2017 Offseason Thread 5.0 Summer Doldrums

[AlphaBravo]

From last week:

http://lakingsinsider.com/2017/08/02/player-evaluation-gaborik-3/

described as a 'chronic issue associated with his knee'

But I looked on Instagram and he seemed happy. Its impossible for him to have chronic issues and pain. Instagram doesn't show that. Clearly Rosen is wrong here.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

But I looked on Instagram and he seemed happy. Its impossible for him to have chronic issues and pain. Instagram doesn't show that. Clearly Rosen is wrong here.

Hey man you have to formulate a new opinion based on new information! (except information that doesn't fit my false narrative of course)

There has been nothing from the Kings or Gaborik that indicates he will be ready to go on opening night, a workout video doesn't mean **** to me.

 

[King'sPawn]

But I looked on Instagram and he seemed happy. Its impossible for him to have chronic issues and pain. Instagram doesn't show that. Clearly Rosen is wrong here.

AlphaMouthpiece should be your username lawlz. You clearly are not refined in the art of Instagram opinion formulating

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/...ngs-legend-rob-blake-ready-right-team-ship-gm

In some respects, Blake inherited one of hockey's tougher jobs. The Kings have won just one playoff game since they hoisted the Stanley Cup in 2014. Though L.A. still has many of the core players from that team -- and its 2012 Cup-winning squad -- the organization painted itself into a salary-cap corner as it tried to keep the group together even as it aged.

Last season, forwards Dustin Brown and Marian Gaborik scored a combined total of 24 goals total despite combining for a $10.75 million cap hit. Brown will be 33 this season and has five years left on his deal. Gaborik will turn 36 and has four years left.

Captain Anze Kopitar struggled during the first season of a 10-year, $80 million contract, when he had full-season, career-lows of 12 goals and 52 points. Goaltender Jonathan Quick missed all but 17 games because of a groin injury suffered in the season opener. Center Tyler Toffoli dropped from 31 goals in 82 games 2015-16 to just 16 in 63 games last season.

When Blake assumed the job, he saw these shortcomings and believed a wholesale change didn't make sense. Not only was he hamstrung to a degree by Gaborik's and Brown's deals, he believed that Kopitar, Quick and Toffoli were still in their primes and should bounce back. Plus, forwards Jeff Carter and Tanner Pearson -- along with defenseman Drew Doughty -- had strong seasons in 2016-17, providing more reason for hope.

Blake decided, instead, that the team's system needed to be altered in order to push its offensive pace. Darryl Sutter, who coached the Kings from 2011 through last season, was also fired when Blake was elevated to GM. It seemed like Sutter's defense-first system had become stale.

Blake met with John Stevens, who had been one of Sutter's assistant coaches, and chatted about changing the team's approach. Stevens and Blake agreed that while the Kings had a strong puck-possession game in the offensive zone, too many of their chances were coming from near the boards and not from high-danger areas in the middle of the ice.

This was a major reason why Los Angeles was tied for 24th in offense last season, with 2.43 goals per game, and tied for 27th in shooting percentage, at 7.8 -- despite being one of the top teams in 5-on-5 shot attempts.

Stevens explained how he could institute some systemic tweaks to change these numbers. Blake was sold, and offered Stevens the head coach job.

"I think it all started with trying to figure out how goals are being scored. Is it holding the puck in the corner and creating a 30-second possession time? I'm not sure it is," Blake said. "At the end of the day you have to find a way to get the puck to the slot, and there are different ways [to do that]."

The team hired Pierre Turgeon -- who had 1,327 points in 1,294 career games -- for a position it called "offensive coordinator." Turgeon is charged with trying to get players in the right spots to score. It's tough to know if Turgeon, who has no NHL coaching experience, can mold the personnel into a more offensive group, but it's a move that certainly piqued the interest of people around the league.

"You can free up guys with system, with structure, with confidence with style of play to drastically change the way they play," NHL Network analyst Johnson said. "I don't know if all their players can do that. I don't know if their personnel will allow them to make that kind of jump, but I do think with a different philosophy guys can become significantly more offensive."

The Kings could well encounter the same problems in 2017-18 as recent squads have. The only major on-ice moves Blake made were adding 35-year-old Mike Cammalleri, who is two years removed from a 27-goal season, at forward and Christian Folin, who has just 118 games of NHL experience, on defense. That being said, while Blake is confident that he will see gains and believes he has prepared for all options, he knows it's important he's prepared to pivot if this plan doesn't pan out.

