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2017 Offseason Thread: Changes Incoming 2.0

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How many 28 goal scorers did the Kings ice last season? Let alone one who can bury the puck from scoring areas? And one who is still in his mid 20s? The Kings, especially Kopitar, could benefit from having a player with Kane's abilities. His off-ice behavior is a different story, but the Kings aren't flourishing with a bunch of 20+ goal scorers. I have no clue what basis you are forming that opinion on.
 
kings11 said:
thats what is being floated around by Edm writers and columnists... I figured you'd use a bit more creativity when realizing what this trade truly means to a team like the Oilers. They are about to enter their window as contenders, McDavid, Draisaitl, Maroon are going to need bridge to big money contracts while Kassian and Nurse are also up for contracts although Amart replaces Nurse and Lewis steps in for Latestu although he likely isn't putting up those numbers...

After a terrible showing in the PO and a very high salary not many teams can afford to acquire Eberle let alone offer what the Kings could in Amart and TL. They would be getting more talent in return with proven cup winning veterans which is kind of similar to how our Kings were built... So yes, the 1st rounder comes into play here although I should have noted it was either a 1st or salary retention although with a pick going the other way it could be both...
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So your thinking was that the Oilers need cap space to sign all their important players, but Martinez/Lewis have the same cap hit as Eberle, and they're both signed longer. I just don't see what Edmonton's reason is to throw in a 1st and/or retain salary. How much would they even retain? 50%? 25%? Then Martinez/Lewis would basically be costing them $7 or $8m instead of $6m for a couple years? That's supposed to help them with their future contract needs?

goosh said:
Last night, Elliotte Friedman noted that the Kings have interest in Evander Kane and that Buffalo is willing to deal. Wonder what it would take. Martinez or Forbort?
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Between the two of them, you would think it would have to be Martinez because of the age and contract. Losing offense from the blueline though.

The Kane situation is tough. He does bring things that the Kings lack, but he does also have baggage, and only 1 year at $5m.

Look back at the Flyer teams Stevens coached, and they had a number of forwards that scored for them. Seems they can't rely on Gaborik, but maybe a different coach(and surgery) makes a difference. Brown is iffy, but maybe a different coach makes a difference. Kopitar has had 2 not great goal seasons in the last 3 years, but maybe a different coach makes a difference. If the Kings still think they can win, and they want to change something, and put a different stamp on the team from Lombardi, then someone has to go. There's no perfect deal out there, and to get you have to give.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
We've got enough guys with good shots--Carter, Toffoli, Gaborik--and enough 'crash the net' types--Brown et. al. Kane is a nice piece but not at any significant price.

I know it sounds a little backwards, but though we need more goals, we don't necessarily need more 'shooters.'
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That highlight reel further proves your point that Kane buries a lot of his goals down around the net, and isn't necessarily a shooter like Carter, Toffoli, etc. This is exactly why he would fit in on the ice (off the ice, whole different kit and caboodle).

And let's quit the wishful thinking that Brown is a 'crash the net' type; we are way past attempting to label him as such.
 
Brown also loses the puck more often than he takes it to the net. He's not that player anymore.

The Kings had one winger net 20+ goals last season. They need help, and no winger other than Toffoli and Pearson is going to magically manufacture 20+ goals next season.

The idea of scoring by committee is nice, but how many are going to consistently put the puck in the net and give Kopitar productive wingers he could lean on for support?

I don't know if Kane is the right fit long term, but if you could add his goals and talents at a reasonable cost, you do it bad worry about the repercussions later.

There aren't many options out there for the Kings, and signing free agents may cost more in terms of cap space.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Brown also loses the puck more often than he takes it to the net. He's not that player anymore.

The Kings had one winger net 20+ goals last season. They need help, and no winger other than Toffoli and Pearson is going to magically manufacture 20+ goals next season.

The idea of scoring by committee is nice, but how many are going to consistently put the puck in the net and give Kopitar productive wingers he could lean on for support?

I don't know if Kane is the right fit long term, but if you could add his goals and talents at a reasonable cost, you do it bad worry about the repercussions later.

There aren't many options out there for the Kings, and signing free agents may cost more in terms of cap space.
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That doesn't mean they're flush of scoring talent, though. You know damn well using last season as the barometer of scoring ability on this roster is just wrong.

