News Article: 2017 Training Camp & Pre-Season Discussion

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There is no information suggesting there is any interest in Staal...not a single rumor. That alone speaks volumes.
I disagree. I think that "speaks volumes" only when a team has made it clear that a player is available. Generally you don't hear those rumors about players with NMCs because they are believed to be unavailable.

I just don't think there is enough information here to judge his interest around the league. If the Rangers had made it clear he's available, especially if they're willing to eat salary, then if the response is the sound of crickets I would agree with you.
 
No, I don't think it would stand to reason. Not with the Rangers' front office being notoriously close-lipped about this sort of thing. I don't think there is enough information to state that there is no interest around the league, and I don't think 'common sense' is a phrase that can be applied to this situation, as it is a rather complex one.

Didnt stop the media from picking up on the Rangers shopping Stepan.

The NMC is obviously a factor, but the deal breaker is that Staal is a player who would struggle to keep up in the AHL.
 
You are making presumptions. I can safely say, there is no interest, because there is no proof of any interest. You are adding qualifications as to why there is no interest. If you want to create scenarios of why there may be no actual evidence of interest, so be it. Again, show me even a scintilla of a rumor or speculation and I will agree with your position. Until that rears it's head, I'll stick with the idea there is no interest from teams wanting to trade for Staal to put on their 3rd defensive pairing.
 
You are making presumptions. I can safely say, there is no interest, because there is no proof of any interest. You are adding qualifications as to why there is no interest. If you want to create scenarios of why there may be no actual evidence of interest, so be it. Again, show me even a scintilla of a rumor or speculation and I will agree with your position. Until that rears it's head, I'll stick with the idea there is no interest from teams wanting to trade for Staal to put on their 3rd defensive pairing.

For real.

The NMC is just the skunk spray to the dog turd that is Marc Staal's on ice ability/commitment left on his deal. Even if you take away the NMC, no one will want to approach Staal because his play/contract still really stink.

The only situation that makes sense for a team to bring him is a rebuilding team that needs a veteran presence. Even then, there are probably dozens of better options available, even at half of his current salary.
 
You seriously think that Bereglazov is somehow more ready than Pionk? Pionk handily outplayed him.

Outplayed him where? They both were bad at Traverse, I think Pionk got three more preseason games. In the one game they both played, they played about the same, and I think most of the comments here support that opinion, if you go back and read the assessments from that game.
 
Outplayed him where? They both were bad at Traverse, I think Pionk got three more preseason games. In the one game they both played, they played about the same, and I think most of the comments here support that opinion, if you go back and read the assessments from that game.
The consensus was that Bereglazov sucked
 
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Speaking to the media is part of their job. If you were running the organization the team would finish dead last every year, draft awful players, sign awful players and eventually go bankrupt.

If I was running the organization, this team would not be in no mans land where they aren't good enough to win the Cup, but also don't pick high enough to draft the best players. You seem to be fine with early exits every year.
 
Outplayed him where? They both were bad at Traverse, I think Pionk got three more preseason games. In the one game they both played, they played about the same, and I think most of the comments here support that opinion, if you go back and read the assessments from that game.

I didn't think Pionk was bad at TC.

At the very least, he wasn't nearly a bad as Beargloves was. Pionk was better during Pre season too, even in the one game that they both played together.

Beargloves should have definitely gotten another game though.
 
lol What in the world, it's not the gestapo

Some people aren't socially awkward; some people enjoy showing their new fans, management, friends, family, etc. that they are improving at a new language and acclimating well to a new lifestyle.

Nick Saban does it, I've heard about it being done in football (soccer), as well.

What you claimed has nothing to do with this situation. Its not that uncommon, its a pretty smart strategy to make sure guys who aren't accustomed to the big spotlight, and in some cases relevant to our team, might not understand the language well, aren't being "gotcha'ed" by the media.
 