"We tried to address different things," Blake said. "The game is played a little differently than it had been the last 10 years. Those are some of the things we keyed in on over the summer. We've yet to play a game, but we think we've taken strides in that direction."

 

[damacles1156]

Players have to be willing to take the puck into dangerous scoring areas.

Remember how many times Brown ended up on the ice in front of goalies in 2012, same for Gaborik in 2014 playoffs ?

Nothing to do with the system, everything to do with a willingness to take punishment to score goals. Or a willingness to ATTACK scoring areas on the ice.

Maybe Stevens can bring that fire back, I highly doubt it. Roster needs major turn over in my opinion to get players with a hunger to win Cups again.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Players have to be willing to take the puck into dangerous scoring areas.

Remember how many times Brown ended up on the ice in front of goalies in 2012, same for Gaborik in 2014 playoffs ?

Nothing to do with the system, everything to do with a willingness to take punishment to score goals. Or a willingness to ATTACK scoring areas on the ice.

Maybe Stevens can bring that fire back, I highly doubt it. Roster needs major turn over in my opinion to get players with a hunger to win Cups again.

You are essentially saying the Kings are a soft team. I dont think thats accurate at all.

 

[johnjm22]

A coaching change can definitely boost a team. I've seen it happen many times.

I don't know if Steven's will be able to have that kind of impact, but the Kings were exhibiting all the signs of a team needing a coaching change.

I'm not a fan of the Stevens hiring. Nothing against him, but if you really want to shake things up, you probably shouldn't just promote a bunch of guys internally.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

A coaching change can definitely boost a team. I've seen it happen many times.

I don't know if Steven's will be able to have that kind of impact, but the Kings were exhibiting all the signs of a team needing a coaching change.

I'm not a fan of the Stevens hiring. Nothing against him, but if you really want to shake things up, you probably shouldn't just promote a bunch of guys internally.

Promoting from within worked for Pittsburgh, granted they promoted their AHL coach, but Tocchet and Martin were holdovers.

https://www.nhl.com/news/penguins-fire-johnston-name-sullivan-coach/c-792341

"I believe he's the guy who can come in and really take control and really make some guys more accountable when we're not performing," Rutherford said. "He really is a demanding and take-control guy. And in some ways â€Â¦ he reminds me of a coach that I had a lot of success with, Peter Laviolette."

Rick Tocchet will remain an assistant coach, and Jacques Martin, who served as a special assistant, will be on the bench as an assistant coach.

"I wanted to keep those guys because they know what's gone on here," Rutherford said. "In Mike Sullivan's case, I wanted somebody new that the players won't totally know. That he can come in and mold what we're doing going forward and really take control of the situation of what needs to be dealt with."

The process of considering a coaching change began after the Penguins lost to the Columbus Blue Jackets at home on Nov. 13 and to the New Jersey Devils on the road the following night, Rutherford said. After the 4-0 loss to New Jersey, Pittsburgh held a closed-door meeting which led to forward Evgeni Malkin criticizing its performance and motivation, saying "We're mad at each other."

"I think, for the most part, a lot of our players respected Mike," Rutherford said. "For the most part, the majority of players have done pretty good. â€Â¦ I certainly don't think we've got a huge issue to fix here."

Rutherford said he didn't sense Johnston's altered his coaching style.

"I don't think he changed," he said. "I think if anything, maybe the players changed and maybe understood how to deal with him, or if they did things a certain way or did things their way, that was going to be OK."

Rutherford was critical of Pittsburgh's power play, which ranks 26th with a 15.6 percent success rate. The power play was dormant throughout Johnston's tenure, with the exception of the first two months of the 2014-15 season when it converted at almost 40 percent.

The Penguins have failed to capitalize with the talent on their top power-play unit, which includes forwards Sidney Crosby, Phil Kessel and Malkin, and defenseman Kris Letang, when healthy, Rutherford said. He expressed concern over Pittsburgh's tendency to cycle the puck without getting many shots on net with the man-advantage.

"It actually worked better than anybody would've expected [at the start of last season], not at a pace you could keep up with. It was all new and everybody bought in and everything went to the net, and a lot of times it went in the net," Rutherford said. "As time went on, we got away from that. We have a lot of highly skilled players on the power play who can move the puck around.

"It looks nice, but moving the puck around doesn't help us score goals. â€Â¦ I can't remember the last time I saw a goal scored without a shot on net."

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

 

[johnjm22]

Promoting from within worked for Pittsburgh, granted they promoted their AHL coach, but Tocchet and Martin were holdovers.

https://www.nhl.com/news/penguins-fire-johnston-name-sullivan-coach/c-792341


Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Yeah but Sullivan was pretty much brand new to the organization. Only coached 24 games in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton before getting the head coaching job.

