Prospect Info: 2017 NHL Draft / Pick #7 - Lias Andersson (C) - Part II

[Algernop Kreider]

We can argue until we're blue in the face about whether Stepan is a "true 1C", whatever that means, but the fact remains that at one point in time he was the best center on the best team in the NHL. I'd be pretty happy if Andersson came anywhere near that level.

 

[haohmaru]

We had a first line center, but our genius coach decided to play him on 3rd line wing instead (Staal).

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

We can argue until we're blue in the face about whether Stepan is a "true 1C", whatever that means, but the fact remains that at one point in time he was the best center on the best team in the NHL. I'd be pretty happy if Andersson came anywhere near that level.

The whole "true 1c" argument is ridiculous anyway.

Since 2012, Stepan is 20th in the league in points among centers. That's a 1c. And I don't like using just points to compare players but that's what others do to prove Stepan isn't a 1c.

Lias at age 19 is already a better player than Stepan was at the same age.

 

[haohmaru]

The whole "true 1c" argument is ridiculous anyway.

Since 2012, Stepan is 20th in the league in points among centers. That's a 1c. And I don't like using just points to compare players but that's what others do to prove Stepan isn't a 1c.

Lias at age 19 is already a better player than Stepan was at the same age.

Agree - and it's not like he's putting up top 20 numbers like that and playing crap defensively. He's a good two way center. He's not Crosby and he's definitely 20-30, but he's a 1C.

 

[East Coast Bias]

If Lias becomes Stepan i would be delighted.

Just bc we didn’t win a cup doesn’t mean we did everything wrong for years. Teams don’t have 23 ELITE PLAYERS. You don’t have to throw everyone who isn’t Matthews or McDavid to the trash.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Agree - and it's not like he's putting up top 20 numbers like that and playing crap defensively. He's a good two way center. He's not Crosby and he's definitely 20-30, but he's a 1C.

People expect an elite center. There are only 5 elite centers in the league and 2 of them play together. Oh and most elite players are drafted in the top 3. We haven't had a pick high enough to get a sure fire elite player since Nixon was in office.

 

[haohmaru]

People expect an elite center. There are only 5 elite centers in the league and 2 of them play together. Oh and most elite players are drafted in the top 3. We haven't had a pick high enough to get a sure fire elite player since Nixon was in office.

Johnson, actually.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

People expect an elite center. There are only 5 elite centers in the league and 2 of them play together. Oh and most elite players are drafted in the top 3. We haven't had a pick high enough to get a sure fire elite player since Nixon was in office.

I was curious to see how big the disparity was between us and everyone else in the league in terms of having top 3 picks and it's comically large. Nashville and Minnesota are the only 2 teams in the league who also have had only one top 3 pick and they came into the league in '98 and '00 respectively. Since 1966 (last time the Rangers had a top 3 pick), here are the numbers:

10 Top 3 picks - New Jersey (Kansas City/Colorado)

9 Top 3 picks - Dallas (California/Oakland, Minnesota), Montreal

8 Top 3 picks - Islanders, Pittsburgh, Vancouver

7 Top 3 picks - Boston, Colorado, Tampa Bay, Florida

6 Top 3 picks - Ottawa, Winnipeg, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington

5 Top 3 picks - Buffalo, Detroit, Carolina, San Jose, Edmonton

4 Top 3 picks - Arizona, Toronto

3 Top 3 picks - Philadelphia, St. Louis, Columbus

2 Top 3 picks - Calgary (Atlanta), Anaheim

1 Top 3 pick - Rangers, Nashville, Minnesota

0 Top 3 picks - Vegas

 

[doomscroll]

I was curious to see how big the disparity was between us and everyone else in the league in terms of having top 3 picks and it's comically large. Nashville and Minnesota are the only 2 teams in the league who also have had only one top 3 pick and they came into the league in '98 and '00 respectively. Since 1966 (last time the Rangers had a top 3 pick), here are the numbers:

10 Top 3 picks - New Jersey (Kansas City/Colorado)

9 Top 3 picks - Dallas (California/Oakland, Minnesota), Montreal

8 Top 3 picks - Islanders, Pittsburgh, Vancouver

7 Top 3 picks - Boston, Colorado, Tampa Bay, Florida

6 Top 3 picks - Ottawa, Winnipeg, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington

5 Top 3 picks - Buffalo, Detroit, Carolina, San Jose, Edmonton

4 Top 3 picks - Arizona, Toronto

3 Top 3 picks - Philadelphia, St. Louis, Columbus

2 Top 3 picks - Calgary (Atlanta), Anaheim

1 Top 3 pick - Rangers, Nashville, Minnesota

0 Top 3 picks - Vegas

So the Rangers essentially haven’t had a top-three pick since the period where half of the league picked in the top-three...