Kopitar, Carter, Pearson, Toffoli, are all clearly capable current 20 goal scorers unless they're injured. Gaborik, Brown, debateable. And who knows who they sign or whatever.

I'm not against the idea of adding Kane in general, I'm against the likely cost.

Evander Kane also makes 5.2 so I'm not sure how you're talking about him as some cap bargain. Oshie, Eaves, Marleau, Williams, Vrbata, Hanzal, Fisher, Gagner, Radulov(!), Bonino all scored 18 or more goals and are UFAs. I can imagine a few of those guys getting paid, but I can also imagine a few getting less than 5.2 especially with so many teams cap strapped.
 
Kane has good offense, but I am not a fan of his price tag, both through trade value and his contract. The deal would have to be really good for the Kings. Don't really care about his off-ice escapades as long as he puts the puck in the net.

Though I would also be nervous about his durability. He's never played a full season or has really been that close to it in his entire career.
 
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Gaborik hasn't had a 20+ goal season since 2014-15. Brown hasn't had a 20- goal season since 2011-12. Those days are looooong gone.

Only three forwards scored 20+ goals in 2014-15, only four forwards netted 20+ in 2015-16, and only two forwards did that this past season.

Nobody on this team is going to surprise us and explode offensively in the upcoming season. Expecting four of them to do that is probably the best you could hope for.

I hope the coaching change will improve the overall team scoring, but I'm not expecting John Stevens to perform a miracle.
 
savemefromtears said:
That highlight reel further proves your point that Kane buries a lot of his goals down around the net, and isn't necessarily a shooter like Carter, Toffoli, etc. This is exactly why he would fit in on the ice (off the ice, whole different kit and caboodle).

And let's quit the wishful thinking that Brown is a 'crash the net' type; we are way past attempting to label him as such.
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Just look at his PIM's. You don't want guys taking penalties, but he's in the 20-30 range these days. Forget crash the net, he's not really crash the boards or other players all that much either. The few times he throws one of those Brown hits, we're all saying why can't we have that guy back more often.

A lot has happened because Brown's game fell off after he signed that extension. Part of the reason they got Gaborik was because Brown stopped scoring. Part of the reason there was a need to re-sign Gaborik was because Brown stopped scoring. Part of the reason to trade for Lucic was because he was still more of the kind of player Brown wasn't.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Gaborik hasn't had a 20+ goal season since 2014-15. Brown hasn't had a 20- goal season since 2011-12. Those days are looooong gone.

Only three forwards scored 20+ goals in 2014-15, only four forwards netted 20+ in 2015-16, and only two forwards did that this past season.

Nobody on this team is going to surprise us and explode offensively in the upcoming season. Expecting four of them to do that is probably the best you could hope for.

I hope the coaching change will improve the overall team scoring, but I'm not expecting John Stevens to perform a miracle.
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Only a handful of teams had more than 4 20-goal scorers so yeah if that's your barometer prepare to be disappointed. And most of those teams had generational offensive talent (McDavid, Crosby, Kane).

I'm not at all suggesting Stevens is going to get guys to suddenly start walking on water, but calling Pearson/Toffoli/Carter/Kopitar less than 20-goal scorers is disingenuous.

Adding Kane doesn't necessarily add more goals. We need more creativity more than we need more bangers or raw shooters.
 
ScoreZeGoals said:
Kane is the Lucic scenario 2.0. Trading assets for a guy who either walks as a UFA, or you sign to a contract that will further cripple the team
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100% agree.

The Kings are stuck in the black hole, until the drafting produces results again.
 
damacles1156 said:
100% agree.

The Kings are stuck in the black hole, until the drafting produces results again.
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Maybe so, but then why would you trade one of our best assets (Muzzin at his contract) for a one-year-and-out? Move him for a long-term asset. Edit: nevermind, I see you were agreeing, heh.
 
People asking for either Muzzin or Martinez for Kane are laughable. I'd never make that trade for numerous reasons. He has a higher cap hit, will want a raise, 1 year left, total head case, etc. What I'd give up the Sabres wouldn't take. I'd do a second round pick max and even then I probably wouldn't make that deal. It's never gonna happen.
 