As the saying goes sometimes "players need to hear a new voice". They've been hearing Steven's voice for 8 years.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah but Sullivan was pretty much brand new to the organization. Only coached 24 games in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton before getting the head coaching job.

As the saying goes sometimes "players need to hear a new voice". They've been hearing Steven's voice for 8 years.

That's true, but is it the voice or what's being said/instructed that's the problem? Sutter never lasted this long as a head coach in any previous stint. Coaching the Kings was his longest stint.

There are plenty of coaches out there who have a very short shelf life. Look at the guys who like to yell and get animated behind the bench like a Crawford or a dictator like Keenan. They didn't last very long wherever they coached, even when they did find some success.

I bet the clock is also ticking for Quenneville in Chicago if they go out on another whimper.

 

[damacles1156]

Pitt has also had some significant roster turn over since 2008-2009, people seem to gloss over that.

Crosby/Malkin/Letang remain but a good portion of the roster is pretty young and hungry.

Matt Murray is an absolute BEAST, making 550k and 23 years of age.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Pitt has also had some significant roster turn over since 2009, people seem to gloss over that.

Crosby/Malkin/Letang remain but a good portion of the roster is pretty young and hungry.

Not to mention Matt Murray is an absolute BEAST, making 550k and 23 years of age.

I would tend to think that a roster would change a wee bit in seven years time.

 

[Fishhead]

You are essentially saying the Kings are a soft team. I dont think thats accurate at all.

I don't think he's saying they are soft, more like the willingness to do whatever it takes to win is fading. Players say they want to win every year, but if you win a couple times and are getting older, it's human nature to pull back a little. It takes a lot of motivation to go to spots on the ice where you are probably going to get nailed with a puck or take a solid shot from someone. Very few players in any sport keep that willingness and fire throughout an extended career.

 

[damacles1156]

I don't think he's saying they are soft, more like the willingness to do whatever it takes to win is fading. Players say they want to win every year, but if you win a couple times and are getting older, it's human nature to pull back a little. It takes a lot of motivation to go to spots on the ice where you are probably going to get nailed with a puck or take a solid shot from someone. Very few players in any sport keep that willingness and fire throughout an extended career.

I agree with what you're saying. Seeing what you're describing in the current core of the Kings.

 

[damacles1156]

I would tend to think that a roster would change a wee bit in seven years time.

That would be a good bet.

 

[Bandit]

Pitt has also had some significant roster turn over since 2008-2009, people seem to gloss over that.

Crosby/Malkin/Letang remain but a good portion of the roster is pretty young and hungry.

Matt Murray is an absolute BEAST, making 550k and 23 years of age.

Pittsburgh and Chicago are in very similar situations. Both with 3 cups with their current "core", both won their first cup when their cornerstones were very young becasue they came together at the right time. The Kings didn't quite have that luxury. It could very well end up:

Toews/Kane: 3 Cups
Crosby/Malkin: 3 Cups
Kopitar/Brown: 2 Cups

Not bad, IMO.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Pitt has also had some significant roster turn over since 2008-2009, people seem to gloss over that.

Crosby/Malkin/Letang remain but a good portion of the roster is pretty young and hungry.

Matt Murray is an absolute BEAST, making 550k and 23 years of age.

Yes, but even with the current roster, they were treading water until the coaching change.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yes, but even with the current roster, they were treading water until the coaching change.

And the new coach also brought in a bunch of young players up from within their system in Murray, Sheary, Rust, Kuhnackl, and that was also Dumoulin's first opportunity to shine with a full-time role. A lot of other older players also came in with very little playoff experience, so they kind of disproved the theory that you need a lineup full of battle tested warriors in order to win a Cup, much less two in a row.

 

[johnjm22]

There are plenty of coaches out there who have a very short shelf life. Look at the guys who like to yell and get animated behind the bench like a Crawford or a dictator like Keenan. They didn't last very long wherever they coached, even when they did find some success.

DeBoer is another example. Every team he goes to overachieves in their first season then gets progressively worse in the following seasons. (Won't be surprised at all if SJ misses the playoffs).

 

[Brodeur]

DeBoer is another example. Every team he goes to overachieves in their first season then gets progressively worse in the following seasons. (Won't be surprised at all if SJ misses the playoffs).

In his defense, the Devils did lose Parise and Kovalchuk in consecutive offseasons after his first season. But he did do a questionable job juggling Schneider and Brodeur during his last year, and did Adam Larsson no favors in his development.

