2017 NHL Draft: Grant McCagg's Top 10 (Updated on-the-fly, not intermittently)

[TMLife*]

^Okay, all that said, who would you pick #1 then?

 

[TMLife*]

Injuries are a concern for everyone, patrick has been unlucky indeed.

quote from your article:

Patrick had surgery and sat out the first three months of that season. When he returned to the lineup in early December, the Hawks won 11-2 and Patrick had eight points. Then Hawks coach Neil Chow remembers people coming up to him after the game and saying things like, “Geez, he’s okay, but we expected Nolan to be better than that.” Chow pointed out Patrick’s eight points, and that it was a blowout, so he’d spent the game setting up teammates. “That’s the thing about Nolan,” Chow says, “he has an eight-point night and people don’t notice him.” Patrick will be the first to tell you his game isn’t flashy, a thought echoed by many who’ve seen him play. Says Chow: “You have to look closely. Then you’d see he could do anything he wanted.”

 

[Legion34]

...And still finished behind Laine in goals/game and points/game.

I think Matthews was the correct pick at 1st overall, but Laine had an outstanding rookie season and it's not ludicrous to view him at the same level as Matthews going forward. As he gets stronger and more attuned to the NHL game he projects as a dominating star. Tagging him as #1 going into the draft doesn't look as controversial now as it might have at the time of the draft.

Again it's not a laine thread. The point is that the author goes out of his way to prove
That his "wacky and vilified" predictions are right. Then points out times
When he wasn't right. With all the draft busts and overlooked stars if you want to make the point that your rankings have validity I hope there would be better examples.

Ie picking Pasternak in top 10, o reilly over MSP etc. I'm not pretending I know a ton but I watch OHL and I liked Gally over Yakupov too. I can come up with a list of better calls I made than that. I'm not disagreeing with his rankings but that was the most
Uninspiring list of "calls" I have seen. I am assuming he has a better list than that. I mean I'm sure a lot of people
Here do. Just odd that these would be the examples


And to either not know or ignore Matthews all time us record in the NHL? That makes him look worse

 

[rt]

^Okay, all that said, who would you pick #1 then?

Hischier. I have Patrick 2nd based only on trust of the scouting community at large. Eyeball test puts him way down the list though.

 

[Jarey Curry]

Does this guy have some sort of reason to have Vesalainen there 20s and now suddenly he's #3? Because of lights out tournament his earlier "flaws" which kept him from being inside top 20 has now dissappeared compared to top 5 talents this year and he goes 3rd overall in this guys mind. Oh...kay..

 

[kelsier]

Care to tell me the league records Matthews broke? Laine finished fifth overall in goals per game before the age of 19...no 18-year-old in the HISTORY of the game had finished top 15 in that category. Again...I'm not saying Laine will be better..but it's not wacky to suggest that he might be ...and lots of folks informed me last year that the idea would be preposterous. No....it is not. Matthews is no lock for the Calder..he will likely win..but a lock? Right up until the last two weeks of the season when the Jets were out of the playoff race and Laine slowed down..it was a virtual tie. But all that matters to you is who wins a trophy voted on by writers from all over the league..yes...that proves one way or another who will have the better NHL career.

Last February I ranked Laine ahead of Matthews and was vilified....well..between then and the draft Laine won the MVP of the Finnish playoff at 17, won the MVP of the World Championship weeks after turning 18. In his first season he scored at a pace no one at his age has ever done. Was it wacky to suggest that he may end up being a better player than Matthews? Well...apparently a year later you already have the answer..and that is no..because Matthews broke underwhelming Leaf rookie records that Laine also surpassed...Clark scored 34 goals in his rookie season...Laine scored more.

So your argument is that folks should indeed proclaim that rankings are wacky and vilify folks like me when they disagree with them before players are ever drafted? Predominantly because Matthews may win the Calder?

Nothing wacky about your predictions whatsoever. I entirely agree with your assessments about Laine. People willingly choose to ignore that he had 18 year old season rather than 19 (as long as it serves their agenda), and therefore should be somehow in the same stage of development as his Calder race rivals which of course isn't true at all. He was able to keep up with the scoring pace no matter age cap and wrap up one of the best 18 year old seasons ever. The kid hasn't had a full healthy summer for such a long time and to add that into context it was sort of extra ordinary to see him fair that well. Rookie season is a rookie season and having older competition running with the trophy doesn't really mean a thing in grand scale of things. The jury is still out there and this will certainly be entertaining topic in the next five or so years from now.