Muzzin for Drouin
1st and Gaborik to Vegas(vegas said they'll take picks for bad contracts. Also cap floor needed.)
Bring Voynov back after expansion draft.
Sign Thornton for 1 year (Blake and Thornton familiar with each other)
Trade Shore and Mcnabb for picks.

Drouin-Kopitar-Brodzinski
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Kempe-Thornton-Brown
Clifford-Dowd-Lewis
Nolan/Mersch

Forbort-Doughty
Martinez-Voynov
Gravel/MacDermid-LaDue

Quick/Campbell

Pretty young team except for Thornton
 
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Cook24 said:
Muzzin for Drouin
1st and Gaborik to Vegas(vegas said they'll take picks for bad contracts. Also cap floor needed.)
Bring Voynov back after expansion draft.
Sign Thornton for 1 year (Blake and Thornton familiar with each other)
Trade Shore and Mcnabb for picks.

Drouin-Kopitar-Brodzinski
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Kempe-Thornton-Brown
Clifford-Dowd-Lewis
Nolan/Mersch

Forbort-Doughty
Martinez-Voynov
Gravel/MacDermid-LaDue

Quick/Campbell

Pretty young team except for Thornton
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I know its a pipe dream, but if Voynov came back. I would not trade Muzzin, but Martinez. I would put Muzzin back with Doughty and pair Voynov with Forbort. Leave LaDue on the 3rd pairing with Gravel/McNabb/MacDermid
 
PHP:
kingsofLA said:
I know its a pipe dream, but if Voynov came back. I would not trade Muzzin, but Martinez. I would put Muzzin back with Doughty and pair Voynov with Forbort. Leave LaDue on the 3rd pairing with Gravel/McNabb/MacDermid
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I'd prefer to keep Muzzin as well, as he's younger than Martinez, I just think it would take Muzzin to land Drouin.
 
Voynov is still under contract in the KHL. There is no poaching of contract players between the KHL and NHL.

He is also most likely under an entry ban. He can apply for a waiver but that takes 6 months. To be ready to sign once the entry draft is done means he would have had to apply back in 2016. Neither the NHL nor the kings indicate he's done that. In fact, they say they have not been contacted by him about it.

He is not coming back. Not in 2017-2018.
 
Stimpythecat said:
Voynov is still under contract in the KHL. There is no poaching of contract players between the KHL and NHL.

He is also most likely under an entry ban. He can apply for a waiver but that takes 6 months. To be ready to sign once the entry draft is done means he would have had to apply back in 2016. Neither the NHL nor the kings indicate he's done that. In fact, they say they have not been contacted by him about it.

He is not coming back. Not in 2017-2018.
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Does this still apply if his NHL contract was signed before he signed with KHL?
 
Cook24 said:
Muzzin for Drouin
1st and Gaborik to Vegas(vegas said they'll take picks for bad contracts. Also cap floor needed.)
Bring Voynov back after expansion draft.
Sign Thornton for 1 year (Blake and Thornton familiar with each other)
Trade Shore and Mcnabb for picks.

Drouin-Kopitar-Brodzinski
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Kempe-Thornton-Brown
Clifford-Dowd-Lewis
Nolan/Mersch

Forbort-Doughty
Martinez-Voynov
Gravel/MacDermid-LaDue

Quick/Campbell

Pretty young team except for Thornton
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Not interested at all in trading a 1st round pick just so Vegas takes our trash. We need to replenish the prospect cupboard.
 
Butch 19 said:
He's 25 and has more skill (i.e. goal scoring) than Lucic ever had.

I'm not seeing a downside - yet!
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The thing that scares me with Kane is that he known to better on the third line since he likes the puck on his stick. Im not sure how that is going to work if paired with Kopitar and i don't want him on the 3rd line
 
Stimpythecat said:
Voynov did not have a NHL contract when he signed with the KHL. He forfeited his NHL deal in September when he left. He signed with the KHL in October. Kings obviously still hold his rights.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/...s-3-year-deal-khl-ska-st-petersburg-jail-term

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-...t-in-khl--but-it-s-complicated-171847729.html
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Someone asked Bettman or Campbell about Voynov returning and they said nothing has even been talked about, and I'd have to believe he'd still face a long suspension should he return [ which I'm against].
 
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