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The consensus was that Bereglazov sucked

In the one game he got? No, I just don't agree. Go back and look at the comments. A few who always overreact to big defensive defensemen were saying the typical "big, can't move or skate", but those who watched closely thought he was about average in that game, a game where I think all the young defensemen (DeAngelo, Graves, Pionk, Bereglazov) played a part in a goal against. None were particularly good in that game.

Regardless, as I've said many times, I don't think preseason is a great judge of who should play where, especially when you have a player who is playing his first games on NA ice and can't converse with his teammates. I think we should take his body of work, which is that of a good KHL defensemen. Last preseason, many here wanted Gilmour to start in the NHL and Skjei in the AHL.

I don't know if he deserved to make the team, there was a lot of competition this year, but surely he didn't deserve to be cut before Kampfer and Crawley, thats kind of ridiculous. I would've liked to see more, and then if he didn't deserve a spot, he didn't deserve a spot, but he wasn't given any chance, which is strange.
 
I didn't think Pionk was bad at TC.

At the very least, he wasn't nearly a bad as Beargloves was. Pionk was better during Pre season too, even in the one game that they both played together.

Beargloves should have definitely gotten another game though.

I thought everyone was bad in that tournament, besides Crawley and the goalies. There were way too many defensive mistakes from all the defensemen, Pionk included. And there was zero offense. No one in that tournament who had a chance to start on the NHL team played as you'd expect of a player who'd start in the NHL, which is okay, as I just said, the tournament essentially means nothing.
 
I don't think it was just the one game. It was also...

1) People being let down after being so optimistic about Bereglazov stepping right in that we voted him the #6 ranked prospect
2) Gorton pretty close to calling BG out specifically for being a disappointment against young competition in the traverse tournament
3) People thinking that positional, stick checking defensemen like Staal and Bereglazov were a better fit in a different system and era than the one we're in presently.

Hopefully they keep a line open with Hartford so that when the time comes, the best performing defender down there gets called up. Will be tough as AV will be very comfortable using Holden as a fill-in. As much as NYR fans like to complain about Nick on twitter, he's one of the best options as a first fill in at D in the league. Can play both sides, chips in offense, occasional gaffe. That's a huge step up from Bickel, Strudwick, Gilroy, Woywitka, Eminger, and other #7s we've had over the years.
 
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You are making presumptions. I can safely say, there is no interest, because there is no proof of any interest. You are adding qualifications as to why there is no interest. If you want to create scenarios of why there may be no actual evidence of interest, so be it. Again, show me even a scintilla of a rumor or speculation and I will agree with your position. Until that rears it's head, I'll stick with the idea there is no interest from teams wanting to trade for Staal to put on their 3rd defensive pairing.
I'm not suggesting there IS interest. I'm simply saying you can't rule it out. There is no way to prove the absence of something, and there are mitigating factors here.

I, personally, doubt there is interest. I guess I was simply playing devil's advocate.
 
In the one game he got? No, I just don't agree. Go back and look at the comments. A few who always overreact to big defensive defensemen were saying the typical "big, can't move or skate", but those who watched closely thought he was about average in that game, a game where I think all the young defensemen (DeAngelo, Graves, Pionk, Bereglazov) played a part in a goal against. None were particularly good in that game.

Regardless, as I've said many times, I don't think preseason is a great judge of who should play where, especially when you have a player who is playing his first games on NA ice and can't converse with his teammates. I think we should take his body of work, which is that of a good KHL defensemen. Last preseason, many here wanted Gilmour to start in the NHL and Skjei in the AHL.

I don't know if he deserved to make the team, there was a lot of competition this year, but surely he didn't deserve to be cut before Kampfer and Crawley, thats kind of ridiculous. I would've liked to see more, and then if he didn't deserve a spot, he didn't deserve a spot, but he wasn't given any chance, which is strange.

If preaseason isn't a good judge of who should play where, why does it matter if he "wasn't given a chance?" You should be happy with him getting time to adjust with low pressure in the A where the media won't bother him and his bad english.
 