 

[Matt Rentfree]

So the Rangers essentially haven’t had a top-three pick since the period where half of the league picked in the top-three...

That assessment would be correct.

 

[ElLeetch]

10 Top 3 picks - New Jersey (Kansas City/Colorado)

9 Top 3 picks - Dallas (California/Oakland, Minnesota), Montreal

8 Top 3 picks - Islanders, Pittsburgh, Vancouver

7 Top 3 picks - Boston, Colorado, Tampa Bay, Florida

6 Top 3 picks - Ottawa, Winnipeg, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington

5 Top 3 picks - Buffalo, Detroit, Carolina, San Jose, Edmonton

4 Top 3 picks - Arizona, Toronto

3 Top 3 picks - Philadelphia, St. Louis, Columbus

2 Top 3 picks - Calgary (Atlanta), Anaheim

1 Top 3 pick - Rangers, Nashville, Minnesota

0 Top 3 picks - Vegas

And to really drive home the point, i bolded the cup winners since 1990 (excluding us , our miracle). Thats essentially the last 30 years of hockey.

Teams really don't win cups without bottoming out (and i mean, the real bottom, not just "out of the playoffs")

 

[TGWL]

We had a first line center, but our genius coach decided to play him on 3rd line wing instead (Staal).

Staal was having bad year and it had nothing to do with where we played him. He wasn't going to be a #1C with us that year.

 

[haohmaru]

Staal was having bad year and it had nothing to do with where we played him. He wasn't going to be a #1C with us that year.

Disagree. AV had no idea what to do with him. Minnesota sure did.

 

[Edge]

In fairness, I do feel like Staal is one of those uncommon instances where a player finds himself in the right situation, with the right fit, in his 30s, and turns back the clock a half decade. Because his slide was noticeable long before AV got a hold of him.

Those instances, while neat to see, are also a little concerning for me because I feel like it rekindles optimism for fans of every aging star and makes it harder for them to move on.

Sometimes we see Eric Staal in Minnesota, or to a lesser extent Jarmoir Jagr with the Rangers. But the odds are usually pretty long, with or without AV to compound the problem.

 

[TGWL]

Disagree. AV had no idea what to do with him. Minnesota sure did.

And Carolina didn't, either? Staal needed that off season and took full advantage to come back a better player. We can blame AV for a lot of things, but missing out on Staal being our #1C was not one of them.

 

[haohmaru]

And Carolina didn't, either? Staal needed that off season and took full advantage to come back a better player. We can blame AV for a lot of things, but missing out on Staal being our #1C was not one of them.

Uh, 7 straight years of missing the playoffs playing for a shit organization can wear a guy out.

We'll never know. I don't think you can effectively argue that he was given an opportunity here as a 1C at all and I'd venture if you went back to his acquisition thread there'd be a whole slew of people wondering WTF AV was doing with him specifically. He certainly thrived elsewhere and I don't think it was because he changed his summer workout program.

Conjecture and speculation. We'll never know.

 

[Tawnos]

Uh, 7 straight years of missing the playoffs playing for a **** organization can wear a guy out.

We'll never know. I don't think you can effectively argue that he was given an opportunity here as a 1C at all and I'd venture if you went back to his acquisition thread there'd be a whole slew of people wondering WTF AV was doing with him specifically. He certainly thrived elsewhere and I don't think it was because he changed his summer workout program.

Conjecture and speculation. We'll never know.

And the simple fact of getting traded might not snap him out of it. A full off-season mentally adjusting to the change, on the other hand, would be more likely to.

Eric Staal sucked here. Had nothing to do with where AV played him in the lineup.

 

[Fitzy]

We had a first line center, but our genius coach decided to play him on 3rd line wing instead (Staal).

