Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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And when he is 27, everyone wants him off the team because he can't reach 70 points
Prospect Info: 2017 NHL Draft / Pick #7 - Lias Andersson (C)
- Thread starter Pavel Buchnevich
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And when he is 27, everyone wants him off the team because he can't reach 70 points
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
You mean there's actually a common ground between a 70 point top shelf offensive center, and 40 point defensive-leaning center?
- Aug 5, 2010
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Good points, Edge.
I also hate comparisons to Chytil. Totally irrelevant (especially considering that Chytil's progression since the draft is totally unexpected) to comparing prospects this early as each of them have their own development curve.
And also a lot of unrealistic expectations will be motivated by him being 7OA. Anything short of 70+ points first line center will be considered a failure by many around here.
How many 70 point centers are drafted every year in the whole draft? Less than 1 I would suspect... Expecting a 70 point all situations center at # 7 overall is just setting your self up for disappointment.
8 Centers scored over 70 points last season...8
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I think it's a shifting mindset.
People remember the era when having a 100 point first line center was a good sign.
Then it became 90, then 80, etc.
For a while, 70 points was a good indicator, then it dropped down closer to 60.
But I think there are still certain "benchmark" numbers that each of us have in our head. When people dream about having a star center, they now dream about finding that 70 point guy.
Matt Rentfree
Registered User
McDavid, Crosby, Backstrom, Scheifele, Draisaitl, Getzlaf, Malkin, Seguin. Only way you're getting one of those guys 7 OA is if they're all in the same draft class (yes, I know Scheifele was drafted 7 OA)
Edge I agree for sure.
And the difference between 60 and 80 points can definitely be invironment. The difference between being on one of those teams with a top line and PP and more of an even team is easy 15-20 pts. I think the top guys in Philly is a good example. No way that Simmonds is a 60-70 pts player on most teams. They all boosted each other. Giroux might score 90 pts in that environment, but could definitely have been a 70 pts player for many other teams. And there are many other examples of course.
Further to this — this league has undoubtedly become more of a 4 line game. And that should only continue as long as the current trend develops, at least. Marginals to score goals and pts in the NHL are small, whenever the percentages are as low as they are — you will get cold and hot streaks. Confidence is effected right. And the big impact comes in relation to this with the 4 line game because in the 90s if you had a star that was cold you just played him to death, sooner rather than later a puck him him and went in if nothing else. Today you not only cannot do that, you often do the opposite and use that other depth more. You don’t shake up lines just to get a scorer going.
There are 31 teams in the league, there will always be a few extremely hot units. But on avg I think scoring will even out more.
I see third line center that can break into the league as a wing if needed. 40 pt upside ridiculous pick at 7th overall.
Doesn’t have any elite skills whatsoever. Doesn’t skate well either which worries me the most.
He’ll be a solid player but 7th?? Crazy should have been in the 20s.
Thank God for Chytil.
Doesn’t have any elite skills whatsoever. Doesn’t skate well either which worries me the most.
He’ll be a solid player but 7th?? Crazy should have been in the 20s.
Thank God for Chytil.
Lion Hound
Pornhub Enthusiast
I like the player, but still question the pick. Nick Suzuki. Time will tell.
Vinny DeAngelo
Jimmy Easy to defend
I see Patrick Hornqvist that plays center.. We've seen with his Pre-season and summer WJC(or whatever that tourny was lol) Hes going to drive the net and get those dirty goals. He has a great sense of it. And probably most importantly he will probably be a great leader in the room.
Once a pick is made, I dont like thinking of where someone went or any of that. We can't re-do the draft. Just look at who we got. Does it matter if Andersson went 7 and Chytil went 21? or does it matter that we got them both?
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
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Given that Petersson went at 6OA, the only other guy I would have taken over Andersson would be maybe Yamamoto or Middlestadt (don't know much about him). Outside of that, it takes a year or so for these guys to be read
I would have taken Mittlestadt, think he is unique offensively. Not at sold on Glass, Villardi and the likes.
Elias Peterson can become great, or more of a Teevu Teravainen type.
Its easy to troll and request a franchise player with a top 10 pick, not sure what good it does since it’s not in touch with reality.
Elias Peterson can become great, or more of a Teevu Teravainen type.
Its easy to troll and request a franchise player with a top 10 pick, not sure what good it does since it’s not in touch with reality.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
This is close to my opinion. I still think there's 2nd line upside, maybe 5-10 more points than you think, but I also recognize what you are stating may very well be the case with Andersson. Agree about no elite skills, he's a good player, but he doesn't stand out with Frolunda, and his skating is average. Agree about his draft range, also. A case can even be made that he's the type of player who goes 30's-40's in a re-draft after players who are less known with better skill-sets develop into better players.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Me too, but NYR were obviously targetting a C and they value skating (Lias isn't a speed demon but compared to Vilardi he is) which takes Vilardi off the list. With that in mind the Lias pick is fine at worst. Draft models loved Lias pre draft, look at CanucksArmys model for example.
