2017 Offseason Thread: Changes Incoming 2.0

[YP44]

There is a chasm between "taking the team apart" and making intelligent, forward thinking decisions. Lombardi's big crime was hubris. He believed in his team so much that not only did he not prepare for the flexibility needed in event of failure, he doubled down on it and made it damn near impossible to avoid.

That possibility that the window would close prematurely was very easy to predict in 2015, not just because of missing the playoffs, but because of the sheer number of longterm contract extensions that guaranteed roster stagnation. I don't care how good the message is, you need fresh blood to come in and liven up not only the room, but different players to add different wrinkles to the same system.

It was very easy to see that the failure of 2015 wasn't just due to physical exhaustion, but also apathy. Continued failure was the most likely outcome. And by failure, I don't mean suddenly becoming a lottery team overnight, but in terms of Cup contention ending. So when the Brown extension was offered, some thought it was too damn long for a player who you would have already traded if Nash decided to waive. Signing Gaborik was a major mistake and argued against by the same folks for the same reasons. Too much time for a player known to lose focus who couldn't remain healthy that took him too late into his career

The Lucic deal was probably the worst trade in the history of the franchise. It was known from day 1 that he could never be re-signed, only Lombardi's hubris lead him to think it was possible. That trade strip-mined an already desolate asset list.

That was why so many argued so strongly against Kopitar's ridiculous extension. It was suicide. He HAD to be traded in order to salvage the next half decade from the black hole. He would never be worth that money in years 5-8, and at least the first two would be worthless during a rebuild/retool, whatever you want to call it, because the team clearly can't challenge now. It was so easy to see, but Dean was sure he knew better. He didn't, he was wrong, it cost the team dearly now and for the next few seasons, and it cost him his job.

It was always the most likely outcome, and some of us explained why we thought so thoroughly in 2015.

The team sure looked exhausted in 2015 to me, but also wasn't that the year the team locked sutter out of the room. I still think that is evidence of a larger issue.

The Lucic trade I was ok with at the time. I thought Jones had just as good of a chance as being the next professor or Bernier so I considered him a toss in. I don't think Collin Miller is the answer to the king's back end, but losing the first hurts. The thing I liked about the Lucic deal at the time was the Salary retention.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

So much revisionist history in this thread.

The 14/15 team was solid. Gaborik had a 30 goal year. Kopitar was playing well. The only consensus cap albatross was Brown at the time.

Like Brad said, no GM with an actual GM job retools that team. Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[Butch 19]

Exactly!

For all the issues we talk about like Voynov, Richards, Brown, Gaborik, Sutter etc. the

The biggest reason the Kings are where they are right now is the lack of success at the draft table, especially in regards to homeruns. *

The change in draft strategy is the thing I am most excited about with the management change.

* drops mic and walks away

The pressure is on Blake and staff to PRODUCE in this year's draft.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Forward thinking moves are good, but I combed through some 2015 offseason threads for gems yesterday and the most drastic changes people asked for were "Buy out Richards" and "trade Brown." So no, I don't think many of the posters here saying "I told you so" get to pretend they had a crystal ball because literally no post I've seen said to do as much.

I felt a need to do the same. Like you said, not a lot of bang on predictions. I don't think anyone had 1 playoff win and 5 playoff games over the next 2 seasons.

2015 looked like a giant fluke, not a flawed roster. We all knew there would be a downturn at some point with the vet status of our team--just like you're saying there's a chasm between RIP IT APART and let's make some smart moves, there's a chasm between believing in what you have and bury-your-head-in-the-sand homerism. Most posters believed 2015 was a blip because of the perfect storm it took to hold us down. But if you're a GM in just about any sport, and your team just went Cup-WCF-Cup-barely miss playoffs due to crazy happenings, you're not even considering dismantling, you're considering stretching success out for another two years. I'll STILL defend Lombardi for the "why" of his moves through at least the beginning of 2016.

Can't agree more with that. Plus in a cap world, how often do you see teams trading their soon to be big money, big name free agents? They all mostly get locked up long term by their current team, and then in a few years, every fan base goes down the same "oh man, should've traded him years ago" road. It's part of the reality of the cap. Most of those fans don't get to see a Cup win either.

What the Kings had between 2012 and 2014 was unlikely to happen to begin with, and unlikely to happen again, no matter how smart a GM is.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The team sure looked exhausted in 2015 to me, but also wasn't that the year the team locked sutter out of the room. I still think that is evidence of a larger issue.