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I'm not suggesting there IS interest. I'm simply saying you can't rule it out. There is no way to prove the absence of something, and there are mitigating factors here.

I, personally, doubt there is interest. I guess I was simply playing devil's advocate.
Fair enough. And if Staal gets traded tomorrow, my argument gets blown up.
 
If preaseason isn't a good judge of who should play where, why does it matter if he "wasn't given a chance?" You should be happy with him getting time to adjust with low pressure in the A where the media won't bother him and his bad english.

Huh? Why should I be happy? I don't particularly care, I'm just saying he wasn't given a chance, which I don't think anyone disagrees with.

Preseason matters to break a tie, but I don't know why anyone would think Pionk was more ready for the NHL than Bereglazov, there was no tie to break in the first place. How often are any of these NCAA guys ready right away? Vesey won the Hobey Baker and a lot still thought he could've used some AHL time. Pionk clearly wasn't NHL ready, and then you consider he's a smaller player who might struggle physically. Bereglazov was probably like a top 20-30 defensemen in a better league than the AHL last season, along with not having the size concerns to start that Pionk had. If he was that in the AHL, he would've been given a good chance to make the NHL team, I don't know why anyone wouldn't think he's not ready to play at the NHL level. Maybe he'd struggle with adjustment to different ice and culture, but why would his hockey not be good enough? That makes no sense. I don't know nor care who would be better eventually, but I think its naive to say Pionk was more NHL ready.
 
For real.

The NMC is just the skunk spray to the dog turd that is Marc Staal's on ice ability/commitment left on his deal. Even if you take away the NMC, no one will want to approach Staal because his play/contract still really stink.

The only situation that makes sense for a team to bring him is a rebuilding team that needs a veteran presence. Even then, there are probably dozens of better options available, even at half of his current salary.

Right now, Holden is better value at Staal's AAV than Staal himself is, which is essentially what you'd be getting if Staal had been bought out and Holden was the 3rd pairing LD.
 
The guy stunk.. Comeòn! - Blueshirt Underground special, Jim. :)
So many who are excited for new season now, hehe. :cheers:
 
Huh? Why should I be happy? I don't particularly care, I'm just saying he wasn't given a chance, which I don't think anyone disagrees with.

Preseason matters to break a tie, but I don't know why anyone would think Pionk was more ready for the NHL than Bereglazov, there was no tie to break in the first place. How often are any of these NCAA guys ready right away? Vesey won the Hobey Baker and a lot still thought he could've used some AHL time. Pionk clearly wasn't NHL ready, and then you consider he's a smaller player who might struggle physically. Bereglazov was probably like a top 20-30 defensemen in a better league than the AHL last season, along with not having the size concerns to start that Pionk had. If he was that in the AHL, he would've been given a good chance to make the NHL team, I don't know why anyone wouldn't think he's not ready to play at the NHL level. Maybe he'd struggle with adjustment to different ice and culture, but why would his hockey not be good enough? That makes no sense. I don't know nor care who would be better eventually, but I think its naive to say Pionk was more NHL ready.

I'm starting to wonder exactly how much better the KHL is than the AHL. As recently discussed in the Shesterkin thread, the KHL is dominated by a handful of teams that slaughter the rest of the league. One could make an argument that Bear Gloves is accustomed to playing against crap competition in an overrated league. It might not just be the size of the rink that's giving him issues; it could be the quality of the competition. He may not perform much better in the AHL.
 
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I'm starting to wonder exactly how much better the KHL is than the AHL. As recently discussed in the Shesterkin thread, the KHL is dominated by a handful of teams that slaughter the rest of the league. One could make an argument that Bear Gloves is accustomed to playing against crap competition in an overrated league. It might not just be the size of the rink that's giving him issues; it could be the quality of the competition. He may not perform much better in the AHL.