And those Florida rosters were pretty lackluster during DeBoer's tenure. Didn't have much in terms of offense and new management traded Nathan Horton before his DeBoer's final season and then dealt Michal Frolik in the middle of the season. Horton/Frolik were 2 of the 3 guys who had cracked 20 goals for Florida the previous year.

Those results were more on management. San Jose's in a better spot than those Devils/Panthers teams were.

 

[deeshamrock]

Promoting from within worked for Pittsburgh, granted they promoted their AHL coach, but Tocchet and Martin were holdovers.

https://www.nhl.com/news/penguins-fire-johnston-name-sullivan-coach/c-792341


Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

That a coaching change can cause a positive reaction on the team? That happens with a large degree of coaching changes. And I don't see the Pens and Kings in the same light in that regard. Sullivan's system was effective but he had skilled players to work it and brought in a lot of new young faces. I don't see Stevens going to a high octane offense run and gun like the Pens use.

And it still comes down to centers and goal tending. Murray has been outstanding for them, for the last 2 years. And Crosby and Malkin were the best center tandem in the NHL during those runs. Le Tang and Maata both good. They had Bonino, Haglin and Kessell on that 3rd line in the first Cup run and nobody could match them. JR and MS identified the 2 fastest players at the trade deadline and got them.

I like Stevens, still my favorite Flyers Coach who was fired too soon and a bit green , which cost him his job. And I think he will make a difference and those key players that the fans here (and media) have cited (Kopi, TT, etc.) will score more. I think they will be better but the competition around them will be too. THis roster, as it stands, IMO, won't be in the top 3 in the division. And I think in the WC, that means no playoff spot.

And Blake and Luc know that too. Trades aren't easy and the Kings don't exactly have a plethora of blue chippers to offer. Free Agents don't elect to sign in LA. We know from what we read over the last year or so, DL tried to trade for a top 6 forward and most GM's listen to the call, you never know what another GM is willing to pay or take. So they started this year by doing it the right way, rebuilding thru the draft.
TT and TP , Gravel, LaDue, Vilardi etc, they are the core of where this team is trending. I'm not sure about their goalie prospects but you'd have to think they are eyeing that.

 

[deeshamrock]

In his defense, the Devils did lose Parise and Kovalchuk in consecutive offseasons after his first season. But he did do a questionable job juggling Schneider and Brodeur during his last year, and did Adam Larsson no favors in his development.

And those Florida rosters were pretty lackluster during DeBoer's tenure. Didn't have much in terms of offense and new management traded Nathan Horton before his DeBoer's final season and then dealt Michal Frolik in the middle of the season. Horton/Frolik were 2 of the 3 guys who had cracked 20 goals for Florida the previous year.

Those results were more on management. San Jose's in a better spot than those Devils/Panthers teams were.

Well said. I always liked him and he was , I think, the only reason the devils got to the 2012 finals. He didn't have much to work with in NJ. Under him, I think SJ is still a very good team but I don't think they have enough to finish 3rd. Time will tell.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I just listened to Prust on satellite radio NHL network hockey today, he said Doughty told him the Kings needed some leadership and grit...ouch.

Seems like when the Kings had Lucic and Iginla there was an attitude that they don't have even with Clifford, Andreoff and Nolan. Not sure what those three aren't doing but it's not what Lucic or Iggy can do. With Nolan being a upcoming ufa, Clifford being around for awhile and Andreoff on a two year makes me wonder that one or two of those guys are on the move. I'm thinking Clifford gets dealt and the Kings go with Prust and Nolan and Andreoff might end up in the AHL.

 

[damacles1156]

I doubt anyone is willing to take Clifford. A lot of teams this off-season and next, have to start paying their younger players.

Everyone's cap space is filling up fast.

 

[damacles1156]

I just listened to Prust on satellite radio NHL network hockey today, he said Doughty told him the Kings needed some leadership and grit...ouch.

Seems like when the Kings had Lucic and Iginla there was an attitude that they don't have even with Clifford, Andreoff and Nolan. Not sure what those three aren't doing but it's not what Lucic or Iggy can do. With Nolan being a upcoming ufa, Clifford being around for awhile and Andreoff on a two year makes me wonder that one or two of those guys are on the move. I'm thinking Clifford gets dealt and the Kings go with Prust and Nolan and Andreoff might end up in the AHL.

A troubling trend I keep seeing quoted from supposed Kings leaders (IE) Doughty/Kopitar, is that the Kings need some leadership.

Uhhh what ?