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2017 Offseason Thread: Changes Incoming 2.0

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Cook24 said:
Sorry I didn't read anything in there about his NHL contract being forfeited.
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Voynov, who has 18 goals and 63 assists in 190 carer NHL regular-season games, left the Kings in September, forfeiting his contract with four years left at an average cap hit of $4.16 million per season.
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first link.
 
Not sure about Kane, love his game and what he brings but people who know the players that I talk to says he has issues.

If follow his Instagram, it's like following a movie stars page with a big ego. Lot of shirtless pics of himself traveling and doing fun things. I guess you can say a lot of players have the same pics on their IG but something just seems off about him.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Not sure about Kane, love his game and what he brings but people who know the players that I talk to says he has issues.

If follow his Instagram, it's like following a movie stars page with a big ego. Lot of shirtless pics of himself traveling and doing fun things. I guess you can say a lot of players have the same pics on their IG but something just seems off about him.
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I agree with your apprehension about Kane, but I'm wondering if having a more veteran presence like the Kings have could be a good influence on him.
My bigger concern is trading for a player with one year left on his contract like Lucic did.
 
Butch 19 said:
He's 25 and has more skill (i.e. goal scoring) than Lucic ever had.

I'm not seeing a downside - yet!
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My comment has nothing to do with the play on the ice, and everything to do with the business of hockey. If we trade more assets for a guy who can walk or have to sign to a contract that will severely hinder the team, it will be a massive mistake
 
Sleeping Dog said:
I agree with your apprehension about Kane, but I'm wondering if having a more veteran presence like the Kings have could be a good influence on him.
My bigger concern is trading for a player with one year left on his contract like Lucic did.
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He had a veteran presence in Atlanta /Winnipeg and it did nothing. And the Kings have failed for the last 3 yrs partially because they lost a vet. presence. Kane is never gonna be that guy, he's a very talented selfish player. He will never see there is no I in the word TEAM. And some of the Buffalo media is saying that other players want him out of the room, but there are other reports that he wasn't an issue but his demand for his next contract will be an issue which is why the Sabres want to move him now.
I hope the Kings pass on this.
 
I don't think moving an asset like that just to move Brown's money makes a lot of sense unless their is a subsequent deal in place, be that a free agent signing (Thornton?) or a trade, and they really don't have the assets for a trade outside of Muzzin or Martinez, the whole purpose of trading either one was to clear space for and for an upgrade upfront, which is done by moving Brown.
 
KopitarFAN said:
I don't think moving an asset like that just to move Brown's money makes a lot of sense unless their is a subsequent deal in place, be that a free agent signing (Thornton?) or a trade, and they really don't have the assets for a trade outside of Muzzin or Martinez, the whole purpose of trading either one was to clear space for and for an upgrade upfront, which is done by moving Brown.
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And that might be why the rumors of Kane (or another $$$) winger are abound. Maybe they need 6M for that winger, in addition to what TT will get.
 
KopitarFAN said:
I don't think moving an asset like that just to move Brown's money makes a lot of sense unless their is a subsequent deal in place, be that a free agent signing (Thornton?) or a trade, and they really don't have the assets for a trade outside of Muzzin or Martinez, the whole purpose of trading either one was to clear space for and for an upgrade upfront, which is done by moving Brown.
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It's not just Brown's money. It's his money locked in for the next 5 years. Or, if he were bought out, $3m of dead cap space for a couple years, then more dead cap after that.

Still don't think it could happen for a single 1st round pick though. Vegas would take $6m for the next 5 years, or that dead cap space buyout scenario, for the 11th overall pick? Iginla, Carter, Kopitar, and Filip Forsberg have been drafted 11th overall, but so have Beach, Tukonen, Vorobiev, Hereema, Focht, and Cooper. That could be a franchise guy, or it could be a dud. Too many years on Brown's deal for that risk, even as an expansion team.

Give me two 1st round picks? Maybe this year at #11, and one in 2019 or 2020, when things could be low for the Kings? I'd at least listen.
 
I think if we could get a guy like Drouin, who is only 22, in exchange for Muzzin or Martinez +, it would take the sting off having to trade our 11 overall pick to get rid of Gaborik or Browns contract. One of those guys just needs to go. Those 2 contracts will F us over for the next 5 years otherwise.
 
I think there several teams capable of putting together a better offer for Drouin than what the Kings can muster. Anaheim comes to mind.
 