Woah! It took AV 11 minutes TOI to send Chytil down to AHL @Kovalev27 - then you can blame the coach all u want. But you have no idea how Lias will develop until next training camp - no one can see the future that clearly so u can base a honest opinion if Lias will be successful or not in NHL.
Lias don`t deserve this critic this early, because your girl friend or wife bought the wrong type of steak scenario, and you had to blow it out on someone like, Lias.
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Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Well of course it's going to seem like a ridiculous pick if you think his UPSIDE is only 40 points. If you think that's the upside, then the middle ground would be somewhere in the 30s?
If that's your assessment, than yeah, it's insane for a 7th overall pick.
However, if you see his upside as being more in the 50s, and as a play in all situations kind of pick, than it makes sense to take him in that slot.
While talent plays a part in where a player is picked, it's not the only factor. One of the biggest considerations for a team is trying to determine WHEN the player will be picked and what their probability of success is.
For example, the Rangers could've had Andersson and Chytil ranked very closely. They could've viewed Andersson as safer, but Chytil has having more offensive upside. However, they could've felt strongly that despite their own internal rankings, Andersson was going to go early and Chytil was going to be around when they picked later in the round. So you move forward and grab the player you don't think will be there later, even if feel Chytil might be pretty darn close in terms of attributes you like. If you think the guy you like will still be on the board, then you try to trade down.
Once teams get past the draft, where they picked a player rarely comes up in conversation. It's kind of the sports equivalent of where someone went to college - once hired, and beyond your first or second job, no one really gives a crap. They want to do see what you can do or can't do. As such, they're not going to care where they got Andersson and whether they selected him before Chytil, they're going to be focused on whether both guys are becoming the players the team hoped they could be. Because once the last pick is made at the draft, the only thing that matters is results. There are no more honors or distinctions for where a player was picked. You either progress, or you don't.
So in a nutshell, you view Chytil as being limited. That's going to influence your view.
A lot of other people have a more favorable opinion of Andersson, so that's going to influence there view.
Personally, I think Andersson has a chance to be a core player for this team, though no one should expect him to be its offensive leader.
Rangers in 7
Registered User
K27 ripping on a swede who hes seen play all of like 3 times.
Why am I not surprised>
Why am I not surprised>
- Aug 5, 2010
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Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Lindberg is still what most people projected for him, a guy whose upside is a third line center.
Andersson's draft year and post-draft seasons are also significantly more advanced that Lindberg's were.
Andersson's draft year and post-draft seasons are also significantly more advanced that Lindberg's were.
- Aug 5, 2010
- 13,891
- 9,518
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Personally, I'd say he hasn't quite hit the level I thought he would. We'll see how this season progresses. Obviously, I don't expect him to keep up his current 37 goal pace.
Over the course of his career, which roughly equates to two full seasons, he works out to about 15 goals, 15 assists and 30 points over an 82 game season. But I'd like to actually see him hit that over the course of a full season and not cobbled together over several - maybe even a little closer to 35 or 40 points.
Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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What held me back about Mittlestadt (and Makar) is the QoO when looking at their numbers. People seem to forget that the SHL is a professional hockey league and probably 3rd or 4th best in the world. It's hockey against adults, not 16-year olds like the AJHL, WHL, USHL etc.
Yeah, which is relevant for sure.
So much comes down to projecting a kids game at the NHL level. Someone like Pavel Zacha can be complete and dominant at juniors — but will have a much harder time to translate that to the NHL level. Needs a lot of ice and puck. Easily a churn of like 50%. A player like Buch will translate a lot better to the NHL, people trashed Buch completely after Traverse, Zacha would have owned at that level. But Buch is so smart with the puck, process the game fast, has skills to buy himself time.
Besides that it’s also very important to look at growth potential. All kids develop at different pace, and the early bloomers are of course not more likely to become better when fully developed compared to a little later bloomers. Day has very little growth potential, someone like Skjei has developed so much since his draft.
Mittlestad is a player in the the Market/Gaudreau/Keller mold. Amazing ability to handle the puck and top speed and so hard to get a hold of. And he seems to have a ton of growth potential. I think the Glass/Villardi types are the hardest to evaluate right now, because I think many just like a Ryan Strome will struggle a lot to stand out in the pro game that is so fast right now. But then all of a sudden someone comes a long like them and manage to get involved, like a Scheleife or Tkachuk and then you have it jackpot. Nolan Patrick?
Lias Andersson is a very capable hockey player. Vision, shot, superb attitude, grit, agility — he got it all. But he definitely doesn’t have the intensity in his skating to be a good offensive player in the NHL right now. And having played at a little higher level lately — he also can expand his register there. From my POV it comes down to the same thing I’ve said since the summer — can he add another gear in his skating? If he can do that he can definitely become a god top 6 center. If not, you are probably looking at more of a solid top 6-9 forward.
That is a evaluation you must make. Because it’s ridiculous to look at him as a finished product at 18-19. Fast and Lindberg are solid bottom 6 players. They weren’t even remotely as good as Lias is now at the same age. There is no way Stepan could have played in the SHL at 17. And so forth.
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