WJC: 2017 Team USA Roster Talk

[sigx15]

Nobody saw Gibson playing like that before his tournament started either. You never know.

I actually think this is the strongest set of goalies they've had in a while. Oettinger and Woll have come in as freshmen and been studs in the NCAA. Having watched Demko a lot when he was a freshman as well as these two, I think they both look better as freshmen than Demko did at this time. Demko clearly progressed at an incredible rate but it's just perspective at this point in time in their development. People are pretty high on Parsons along with these two so I think the goalie situation will be fine. Will be a matter of who the hot hand ends up being.

 

[93LEAFS]

Cutting Debrincat is anti-politics. Hockey politics would dictate the guy who made the team last year is automatic in his remaining eligible years. Instead, USA actually watched their players play together, decided he wasn't bringing enough to be worth keeping, and cut him.
Brown's cut makes sense with the injury stuff. Guy hasn't played a game in over a month. Even if he's actually 100% healthy, he's probably a bit rusty.

The politics aspect of it is that USA hockey only takes CHL guys when they absolutely need them and passed on Brown and Debrincat because of that. Obviously, they would never cut a Matthews or his linemate Tkachuk because of that, and they seem to have extra loyalty to USNDP guys even if they went the CHL route (Bracco). Similarly, Canada will never take NCAA guys unless they are clearly above everyone else.

 

[YourAverageFan*]

The politics aspect of it is that USA hockey only takes CHL guys when they absolutely need them and passed on Brown and Debrincat because of that. Obviously, they would never cut a Matthews or his linemate Tkachuk because of that, and they seem to have extra loyalty to USNDP guys even if they went the CHL route (Bracco). Similarly, Canada will never take NCAA guys unless they are clearly above everyone else.

While I agree, I was surprised with Canada's decision last year. As a Flames fan, I didn't view Brandon Hickey (a Flames prospect) as a clear lock for the team and didn't think he completely outplayed his competition, yet Canada went with him. Might've just been because of his abilities defensively.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

The politics aspect of it is that USA hockey only takes CHL guys when they absolutely need them and passed on Brown and Debrincat because of that. Obviously, they would never cut a Matthews or his linemate Tkachuk because of that, and they seem to have extra loyalty to USNDP guys even if they went the CHL route (Bracco). Similarly, Canada will never take NCAA guys unless they are clearly above everyone else.

I generally respect your posts, but I think you are dead wrong here. Brown was pursued heavily by USA Hockey and would have been a shoo-in for this team if healthy. He wasn't-and in a short, intense tournament would have been a liability. DeBrincat has been given every opportunity to be part of the program and has been a steady disappointment (internationally).

 

[Statsy]

The politics aspect of it is that USA hockey only takes CHL guys when they absolutely need them and passed on Brown and Debrincat because of that. Obviously, they would never cut a Matthews or his linemate Tkachuk because of that, and they seem to have extra loyalty to USNDP guys even if they went the CHL route (Bracco). Similarly, Canada will never take NCAA guys unless they are clearly above everyone else.

I agree with Rabid Ranger's take on this. In other years you could make that argument of bias against the CHL, but this year I think there is sound reasoning behind those cuts, even if you don't 100% agree with them.

 

[93LEAFS]

I generally respect your posts, but I think you are dead wrong here. Brown was pursued heavily by USA Hockey and would have been a shoo-in for this team if healthy. He wasn't-and in a short, intense tournament would have been a liability. DeBrincat has been given every opportunity to be part of the program and has been a steady disappointment (internationally).

Fair enough, I do think politics are in play with both program that if it's close they will give the NCAA kid the edge. But, I'm willing to agree there is a chance I am dead wrong here. I did hear from someone who knows people with both programs that they think politics were at play on these cuts, but that is their opinion and not fact.