The Lucic trade I was ok with at the time. I thought Jones had just as good of a chance as being the next professor or Bernier so I considered him a toss in. I don't think Collin Miller is the answer to the king's back end, but losing the first hurts. The thing I liked about the Lucic deal at the time was the Salary retention.

How good Jones would be or not wasn't even part of it. The Kings couldn't afford him anymore. The 1st round pick Boston got for him ended up being a late 1st round pick, in part because Jones and the Sharks were a good team, which is why the Sharks felt confident enough to trade that pick. Plus, they traded it to a team in the other conference. Could the Kings have traded him to Buffalo, instead of the Sabres getting Lehner at the same time? Maybe? Lehner was both younger and cheaper though. Maybe adding Jones to the Lucic deal got Boston to retain a little more of the cap hit, but Jones didn't have that much value for the Kings.

Once again, the smart move would've been to trade Jones at the 2014 draft. Instead, Lombardi waited too long because he felt the Kings needed a good cheap backup for Quick during the 14-15 season, and Jones played really well for the team during the 13-14 season. Chalk it up as another missed opportunity for full value of an asset for the former GM.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

* drops mic and walks away

The pressure is on Blake and staff to PRODUCE in this year's draft.

Given this is a crapshooters draft (after the first couple of picks), there will probably be quite a few busts and even a few gems that fall - Blake/team will be hard pressed to hit a home run this year.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I'd consider Pearson a homerun in 2012. Win the Cup, get a top-6 LW as a bonus.

 

[KINGS17]

So much revisionist history in this thread.

The 14/15 team was solid. Gaborik had a 30 goal year. Kopitar was playing well. The only consensus cap albatross was Brown at the time.

Like Brad said, no GM with an actual GM job retools that team. Hindsight is always 20/20.

There sure is, you should go back and look at the stats for Kopitar, Brown, Stoll, and Richards and revise your post. It was not a solid team capable of contending, and Kopitar did not play well.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

There sure is, you should go back and look at the stats for Kopitar, Brown, Stoll, and Richards and revise your post. It was not a solid team capable of contending, and Kopitar did not play well.

Quite a few of your posts from that offseason suggest otherwise, and actually point out tweaks the team should make for your ticket money since the window is now. As SettlementRichie points out, revisionist history.

 

[KINGS17]

Quite a few of your posts from that offseason suggest otherwise, and actually point out tweaks the team should make for your ticket money since the window is now. As SettlementRichie points out, revisionist history.

Yes, tweaks to see if it would work during the 2014-15 season after they had already screwed up and not bought out Richards, already re-signed Gaborik, etc. I didn't mind the Sekera trade, but once he didn't re-sign with the Kings there was a gaping hole.

After the 2015 season I said don't give Kopitar 8 years and to start thinking about a different approach. I'm sure you can't remember since many of those posts were censored or deleted because they became heated topics.

So, you can call it whatever you want. I know what myself and several others said. No one claimed to have a crystal ball, but it is BS to try and claim many people did not like the following:

No Richards buy out
Re-signing Gaborik
Re-signing Greene
The Lucic trade
The Kopitar contract

Saying people didn't agree with these moves IS revisionist history, and pure fabrication.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Say what you want about 2015, but the final week of the season was a downright embarrassment. They played their way out of a playoff spot.

 

[KINGS17]

Say what you want about 2015, but the final week of the season was a downright embarrassment. They played their way out of a playoff spot.

Yes, and as I have been saying the summer of 2015 is when Dean should have recognized the run was over.

- Sub par season from Kopitar, only 16 goals on 134 shots, seemingly refusing to take the puck to the net

- Brown signed to a terrible contract and no hopes of getting rid of it

- Voynov gone, Sekera doesn't re-sign, and no replacement in sight

- Richards and Stoll just a shell of their former selves, and no replacements in sight

- Defense of Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, Regehr (who would retire), McNabb, and Greene (not anywhere near what they had in 2013-14)

 

[Herby]

So much revisionist history in this thread.

The 14/15 team was solid. Gaborik had a 30 goal year. Kopitar was playing well. The only consensus cap albatross was Brown at the time.

An almost $6m a year player (with 5 more to go) who was demoted to the AHL is not an albatross contract?

 

[Ollie Weeks]

An almost $6m a year player (with 5 more to go) who was demoted to the AHL is not an albatross contract?

Kind of making his point there, no?