AV had flaws but this is a tired narrative. Staal was hot garbage that whole season, at all positions. The wing thing just exacerbated it, and since he wasn't playing any better than Stepan Brassard or Hayes, he didn't exactly earn a spot.

 

[Edge]

The consensus is based on public rankings. Those public rankings had Michael Dal Colle top 5. Those public rankings aren't flawless

I can’t help but feel this is something we often overlook.

We’ve talked a lot about going off the board and the idea floated by some that the Rangers think they’re the smartest team in the room. But we don’t really talk about the times the consensus was wrong. We also haven’t talked about the times the Rangers plucked players that weren’t necessarily beloved by the consensus.

We’ve harped on every single alternative scenario that could’ve gone better for the Rangers while strategically avoiding serious discussions about the alternative scenarios that could’ve gone worse.

Whereas we criticize the team for thinking they’re the smartest guys in the room, we often try to alternatively paint them as the dumbest.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I can’t help but feel this is something we often overlook.

We’ve talked a lot about going off the board and the idea floated by some that the Rangers think they’re the smartest team in the room. But we don’t really talk about the times the consensus was wrong. We also haven’t talked about the times the Rangers plucked players that weren’t necessarily beloved by the consensus.

We’ve harped on every single alternative scenario that could’ve gone better for the Rangers while strategically avoiding serious discussions about the alternative scenarios that could’ve gone worse.

Whereas we criticize the team for thinking they’re the smartest guys in the room, we often try to alternatively paint them as the dumbest.

Sure, but that's human nature. We tend to focus on the bad things and ignore the good, in my opinion because people expect positives to happen regardless of what else is going on. This goes for anything in life.

 

[haohmaru]

And the simple fact of getting traded might not snap him out of it. A full off-season mentally adjusting to the change, on the other hand, would be more likely to.

Eric Staal sucked here. Had nothing to do with where AV played him in the lineup.

“It was definitely quick,” Staal said of his Rangers’ rental tenure after 11-plus seasons with the Hurricanes. “Deep down, I genuinely enjoyed it. I wasn’t going to go in there and play first-line center and knock Brass [Derick Brassard] or Step [Derek Stepan] out of their positions. It was for me to try and fit and contribute in other ways.

“Obviously, it wasn’t enough and I didn’t feel like I did enough to help us succeed [and go] further,” Staal added.

Never had a shot at it. Had everything to do with AV and the role the Rangers and he, himself, thought he'd have here. Yeah, he was terrible in Carolina that year for another team destined to do nothing but if you think he got an opportunity here, he really didn't.

 

[Tawnos]

“It was definitely quick,” Staal said of his Rangers’ rental tenure after 11-plus seasons with the Hurricanes. “Deep down, I genuinely enjoyed it. I wasn’t going to go in there and play first-line center and knock Brass [Derick Brassard] or Step [Derek Stepan] out of their positions. It was for me to try and fit and contribute in other ways.

“Obviously, it wasn’t enough and I didn’t feel like I did enough to help us succeed [and go] further,” Staal added.

Never had a shot at it. Had everything to do with AV and the role the Rangers and he, himself, thought he'd have here. Yeah, he was terrible in Carolina that year for another team destined to do nothing but if you think he got an opportunity here, he really didn't.

The statement from Staal you quoted directly contradicts you.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

“It was definitely quick,” Staal said of his Rangers’ rental tenure after 11-plus seasons with the Hurricanes. “Deep down, I genuinely enjoyed it. I wasn’t going to go in there and play first-line center and knock Brass [Derick Brassard] or Step [Derek Stepan] out of their positions. It was for me to try and fit and contribute in other ways.

“Obviously, it wasn’t enough and I didn’t feel like I did enough to help us succeed [and go] further,” Staal added.

Never had a shot at it. Had everything to do with AV and the role the Rangers and he, himself, thought he'd have here. Yeah, he was terrible in Carolina that year for another team destined to do nothing but if you think he got an opportunity here, he really didn't.

Staal, at that moment, was not better than Stepan or Brassard. Should AV have played an inferior player over those two?

 

[Fvital92]

Virgin doing virgin things

 

[silverfish]

Virgin doing virgin things

WELL THAT'S IT BOYS CLOSE UP SHOP THE DEBATE IS OVER ANDERSSON IS BETTER