 

[William H Bonney]

The politics aspect of it is that USA hockey only takes CHL guys when they absolutely need them and passed on Brown and Debrincat because of that. Obviously, they would never cut a Matthews or his linemate Tkachuk because of that, and they seem to have extra loyalty to USNDP guys even if they went the CHL route (Bracco). Similarly, Canada will never take NCAA guys unless they are clearly above everyone else.

People often mistake the incompetency of USAH for an anti-CHL or pro-NTDP bias. That's not to say USAH doesn't have its biases (we all do), but their decisions are largely based on a lack of vision and commitment to an entrenched methodology that was once successful, often times even if the success was singular.

This boils down to things like their commitment to force a grind line every year rather than just when they have the right players for it, or their 1990s view that a pure skill player must be in the top 6/9 or else he has no role.

They didn't pass on Brown because he plays in the CHL. They passed because no one believes he's healthy, hasn't played a game in over a month, and by all accounts both those things were obvious at camp. There's probably more to his current injury status than we all realize, but he really wanted to play so he gave it a shot. Now, in hindsight, if Brown heads back to Windsor and doesn't miss a beat, then USAH messed up and his dismissal is indefensible. However, even if it ends up being indefensible in hindsight, it has nothing to do with him playing in the CHL. If that was the issue, they certainly wouldn't have brought him to the WJC U18s last April, especially when they did so at the expense of NTDP players that had been with the program for 2 years.

Your argument also doesn't hold weight when it comes to DeBrincat. It's odd to claim that USAH has "extra loyalty to USNDP guys even if they went the CHL route (Bracco)" and the "politics aspect of it is that USA hockey only takes CHL guys when they absolutely need them and passed on Brown and Debrincat because of that" when USAH took DeBrincat to the last WJC and not Bracco, especially when all reports were that the roster spot given to DeBrincat was a choice between the two players.

 

[William H Bonney]

Had a shoulder injury 1.5 games in that saw him sent back to Erie and have a disappointing 2nd half as a result. The kid was hurt, played trough it, so they used him as a 13th forward. Not only was he hurt, he was an extra forward that could never get in a grove.

None of this is true.

DeBrincat had been playing on the top line with Matthews and Tkachuk in camp leading up to the tournament, and he started the opening game of the tournament against Canada on that line. He couldn't have asked for better linemates, and he rewarded the staff by getting himself kicked out of that game for spearing near the end of the 1st period. Even after that, he was then put back on the top line in the next game against Sweden until his injury near the end of the 1st period. He proceeded to miss the next two games, and returned as the extra forward in the final three games of the tournament.

So, to recap:

• He started the tournament on the top line with two of the tournament's top players.
• He kept his top line spot after his stupidity against Canada, and even after the top line looked so much better without him on it in that game.
• He wasn't sent back to Erie after his injury, but he never regained his top line spot at the WJC after it.

 

[h10*]

None of this is true.

DeBrincat had been playing on the top line with Matthews and Tkachuk in camp leading up to the tournament, and he started the opening game of the tournament against Canada on that line. He couldn't have asked for better linemates, and he rewarded the staff by getting himself kicked out of that game for spearing near the end of the 1st period. Even after that, he was then put back on the top line in the next game against Sweden until his injury near the end of the 1st period. He proceeded to miss the next two games, and returned as the extra forward in the final three games of the tournament.

So, to recap:

• He started the tournament on the top line with two of the tournament's top players.
• He kept his top line spot after his stupidity against Canada, and even after the top line looked so much better without him on it in that game.
• He wasn't sent back to Erie after his injury, but he never regained his top line spot at the WJC after it.

You clearly misinterpreted everything I said.

He got hurt.

Missed 2 games

Returned not because he was fully healthy but because he didn't want to miss any action. He was not playing at full capacity. Was very known by anybody that has/had watched him play previous that he wasn't nearly the same. The injury bugged him

THEN he got sent back to Erie AFTER the tournament like everyone else and continued to be bothered by the injury. It took until the offseason for him to sorta fully get healthy. Never healed properly as he kept playing on it until the summer

Yes he played hurt though

 

[Rabid Ranger]

You clearly misinterpreted everything I said.