There's absolutely nothing wrong about controversial rankings nor going against the "consensus". I've tons of appreciation and respect with what you've done and what your doing. Of course you can't always please everyone but that comes with the business I guess. At least I've enjoyed reading your analysis and respect that you stand behind those statements. Great to actually have a real professional here who bothers sharing his thoughts with 'casual' fans like us.

 

[Fogelhund]

Hello Grant, thanks for sharing the good work.

As a Leafs fan, a team with glaring need with potentially high end D, who should we fans be looking at, as a possible option for the Leafs to draft..

You have Hague and Foote lower than most as well. Can you tell us the rational?

Should the Leafs take a chance on Liljegren, could they realistically trade up for Heiskanen?

 

[IComeInPeace]

Does this guy have some sort of reason to have Vesalainen there 20s and now suddenly he's #3? Because of lights out tournament his earlier "flaws" which kept him from being inside top 20 has now dissappeared compared to top 5 talents this year and he goes 3rd overall in this guys mind. Oh...kay..

Yes.
I think he's covered it quite well.
You may not agree, but he explains his position if you read through the thread.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Yes.
I think he's covered it quite well.
You may not agree, but he explains his position if you read through the thread.

One of the main thing was looking superior against Glass when Finland played against Canada. I do not agree him being a top 5 talent (nevermind a top 3), but he should be in the top 15 rather than +20.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

...And still finished behind Laine in goals/game and points/game.

I think Matthews was the correct pick at 1st overall, but Laine had an outstanding rookie season and it's not ludicrous to view him at the same level as Matthews going forward. As he gets stronger and more attuned to the NHL game he projects as a dominating star. Tagging him as #1 going into the draft doesn't look as controversial now as it might have at the time of the draft.

... Because Laine played fewer games.

Not Matthews' fault Laine couldn't keep his head up.

Would like to see how Laine would've done offensively playing with two rookies all the time instead of Mark Scheifle. We all saw what happened when he was stapled to Little as his centre instead.

 

[Legion34]

I find it extremely odd that he just stopped replying in this thread. No better prediction examples?

I wonder if he actually didn't know Matthews set multiple records this year. What an odd time to cite the laine ranking and his 18 year old WCH scoring record (very few NA stars play in the tourney) in the shadow of Us all time goal records? Never had an issue with the list but this was really odd "proof"

 

[Daximus]

I find it extremely odd that he just stopped replying in this thread. No better prediction examples?

I wonder if he actually didn't know Matthews set multiple records this year. What an odd time to cite the laine ranking and his 18 year old WCH scoring record (very few NA stars play in the tourney) in the shadow of Us all time goal records? Never had an issue with the list but this was really odd "proof"

Well to be fair it's virtually impossible for any Finnish prospect to beat the Finnish rookie scoring record at this point....

 

[Legion34]

Well to be fair it's virtually impossible for any Finnish prospect to beat the Finnish rookie scoring record at this point....

Ya that will be a tough one. But he called me out asking what records Matthews broke...
Being the all time rookie Us goal scorer is a pretty good record.... and it was well known too. Either he didn't know or didn't care, but to cite an age related joke of a tournament record as impressive is just bizarre

 

[huntison]

1) Hischier
2) Patrick
3) Mittlestadt
4) Vilardi
5) Glass

Nhl comparables for these guys! Go!

 

[ginner classic]

1) Hischier
2) Patrick
3) Mittlestadt
4) Vilardi
5) Glass

Nhl comparables for these guys! Go!

1.) Could
2.) You
3.) Be
4.) More
5.) Rude?

 

[huntison]

1.) Could
2.) You
3.) Be
4.) More
5.) Rude?

I think I hurt your feelings.

Let me rephrase. Nhl comparables for these guys, please!

 

[Whileee]

Ya that will be a tough one. But he called me out asking what records Matthews broke...
Being the all time rookie Us goal scorer is a pretty good record.... and it was well known too. Either he didn't know or didn't care, but to cite an age related joke of a tournament record as impressive is just bizarre

I think he's now realized that any reference to Matthews or Laine is a sure-fire way to wreck a thread. Best to lay low for a bit and let things cool down.

 

[kelsier]

Ya that will be a tough one. But he called me out asking what records Matthews broke...
Being the all time rookie Us goal scorer is a pretty good record.... and it was well known too. Either he didn't know or didn't care, but to cite an age related joke of a tournament record as impressive is just bizarre

Being the best US rookie scorer of times is great, but I don't think NHL records go by the country. At least I've never seen such list where records are categorized by country. Would be kind of hilarious if NHL records were sorted by "The most assists all time - Swedish", "the greatest save % of Norwegian keepers" or "Most PIM by any Icelandic player". So perhaps he was talking about NHL records without country filter. Even I don't know what exactly what records Matthews broke other than most goals by rookie in first game. So maybe he was referring to Laine breaking more records than Matthews looking throughout their careers, thus advocating his own views and draft rankings for 2016.