He performed pretty well in the finals against the best team in the league, but I think you are right that the AHL has better depth throughout the teams, the KHL's best players are much better. I think the same thing applies to the SHL, the depth is more spread out, but the KHL's best players are much better.
 
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Huh? Why should I be happy? I don't particularly care, I'm just saying he wasn't given a chance, which I don't think anyone disagrees with.

Preseason matters to break a tie, but I don't know why anyone would think Pionk was more ready for the NHL than Bereglazov, there was no tie to break in the first place. How often are any of these NCAA guys ready right away? Vesey won the Hobey Baker and a lot still thought he could've used some AHL time. Pionk clearly wasn't NHL ready, and then you consider he's a smaller player who might struggle physically. Bereglazov was probably like a top 20-30 defensemen in a better league than the AHL last season, along with not having the size concerns to start that Pionk had. If he was that in the AHL, he would've been given a good chance to make the NHL team, I don't know why anyone wouldn't think he's not ready to play at the NHL level. Maybe he'd struggle with adjustment to different ice and culture, but why would his hockey not be good enough? That makes no sense. I don't know nor care who would be better eventually, but I think its naive to say Pionk was more NHL ready.

I never said his hockey isn't good enough, or that Pionk is/will be better. Beargloves is certainly better than Staal and Holden right now, but I don't see an argument for him over anyone else on the roster (besides Kampfer obviously)

I would prefer him to adjust in the AHL over the NHL, if he seemed to adapt quickly like Chytil has, fine, but a year in the A won't hurt. Let him be as good as last year on NA ice.
 
A couple of things on Beargloves:

-TCT is good if you know what you should look for. It's an unorganized chaotic game in a sense played late in the summer with players that don't each other, if you are coming from a pro league to a large extent you will skate around a lot wondering what's going on around you. If you scout a player, you cannot pull up a score card and chalk up "good" and "bad" plays and then check the bottom line. It's ridiculous. Watch the player, how does he moves etc. Buch was trashed in Traverse last season, why? People saw him play 5 shifts in a row and not make a good play, maybe lose a puck, so they trashed him and declared him a bust. We got a thread on it, just go back and check.

When you read reports from TCT from a fan that goes like, "we gave up another one, who has number xx? He sucks he just stood there", it's a completely worthless report plain and simple. If nobody on the ice is doing the right things really, the right way to play is not to do the right things. Then you are counting on others to do their job, which they aren't.

Last year our best kid was declared a bust, it's not possible to get it more wrong than that. My point in, don't read too much into reports of Beargloves being a completely worthless player. Take my word for it.

-Second of all, of you have any history of following Europeans and especially Russian players go to NA you know that it's very difficult to estimate how long it will take for them to adjust to the NA game -- and certainly to some extent how well they will be able to adjust too. I covered this at length before Buch made that jump, it can take some time.

For a D like Beargloves there are two main issues. One is that the NHL game is much quicker than the KHL games. When the play turns, you really need to move those legs to get back nowadays. This is an adjustment for him, there is no time to think, evaluate what's happening, if it looks like someone is beating your team to a puck in the attacking zone, bam bam bam bam you must hammer those backskating strides against the ice to gain a good 10 frets before in no time the puck can be shipped out and the race is off.

Another issue is that net battles are much tougher in NA than in Europe. Smaller ice, less finesse plays, from a young ice you practice on partly different type of plays. NAs have improved their ability infront of the net more than Europeans. There is room for more specialists in NA hockey there. A KHL D must pick it up in this area, in a situation where the puck goes into the goalies lap, in the KHL you might be able to turn up and shield the goalie, while in NA it might be more about stopping someone kamikazying into the crease right.