He got hurt.

Missed 2 games

Returned not because he was fully healthy but because he didn't want to miss any action. He was not playing at full capacity. Was very known by anybody that has/had watched him play previous that he wasn't nearly the same. The injury bugged him

THEN he got sent back to Erie AFTER the tournament like everyone else and continued to be bothered by the injury. It took until the offseason for him to sorta fully get healthy. Never healed properly as he kept playing on it until the summer

Yes he played hurt though

None of which has anything to do with the fact that he tanked at the Summer camp and did nothing in this most recent camp to earn a spot.

 

[Joe Zanussi]

The Debrincat situation is the classic sports quandry. You have this kid, who you know has a ton of talent but, for whatever reason, it doesnt show up all the time (or at the right time). How much do you put your faith in him and hope the talent will be there on 12/26? Are you sending a bad message by keeping a guy who wasnt performing at tryouts? Will you get burned by a lack of talent cuz ultimately the puck needs to get in the net in order to win?

This situation plays out at every middle school basketball tryout....never mind a tourney as high stakes as this one. I dont envy the guys who have to make the decision.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Gibson was insane in that tournament. I don't see any of the US goalies playing at that level.

I do not have any concerns about either Oettinger or Woll in this tournament.

 

[AmericanDream]

I really don't get the Brown cut at all. This kid has plenty of time to get back into game shape with his skillset. Especially with losing Boeser to injury, we needed Brown to be a top 6 player here. I get that he is rusty and might be a step behind, but this tournament is long enough for him to gain momentum and get back into the speed of things by the end. I don't get why he couldn't be brought along as the 13th forward..just seems insanely silly there imo.

DeBrincat is disappointing as a Hawks fan and a fan of his period. I don't blame USA Hockey for this one at all as the kid simply hasn't played in the camps and WJC like he has at the CHL. He likely will be a solid NHLer with the Hawks but for whatever the reason just never took off for us. Funny how Bracco was the kid we all tossed away with his attitude and size issues of the two the past year, and now he can be the savior of the offense.

Bottom line is the forward group is solid but hurting without Boeser and Tkachuk here for a go to stud. Add no Logan Brown and what was once looking elite is now above average. I like Terry as he will be fine for us but Tanner doesn't belong here as the grinder mentality rarely pays off for us in these things. Hopefully Harper really steps up and earns a top role here.

Lets see how this all plays out, I have faith just don't like the Brown cut.

 

[William H Bonney]

You clearly misinterpreted everything I said.

He got hurt.

Missed 2 games

Returned not because he was fully healthy but because he didn't want to miss any action. He was not playing at full capacity. Was very known by anybody that has/had watched him play previous that he wasn't nearly the same. The injury bugged him

THEN he got sent back to Erie AFTER the tournament like everyone else and continued to be bothered by the injury. It took until the offseason for him to sorta fully get healthy. Never healed properly as he kept playing on it until the summer

Yes he played hurt though

I didn't misinterpret what you said. Had you written the post above instead, I wouldn't have even commented in the first place. But you didn't, and your first post was misleading at best.

 

[The Head Crusher]

How had Harper looked so far?

 

[Mehar]

I just simply do not understand how you can leave DeBrincat off this team. Brown can be possibly rationalized- since he was out with an injury and maybe was not in 100% game shape. However, he had still some time left to get in game shape. I guess USA hockey knows what they are doing. I scratched my head at their World Cup selections, and i am scratching my head now, since i had both of these guys as locks on the team.

 

[h10*]

I just simply do not understand how you can leave DeBrincat off this team. Brown can be possibly rationalized- since he was out with an injury and maybe was not in 100% game shape. However, he had still some time left to get in game shape. I guess USA hockey knows what they are doing. I scratched my head at their World Cup selections, and i am scratching my head now, since i had both of these guys as locks on the team.