KINGS17 said:
I think there several teams capable of putting together a better offer for Drouin than what the Kings can muster. Anaheim comes to mind.
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Tbf, fans of other teams said the same thing about the Richards and Carter trades. "We could have put something better together."

GMs talk to whomever they talk to. They don't always scour for the best deal, value for value, in a vacuum.
 
SettlementRichie10 said:
Tbf, fans of other teams said the same thing about the Richards and Carter trades. "We could have put something better together."

GMs talk to whomever they talk to. They don't always scour for the best deal, value for value, in a vacuum.
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Carter trade was a fair one and he was in trade rumors for at least 1 yr prior. Richards wasn't shopped around, Homer only called LA and mentioned it when he was talking to BJ's about Carter. Every other team found out at the draft and Homer nixed at least 2 deals because he wanted Richards in LA, gave his word to DL. They could have gotten a package that would have supported Giroux better, no coincidence w/o replacing what they lost in Richards, 6 years of playing golf in April.

Drouin has been out there for months, every team knows he is available and any w/interest have plenty of time to put a package together. And I don't see AMart or Muzzin enough, from what I've read, they want 'similar' , meaning a top young d. But I do think one of Muzzin or AMart will be traded for a top forward, just not Drouin.
 
A few things:

-Not sure how many people thought they could do better than LA in the Richards trade. Schenn was the highest rated prospect in the world at the time of the trade, Simmonds was cheap with untapped potential plus the 2nd round pick. Richards was already declining and the contract was huge, plus the rumored off-ice issues. Carter was damaged goods by the time LA got him from CBJ and a 1st + a pretty cost-controlled Jack Johnson is nothing to scoff at.

- If Brown were to be traded to Vegas and bought-out, could LA bring him back at a much lower salary? Regardless, I don't think Vegas takes Brown or makes a move for him with the idea of him actually playing for them as I can't see Brown with his family doing the Vegas thing.

- Kane is a moron, albeit a talented moron. You kind of think if he had a chance to play somewhere, LA would be at the top of his list due to the lifestyle he could lead plus anonymity that isn't necessarily offered in Winnipeg or Buffalo. Could that be enough to get his head on straight? Don't know, but I feel like a contract extension with him doesn't necessarily hamper the team moving forward if they are able to orchestrate some magic with Gaborik/Brown and one of the $4MM defensemen goes the other way. If they feel they are still in a "win now" mode, then the idea of moving the #11OA to get out from under a bad contract + adding Kane is not crazy at all since he basically replaces the Lucic production from two seasons ago. Of course, you have to feel that they aren't that far away from being a serious contender to get behind those moves which also requires a ton of faith in Kempe/Brodz/LaDue etc.
 
BigKing said:
A few things:

-Not sure how many people thought they could do better than LA in the Richards trade. Schenn was the highest rated prospect in the world at the time of the trade, Simmonds was cheap with untapped potential plus the 2nd round pick. Richards was already declining and the contract was huge, plus the rumored off-ice issues. Carter was damaged goods by the time LA got him from CBJ and a 1st + a pretty cost-controlled Jack Johnson is nothing to scoff at.

- If Brown were to be traded to Vegas and bought-out, could LA bring him back at a much lower salary? Regardless, I don't think Vegas takes Brown or makes a move for him with the idea of him actually playing for them as I can't see Brown with his family doing the Vegas thing.

- Kane is a moron, albeit a talented moron. You kind of think if he had a chance to play somewhere, LA would be at the top of his list due to the lifestyle he could lead plus anonymity that isn't necessarily offered in Winnipeg or Buffalo. Could that be enough to get his head on straight? Don't know, but I feel like a contract extension with him doesn't necessarily hamper the team moving forward if they are able to orchestrate some magic with Gaborik/Brown and one of the $4MM defensemen goes the other way. If they feel they are still in a "win now" mode, then the idea of moving the #11OA to get out from under a bad contract + adding Kane is not crazy at all since he basically replaces the Lucic production from two seasons ago. Of course, you have to feel that they aren't that far away from being a serious contender to get behind those moves which also requires a ton of faith in Kempe/Brodz/LaDue etc.
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Which is exactly why DL traded him. Kopitar and Giroux are the same age. DL said they at 20, they couldn't afford to wait 3 yrs to see what Schenn developed into. At least he has a plan, Homer had none , he traded away 2 vet. top 6 centers and got nothing back to support Giroux. And Schenn's value wavered depending on who you read, he was is and remains overrated. He had a good WC that year, which he should have given the talent he was playing with but his scouting reports were varied. And as pointed out so often on this board, until you play in the NHL, you are an unproven commodity.
And Mike Richards was not 'declining', in 2011. he played that year with torn cartilege and ligiments in his left wrist and played with Pneumonia in the playoffs. Prior to the 1st of 2 concussions (Nov 2011) was off to a great start. And I did read comments from GM's after that trade that would have traded for him.
 