Is an albatross. Not Was an albatross.

 

[Herby]

Kind of making his point there, no?

Is an albatross. Not Was an albatross.

He was talking about 2014/2015, he said Brown was the only albatross at the time.

It isn't true because the Kings had the worst contract in the NHL still on the books in 2014/2015.

 

[yankeeking]

Yes, tweaks to see if it would work during the 2014-15 season after they had already screwed up and not bought out Richards, already re-signed Gaborik, etc. I didn't mind the Sekera trade, but once he didn't re-sign with the Kings there was a gaping hole.

After the 2015 season I said don't give Kopitar 8 years and to start thinking about a different approach. I'm sure you can't remember since many of those posts were censored or deleted because they became heated topics.

So, you can call it whatever you want. I know what myself and several others said. No one claimed to have a crystal ball, but it is BS to try and claim many people did not like the following:

No Richards buy out
Re-signing Gaborik
Re-signing Greene
The Lucic trade
The Kopitar contract

Saying people didn't agree with these moves IS revisionist history, and pure fabrication.

You need to educate yourself on Gaborik's deal which is pretty damn good considering it's an under-35 contract.

Dean didn't negotiate Richards' deal, he just blew it when he didn't buy him out last summer. That's gonna hurt.

I already explained why Brown got his deal. He was a loyal soldier from Day 1 in the Kings organization and was underpaid until his last contract kicked in.Gaborik is on a sweat deal. He doesn't have an NTC. His contract is clearly designed for him to retire before it ends. If he doesn't he can be traded to a bottom feeder. Hell by that time the Kings might be bottom feeding for a year or two.
these are your quotes from apr 2015


so RJ gave me an idea and how most every thread here is about how smart you guys are and its not revisionist history i went back and read some myself and you were right on about your dislike for kopi's possible contract coming up and about your dislike of richies not being bought out but you were way off about gabby and even indicate some understanding about brown, none of us are perfect even you guys way smarter than the rest of us

 

[damacles1156]

I've hated the Gabo/Kopitar contracts since day one they were signed.

Especially Gaborik's, Dean only did a good job in getting Gabo lower on that cap hit, but he paid for it in years.

Gabo was a player Lombardi could have walked away from.

Put a 4 year deal on the table, stick to it, Gabo says (No) walk away.

Obvious, Dean Lombardi couldn't with Kopitar (Different)

But Gabo, He had so many red flags, you would have been justified being cautious, or simply walking away.

Seven year deal to a 30+ year old, injury riddled player.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Except the GM making millions is paid to be smart, and to think with his head, not his heart.

 

[KINGS17]

You need to educate yourself on Gaborik's deal which is pretty damn good considering it's an under-35 contract.

Dean didn't negotiate Richards' deal, he just blew it when he didn't buy him out last summer. That's gonna hurt.

I already explained why Brown got his deal. He was a loyal soldier from Day 1 in the Kings organization and was underpaid until his last contract kicked in.Gaborik is on a sweat deal. He doesn't have an NTC. His contract is clearly designed for him to retire before it ends. If he doesn't he can be traded to a bottom feeder. Hell by that time the Kings might be bottom feeding for a year or two.
these are your quotes from apr 2015


so RJ gave me an idea and how most every thread here is about how smart you guys are and its not revisionist history i went back and read some myself and you were right on about your dislike for kopi's possible contract coming up and about your dislike of richies not being bought out but you were way off about gabby and even indicate some understanding about brown, none of us are perfect even you guys way smarter than the rest of us

People weren't wrong about Gaborik. He should have been offered a two or three year deal at a reasonable cap hit. If he didn't take it, bye.

How are the people who don't like Gaborik's deal wrong, when so many discuss the possibility of buying him out?

I was willing to give Dean a mulligan on Brown, but I would have thought he would learn from that mistake, and he didn't.

We don't have to discuss the past. We can discuss what the Kings should do with Carter. Oh wait, I forgot, this team is still a contender.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Yes, and as I have been saying the summer of 2015 is when Dean should have recognized the run was over.

You're saying that now, but not back then.

 

[Johnny Utah]

If everyone recalls quite a few Kings bloggers (including Mayor) and sources were saying a 3 year deal with more money was the table the night before free agency of summer 2014 but then something happened and the term became longer and salary less. Lombardi should have given him 3 years at 7 million then we would be done with him. Instead, we are stuck for 4 more seasons. Though, if you look at his deal, after this year the buyout is much less - Kings will owe him just 3 more years at 4.8. What's the buyout on just over 14 million??? Didn't I just read something in the CBA about buying out players over 35? If was Blake, I would wait until next summer and then buy him out for those low cap and low salary remaining 3 years.