The notion driven by many is that Beargloves was the worst ever at TCT which was proven by the fact that he was cut from camp. I don't agree with that notion at all. We know that Clarke and Gorton was really high on him, I've seen a lot of him myself and there is a reason for it. It's a very capable young defender who combines a solid defensive game with great reach and a heady game with the puck really well. I've seen him play a lot at a very high level. He is certainly capable in many ways. The other guy we where hunting, Andreas Borgman, have done a great job in Toronto and about a week ago I heard that he might make that team. I liked Borgman a lot like I reported many times, and in a sense he might be the type who stands out more in a smaller sample size and has a bit easier time to prove himself in the NHL than Beargloves. But Borgman could not even remotely handle the same role as Beargloves did in the KHL. Play 25 minutes against really really good players, get the job done defensively, move the puck up ice fairly well, and so forth. Borgman would have made 10 great plays and finnished a series against SKA -15 if put in that role, and everyone knows I like him and think he has NHL potential. My point is just that there -- without any doubt -- is a lot of quality in Beargloves as player even if it is fair to raise some question marks too. But there is no basis for speculating on if the KHL really sucks and Beargloves happened to be a worthless player.

Will he come back and prove a lot of people wrong? Who knows. First of all, he definitely do not have potential to become a top D. At most his potential have always been that prototypic 4th d style, more of a stay at home guy. Second of all, as a prospect I would compare him to like Anisimov in terms of quality. There are no guarantees at that level. The kid need to deliver, stay healthy and have a little luck too. With the competition we have on the blueline right now, I think any kid on D that can come in and play will have to perform really well, let's hope that Beargloves can do that.

In the end I can only speak for my self and the above is my opinion. This place was created for discussions like this. Let's all follow the topics we cover and try to learn from them. I could be wrong for sure, then I should learn from it. Maybe BGs lateral movement is way too bad, and I missed it because I underestimated the difference between the NHL and KHL in that sense. But as of today, I definitely still stand by the above.
 
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Revel- On KHL vs AHL, there is massive turnovers of rosters in Europe. Everyone are UFAs when a contract is up. Standard term is 2-3 years. For many years, the KHL got back more good players from the NHL than they lost. Jagr, Radulov, Kovalchuk and so forth. They got the best from the rest of Europe.

The last years, it's the opposite. Mostly SKA has attracted the better players, Voynov, Datayuk and so forth. But a ton of guys have left for the NHL and few have been lured back. They don't quite as fast raid the SHL, Liiga and so forth of the best players.

These things are not static. With that said, I still feel that SKA really have stayed at a high level and that a couple of other teams also are good but still weaker than before. While the general level among the rest have gone down a notch. But it's still only a notch, the KHL definitely got a leg up on SHL/AHL/Liiga.

Lastly, when evaluating leagues by watching a player from one place move to another, always be very vary that there always can be many factors that play in. If Bettman shut down the NHL for 5 years, most great NHLers would be great players in Europe, but a good 25% would really struggle too. My point is just in general -- and not in reply of anything specific posted -- be careful of looking at 1-2 guys going either way and how they do.
 
Huh? Why should I be happy? I don't particularly care, I'm just saying he wasn't given a chance, which I don't think anyone disagrees with.

Preseason matters to break a tie, but I don't know why anyone would think Pionk was more ready for the NHL than Bereglazov, there was no tie to break in the first place. How often are any of these NCAA guys ready right away? Vesey won the Hobey Baker and a lot still thought he could've used some AHL time. Pionk clearly wasn't NHL ready, and then you consider he's a smaller player who might struggle physically. Bereglazov was probably like a top 20-30 defensemen in a better league than the AHL last season, along with not having the size concerns to start that Pionk had. If he was that in the AHL, he would've been given a good chance to make the NHL team, I don't know why anyone wouldn't think he's not ready to play at the NHL level. Maybe he'd struggle with adjustment to different ice and culture, but why would his hockey not be good enough? That makes no sense. I don't know nor care who would be better eventually, but I think its naive to say Pionk was more NHL ready.

Bereglazov didn't look much like a guy who fits the description you often attach to him. Why wouldn't anyone think he's ready to play in the NHL? Probably because he hasn't? Why do you think he is? He was good in the KHL doesn't mean he is NHL ready.
 
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