobyev is one of those guys.

 

[Striiker]

DH said the same thing about weise and couts lol. But then again if we had couts elevating some grinder, would we even make the playoffs? Did Jake enable Bellamers skill into a better scoring? Should he do the same for Laughton and we watch Patrick and Simmonds get reunited?

Huh?

I’m not saying to put him in the top 6 with our best players... I’m saying to put him with a center better than Lehtera or Filppula. Like I said before, Vorobyev could be the 4C with Laughton on his LW. Even that would be a large upgrade on what he had to work with last year.

 

[Striiker]

I don't really get the people who think Weal stinks. He really doesn't. He was the 6th most productive forward on the team at 5v5. He had more p/60 than Simmonds, Raffl, Lindblom, Laughton, Filppula. His possession stats are average, and he also had a fairly low PDO this year. He isn't great, but he is passable in a bottom-6 role. Weal won't be and shouldn't be a longterm part of the team, but people who group him with Lethera, Weise and Filppula are wrong.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Another pic..looks fine. You can sleep easy.

He looks thick & strong, but not exactly in tip top shape. I’d hate to have another Voracek situation.

 

[Danko]

He looks thick & strong, but not exactly in tip top shape. I’d hate to have another Voracek situation.

Sweet Jesus.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Sweet Jesus.

As sweet as the BBQ sauce on JVR’s rack of baby backs. I’m still in favor of the signing, but it reminds me a little bit of a summer pic of Voracek two years ago, & that slight worry ended up completely validated, unfortunately.

 

[Flyotes]

I don't really get the people who think Weal stinks. He really doesn't. He was the 6th most productive forward on the team at 5v5. He had more p/60 than Simmonds, Raffl, Lindblom, Laughton, Filppula. His possession stats are average, and he also had a fairly low PDO this year. He isn't great, but he is passable in a bottom-6 role. Weal won't be and shouldn't be a longterm part of the team, but people who group him with Lethera, Weise and Filppula are wrong.

I've soured on Weal a bit. You listed some of the reasons.

-Average possession stats
-6th "most productive" on 5on5 on a bad 5on5 team
-More p/60 than a PP player, Raffl, young forward, an inconsistent forward, and garbage (glowing endorsement)
-Passable at the buttend of the roster
-Not a longterm piece of the team
-Not quite "waste of a contract" bad
-I'll include that he's small and always has a disadvantage fighting for the puck defensively

Gee, where can I pick up this jersey?

 

[Striiker]

All this positive Weal talk is unacceptable.

He had a worse DPPG than either Filppula or Lehtera last year. Historically low, since the stat started being recorded.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

When they played him at center last year I thought he looks really good. also he has played center his whole career and only wing at the NHL level

This is true for tons of NHL wingers, I wouldn't even be surprised if it was the majority. If you are good enough to eventually play in the NHL you have probably been the best player on your team at almost every lower level you have played. Normally you play your best forwards at center, that's the reason most guys have played their careers there.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I've soured on Weal a bit. You listed some of the reasons.

-Average possession stats
-6th "most productive" on 5on5 on a bad 5on5 team
-More p/60 than a PP player, Raffl, young forward, an inconsistent forward, and garbage (glowing endorsement)
-Passable at the buttend of the roster
-Not a longterm piece of the team
-Not quite "waste of a contract" bad
-I'll include that he's small and always has a disadvantage fighting for the puck defensively

Gee, where can I pick up this jersey?

Not sure what point you are trying to make here.

Average possession stats: Don't see what point you are trying to make. Average = Not bad. Average possession stats for a bottom-6 player is perfectly fine.

6th "most productive" on 5on5 on a bad 5on5 team: No, we are an average 5v5 team. 16thGF/9thGA at 5v5. So you are wrong.

More p/60 than a PP player, Raffl, young forward, an inconsistent forward, and garbage (glowing endorsement): Statistically speaking Raffl is a very solid bottom-6 forward. Pretty terrible point you made.

Passable at the buttend of the roster: Passable is what we want at this stage. Only a couple prospects are close to ready and he is better than most of our current bottom-6.

Not a longterm piece of the team: Yeah and? He is fine for the next year. Then he is gone.

Not quite "waste of a contract" bad: His contract is literally fine. He is only being paid 1.75M. What is that like 2% of the cap?

I'll include that he's small and always has a disadvantage fighting for the puck defensively: He fights for the puck better than most of our bottom-6. He has a low center of gravity and does a fairly good job battling. Don't let Deadhead fool ya, he isn't getting manhandled in the corners.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Another pic..looks fine. You can sleep easy.

You know who that is? That is the fat kid who is good at sports.

 

[Striiker]

Weal’s also ugly.

 

[Larry44]

I've soured on Weal a bit. You listed some of the reasons.

-Average possession stats
-6th "most productive" on 5on5 on a bad 5on5 team
-More p/60 than a PP player, Raffl, young forward, an inconsistent forward, and garbage (glowing endorsement)
-Passable at the buttend of the roster
-Not a longterm piece of the team
-Not quite "waste of a contract" bad
-I'll include that he's small and always has a disadvantage fighting for the puck defensively

Gee, where can I pick up this jersey?

Weal's going to be great next year in Europe. He has a good game every once in a while, like Filppula did. Big deal. He won't be on the team next year, and for sure when they are contending, so let's just throw out the trash and move on and get some of the kids some experience.

The Flyers aren't winning the Cup this year with sieves they are going to use in net, so it's just another development year - play the friggin' kids until the goaltending gets sorted. I'd be happy if they use Laughton at 3C and just audition all the kids at 4c: Voro, Vecchione, Bardreau, and see who sticks.