I agree with other posters here too, the Kopitar deal is bad too. He is not a top 5 player in the NHL. And even if he was no one is worth 10 million, that's ridiculous. Still can't believe Toews and Kane get paid that much and Crosby makes quite a bit less.

FYI I just googled a couple lists of top 10 players in the NHL. Kopitar didn't make the top 10 in either list.

 

[KingsFan7824]

If everyone recalls quite a few Kings bloggers (including Mayor) and sources were saying a 3 year deal with more money was the table the night before free agency of summer 2014 but then something happened and the term became longer and salary less. Lombardi should have given him 3 years at 7 million then we would be done with him. Instead, we are stuck for 4 more seasons. Though, if you look at his deal, after this year the buyout is much less - Kings will owe him just 3 more years at 4.8. What's the buyout on just over 14 million??? Didn't I just read something in the CBA about buying out players over 35? If was Blake, I would wait until next summer and then buy him out for those low cap and low salary remaining 3 years.

The 19-20 and 20-21 cap hits are still decently high if you buy him out. The best option is that he can score. The 2nd best option isn't a buyout, it's being able to put him on LTIR for a whole year. They really don't save that much money with a buyout. If they're able to do it next year, it's an extra $3m of cap space for the following season. What are you really getting for an extra $3m? What 30 year old free agent do people want to sign for the next 6 years with some added cap space?

I agree with other posters here too, the Kopitar deal is bad too. He is not a top 5 player in the NHL. And even if he was no one is worth 10 million, that's ridiculous. Still can't believe Toews and Kane get paid that much and Crosby makes quite a bit less.

FYI I just googled a couple lists of top 10 players in the NHL. Kopitar didn't make the top 10 in either list.

Of course it's a bad contract. That's not the point. And how can you not believe that Toews and Kane have the same cap hit? That they do, tells you what you need to know about the Kings situation. Pittsburgh lucked out that Crosby is so cool with the numbers 8 and 7. He has had the same cap hit since 2008, but he's pulling in about $20m more than either Kane or Toews from their current deals. Crosby just got to sign his contract before the last CBA.

 

[kings11]

If everyone recalls quite a few Kings bloggers (including Mayor) and sources were saying a 3 year deal with more money was the table the night before free agency of summer 2014 but then something happened and the term became longer and salary less. Lombardi should have given him 3 years at 7 million then we would be done with him. Instead, we are stuck for 4 more seasons. Though, if you look at his deal, after this year the buyout is much less - Kings will owe him just 3 more years at 4.8. What's the buyout on just over 14 million??? Didn't I just read something in the CBA about buying out players over 35? If was Blake, I would wait until next summer and then buy him out for those low cap and low salary remaining 3 years.

I agree with other posters here too, the Kopitar deal is bad too. He is not a top 5 player in the NHL. And even if he was no one is worth 10 million, that's ridiculous. Still can't believe Toews and Kane get paid that much and Crosby makes quite a bit less.

FYI I just googled a couple lists of top 10 players in the NHL. Kopitar didn't make the top 10 in either list.

Well lets clarify your last comments.... Kopitar slumped pretty bad this year and likely fell out of the top 10 but its also pretty interesting that he went into the season ranked #2 at the position only behind Crosby..... Lets not pretend he just fell off the face of the Earth and declined into a midtier Center.... Kopitar is still a valuable player to either build around or trade ...

 

[KINGS17]

You're saying that now, but not back then.

No, I essentially said get Kopitar to sign a reasonable deal or trade him.

I will leave you to interpret what it means. It's just as bland said in one of his posts.,

It's a process, and there is a chasm between making smart moves and tearing the whole thing down.

Whenever someone says, "The Kings should see what this guy would return in a trade.", the usual suspects come in and respond with "Might as well trade these 3 or 4 players too then."

So, the question this summer should be, if the Kings aren't contenders (they aren't) should they let a valuable asset like Jeff Carter decline further in value while Luc screws around trying to convince us this roster can contend.

 

[YP44]

I'd consider Pearson a homerun in 2012. Win the Cup, get a top-6 LW as a bonus.

agreed. I would also like what Claque is brining to the table.