I can't believe how you put a sniper, goal scorer, and put him with Brown in the exhibition game then base most of the cut on that. Brown has been underwhelming at best in ohl. Invisible. And is coming off an injury where he hasn't played in weeks, nearly months.
Great chance for Debrincat to succeed there.

 

[h10*]

I didn't misinterpret what you said. Had you written the post above instead, I wouldn't have even commented in the first place. But you didn't, and your first post was misleading at best.

Originally I left out points that were obviously known. You acted as if I didn't know the situation. Sorry, I'll be super detailed next time and take you step by step

 

[22Brad Park]

I have come to the conclusion you never know what the USA is going to do heading into this tourney from picking a roster perspective.Last year Conor Garland never even got invited to tryout and he had 2.06 pts per game.Guess time will tell if they made right moves this year..

 

[Magua]

Tanner doesn't belong here as the grinder mentality rarely pays off for us in these things.

Tanner Laczynski is in no way, shape, or form a "grinder." He's a freshman leading his Ohio State team in scoring with 22 points in 15 games, and he was one of the best in the USHL before that. His production is as good or better than almost everyone on the team in college. He doesn't even play like a grinder stylistically. Won't say he's the most raw skilled player on the roster, but he is absolutely skilled and very smart too. He also brings versatility to play either center or wing and can play up and down the lineup if need be.

 

[Crosbysux]

I like the forwards on this team, for the most part. There is a lot of speed, scoring, grit and hustle in this group, with a lot of them are fairly experienced internationally.

Moreover, in a short tournament, you need guys who aren't just talented on the scoresheet or a draft list, but who can come together mentally and gel quickly as a team, accepting that even though they may be first line scorers on their regular season team, but they may play a very different role on this US team.

DeBrincat is a guy who clearly produces at the OHL level, but he's struggled to translate his talent and compete level to the international game to date, so it's not that surprising to me he was left off the roster this time. Brown is clearly not back to his full capability after his injury, so that's not surprising, either.

Having seen Troy Terry develop here in Denver quite closely, I am not at all surprised he made the roster. This is really a 19-year old's tournament, and Terry made a big leap from last year, when he was a player known for his good hands and not much else to a much more complete, two-way, skating player who can kill penalties and is situationally much more aware to add to his versatility as a 200-foot player. He is still a bit skinny at less than 170 pounds, but he's a guy who plays well above his fifth-round pedigree.

Bellows is the one forward pick that I am unsure about - I've seen him a couple of times live and a few more on TV this year, and he seems to be struggling a bit to produce at the college level. Perhaps Motzko has a special role for him in this tournament...

I think the US team is really going to miss the injured Brock Boeser, who has a special talent level and seems to produce his best in big games.

I am not really sold on the USA d-corps as yet, but the goaltenders are solid, and I hope to be proved wrong.

Yeah, I'm not surprised Terry made the team either. I watched the summer showcase and he looked good whenever he was on the ice. I think his versatility also played into it. He can be a grinder/defensive minded guy, but can also jump up to a scoring line and not be out of place. Really glad he made the squad.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

If Debrincat did not perform well at any of the camps, and had a poor showing last year, maybe USA hockey is justified in not taking him?

 

[Whileee]

I generally respect your posts, but I think you are dead wrong here. Brown was pursued heavily by USA Hockey and would have been a shoo-in for this team if healthy. He wasn't-and in a short, intense tournament would have been a liability. DeBrincat has been given every opportunity to be part of the program and has been a steady disappointment (internationally).

Agree.

DeBrincat was selected over Connor and Roslovic last year, so...

 

[bobber]

Bracco is the greatest player that team USA ever had on the roster. He will getter done

 

[LordNeverLose]

I can't believe how you put a sniper, goal scorer, and put him with Brown in the exhibition game then base most of the cut on that. Brown has been underwhelming at best in ohl. Invisible.

This is very inaccurate, in all respects.