deeshamrock said:
Which is exactly why DL traded him. Kopitar and Giroux are the same age. DL said they at 20, they couldn't afford to wait 3 yrs to see what Schenn developed into. At least he has a plan, Homer had none , he traded away 2 vet. top 6 centers and got nothing back to support Giroux. And Schenn's value wavered depending on who you read, he was is and remains overrated. He had a good WC that year, which he should have given the talent he was playing with but his scouting reports were varied. And as pointed out so often on this board, until you play in the NHL, you are an unproven commodity.
And Mike Richards was not 'declining', in 2011. he played that year with torn cartilege and ligiments in his left wrist and played with Pneumonia in the playoffs. Prior to the 1st of 2 concussions (Nov 2011) was off to a great start. And I did read comments from GM's after that trade that would have traded for him.
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I agree there were definitely other GMs that would have traded for him. When I say "decline", I don't mean he was well on his way to what eventually happened but rather he was already not producing at his highest level along with him being a small-ish sized player in relation to how he needed to play to be effective.

He still had huge value at the time of the trade as Schenn was being hyped off the charts and Simmonds always had that 20 goal potential if given the right opportunity.
 
If Blake learned anything from his late predecessor he won't make a deal for Kane. One year until UFA, didn't the Kings learn their lesson with Lucic?

Also, Muzzin and Martinez are both signed to longer term. If the Kings deal one of them, they better get back a forward with similar term.

In regarding the MR comments, I would not do that deal over again. The Kings defense and structure won the first cup.

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Carter-Simmonds
King-Stoll-Lewis
Richardson-Fraser-Nolan

Doughty-Scuderi
Mitchell-Voynov
Martinez-Greene
 
Johnny Utah said:
If Blake learned anything from his late predecessor he won't make a deal for Kane. One year until UFA, didn't the Kings learn their lesson with Lucic?

Also, Muzzin and Martinez are both signed to longer term. If the Kings deal one of them, they better get back a forward with similar term.

In regarding the MR comments, I would not do that deal over again. The Kings defense and structure won the first cup.

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Carter-Simmonds
King-Stoll-Lewis
Richardson-Fraser-Nolan

Doughty-Scuderi
Mitchell-Voynov
Martinez-Greene
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If Richards trade doesn't happen, I don't think Carter trade happens either. After Richards was brought in, Kings were supposed to contend, and that's why they were buying at the deadline even though they were on the outside looking in. If they don't have Richards, maybe they stand pat or even sell a guy like Penner and Mitchell who were going to be UFAs.
 
Master Yoda said:
If Richards trade doesn't happen, I don't think Carter trade happens either. After Richards was brought in, Kings were supposed to contend, and that's why they were buying at the deadline even though they were on the outside looking in. If they don't have Richards, maybe they stand pat or even sell a guy like Penner and Mitchell who were going to be UFAs.
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I think it would have, he was on trade talks/rumors for at least a yr if not longer. It was just a matter of time. And Voracek and the BJ's 1st was out there for awhile, we (fans) read about that before it happened. Richards was the shock. Only heard about that a few days before, when a sports talk radio host predicted it ,based on him hearing Snider tell HOmer (Of RIchards ) i want him gone. He even predicted it was to LA. (from another source he knew in the front office). I still didn't believe it, until it happened.
 
Only thing to do differently RE: Richards was to buy him out.

This hypothetical scenario implies Philly takes Johnson and a 1st for Carter with Schenn I guess being on the opening night roster. No way to say the Kings still trade for Carter at the deadline with the same players going the other way. Are you saying the Kings would be dealing Schenn/Johnson for Carter?

Regardless, they don't automatically win the Cup with just Carter and the 2012 Simmonds in place of 2012 Richards. All I know is that they won two Cups with the moves they made back then so I wouldn't change anything until the decision to keep Richards. Butterfly effect and all.
 
I've never found that site to be too reliable. If it is brown and the first pic maybe Blake can also put in the deal that they can protect another couple forwards and defenseman, narrowing down who Vegas can actually select from the Kings.

Or a clause that Vegas must take Clifford with the expansion pic. Basically the first round pick would save the Kings 7 1/2 million dollars.
 
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