 

[Flyotes]

Not sure what point you are trying to make here.

Average possession stats: Don't see what point you are trying to make. Average = Not bad. Average possession stats for a bottom-6 player is perfectly fine.

6th "most productive" on 5on5 on a bad 5on5 team: No, we are an average 5v5 team. 16thGF/9thGA at 5v5. So you are wrong.

More p/60 than a PP player, Raffl, young forward, an inconsistent forward, and garbage (glowing endorsement): Statistically speaking Raffl is a very solid bottom-6 forward. Pretty terrible point you made.

Passable at the buttend of the roster: Passable is what we want at this stage. Only a couple prospects are close to ready and he is better than most of our current bottom-6.

Not a longterm piece of the team: Yeah and? He is fine for the next year. Then he is gone.

Not quite "waste of a contract" bad: His contract is literally fine. He is only being paid 1.75M. What is that like 2% of the cap?

I'll include that he's small and always has a disadvantage fighting for the puck defensively: He fights for the puck better than most of our bottom-6. He has a low center of gravity and does a fairly good job battling. Don't let Deadhead fool ya, he isn't getting manhandled in the corners.

I said I've soured a bit. I'm not making the case he is bad.

This team flounders 5on5. It's a chore to watch. I've watched good 5on5 teams. This team isn't one of those teams yet. Probably due to coaching. If they managed to get production anyway, it's in spite of how lukewarm they are 5on5. Numerical production isn't the same thing as quality. By that rationale, a pigeon player who isn't a well-rounded NHLer who scores more goals would somehow be better than a guy who scores slightly less goals, but plays all 200 feet. Last year, this team wasn't a complete player @ 5on5.

Passable isn't a glowing endorsement. I expected Weal to be better. Given the style of player he is, he has to make up for it in other ways, which he only "kind of" does. Ergo, soured.

You're strawmanning me a bit. My complaint isn't about how much money he makes. I'm remarking on how you are putting him just ahead of other players, one of whom is a literal cap dump transaction player. Again, not a ringing endorsement. I wouldn't want you as my lawyer.

He can battle all he wants-- he's not talented enough to do it well all the time with his size, which vacillates somewhere between being okay to being a problem, which is, I suppose, not the worst thing in the world if he doesn't get a lot of minutes. So, I'm meh here.

That being said, I hope I can return to my former opinion of thinking he could be a minor "something" for the team.

 

[CS]

Laughton is a better goal scorer than Vorobyev (right now) but Vorobyev is a natural playmaking center who'll make his linemates better once he acclimates to the NHL. When he's ready to come up (October or January), he'll be a better center than Laughton.

Doubtful. I give it at least another year or two before he's a better forward overall than Laughton for the 3C though admittedly he is a better playmaker. At that point it's going to be Frost's job anyway...or else something went horribly wrong.

I'm sure someone can post some highlights of Vorobyev passing, some guys have "it" when it comes to playmaking, they just have that sense of the ice where they know where their linemates are going to be and can get the puck to them - Vorobyev is one of those guys.

"It" is not tangible. "It" is something that isn't always "it" unless it gets more consistent with age. I've seen Dan Carcillo deke. The metric you should be looking for is based on frequency. How frequently can player "A" perform against a specific level of competition in regards to a specific metric. The greater the level of consistency, the less we bitch about their performance. It stands to reason that younger players without much NHL experience, especially ones without extremely high levels of skill, struggle to consistently play at a level you'd want or would expect from someone with more experience.

 

[CS]

You know who that is? That is the fat kid who is good at sports.

We finally kicked the tires on Pat Maroon?

 

[Stizzle]

I'm not anti-Weal. He's ok. I just can't envision Hak using him in that role. This all feels like lip service from Hextall.

Do we really think Hak would use a player of Weal's profile and history as the 3C? Hak is a close-minded dinosaur. He has a rigid, old school mentality.

If you handed Hak, for example, Brayden Point last year in training camp he would have still used Filp instead. That's just who Hak is.

 

[Striiker]

I'm not anti-Weal. He's ok. I just can't envision Hak using him in that role. This all feels like lip service from Hextall.

Do we really think Hak would use a player of Weal's profile and history as the 3C? Hak is a close-minded dinosaur. He has a rigid, old school mentality.

If you handed Hak, for example, Brayden Point last year in training camp he would have still used Filp instead. That's just who Hak is.

Maybe Hextall is talking him up to boost trade value

 

[deadhead]

Don't let Deadhead fool ya, he isn't getting manhandled in the corners.

That's because he's rarely in the corners.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Weal's going to be great next year in Europe. He has a good game every once in a while, like Filppula did. Big deal. He won't be on the team next year, and for sure when they are contending, so let's just throw out the trash and move on and get some of the kids some experience.

The Flyers aren't winning the Cup this year with sieves they are going to use in net, so it's just another development year - play the friggin' kids until the goaltending gets sorted. I'd be happy if they use Laughton at 3C and just audition all the kids at 4c: Voro, Vecchione, Bardreau, and see who sticks.

Wait you dump on Weal, but want to see guys like Vecchione and Bardreau who are only a year younger (not even in Mike's case) and haven't accomplished half of what Weal has accomplished at lower levels?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think Weal is surprisingly strong on the puck for his size, particularly when he is in possession of it. Maybe not so much with winning it in the corners, though. His biggest downside last season, IMO, was he didn’t seem as fast. Maybe he didn’t have the same confidence as the season prior, when he tore up the AHL as a key offensive player before his very good call up.