This isn't a bar full of drunken people arguing over pints, so I think it's a bit immature to be saying someone calling you out especially since it wasn't him that quoted you in the first place, but vice versa. Also I'm sure that Grant has more meaningful things at hands than to be arguing with a random hockey viewer over the internet.

 

[EnglishDevil]

1) Hischier
2) Patrick
3) Mittlestadt
4) Vilardi
5) Glass

Nhl comparables for these guys! Go!

1) Zetterberg
2) E. Staal
3) Skinner
4) Spezza
5) Johansen

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

1) Hischier
2) Patrick
3) Mittlestadt
4) Vilardi
5) Glass

Nhl comparables for these guys! Go!

1) Zettrrberg
2) Getzlaf
3) patrick Kane
4) Daniel Sedin
5) ryan Johansen

 

[huntison]

1) Zettrrberg
2) Getzlaf
3) patrick Kane
4) Daniel Sedin
5) ryan Johansen

Thanks

 

[Legion34]

Being the best US rookie scorer of times is great, but I don't think NHL records go by the country. At least I've never seen such list where records are categorized by country. Would be kind of hilarious if NHL records were sorted by "The most assists all time - Swedish", "the greatest save % of Norwegian keepers" or "Most PIM by any Icelandic player". So perhaps he was talking about NHL records without country filter. Even I don't know what exactly what records Matthews broke other than most goals by rookie in first game. So maybe he was referring to Laine breaking more records than Matthews looking throughout their careers, thus advocating his own views and draft rankings for 2016.

This isn't a bar full of drunken people arguing over pints, so I think it's a bit immature to be saying someone calling you out especially since it wasn't him that quoted you in the first place, but vice versa. Also I'm sure that Grant has more meaningful things at hands than to be arguing with a random hockey viewer over the internet.

I get the sentiment but I think you should read his post directly to me. Yes he did specifically ask me what records were broken. Then cited team records for the leafs and how laine beat one leaf record too (teams count, countries don't?) and proceeded to claim importance in the record of 18 year old scoring in a tournament virtually no good 18 year olds play in. There was lots of coverage about him beating the all time Us record in media.

Honestly I never had an issue with his rankings. Totally forgot that he picked laine (ok that's fine). His justifications make him look really bad imo. Surprising........

 

[Luddowich]

Why is everyone laughing at his McLeod ranking from last year? The guy has 21p in 12 playoff games... haven't seen him playing, but seems like a fine prospect to me.

Because a lot of prospects have outperformed that, lol.

Liljegren is barely first round material.

And a lot people even in here have told this. Just because he had 2 superb 10 sec twitter videos last year, does not mean that he is a good player.

Excluding the WJC-18, he had 11 pts in 14 games in international competition. Had 1 less point than top 3 pick Vesalainen in 7 less games as a defenseman in the same league. All while having mono to begin the season. 7 pts in 12 games at Superelit level and played as a top pairing defenseman in Allsvenskan. But nope, not even a first round pick

Maybe you should form your own opinion on him?

In most lists where? I don't know of a single NHL scout that EVER dropped him out of their first round. Even when he was struggling vs. men he was still considerd 15-25 for most.

You had to really consider the entire situation. a 17-year old Finn playing in the SHL..where the preference is to play vets. Didn't get an offensive role, never found his confidence..playing aginst men.

Then he goes to the u-20 where the entire team is a gong show with a coach who was so clueless he used Valimaki on the PK instead of the PP...finally ends up in the Finnish men's league where by now he's been playing little and lost his confidence..think he's going to find it versus men at his age?

Just the fact he was playing in the mens' leagues all year at his age was impressive..regardless of whether he scored. He dropped in my rankings because I wondered about his finish...but the entire time I told myself the U-18s would be so very important for him as we'd actually got to see him vs. his peers..and see if he could indeed finish...well..he can!!

there were no issues with his skating, work ethic, smarts or puck skills going in..what folks were wondering about was his ability to finish and create offence as he hasn't been able to display it much vs. men Well..he's shown that he indeed has that ability.

And it's not like he has only looked good at the U-18. Vesalainen..if you look back through the videos on my site...had two two-goal games when he went back to Finnish junior where he made some dynamite plays....he had already found his confidence back in junior at the end of March/early April and was playing terrifically

I maintained for the past two months for different reasons that the U-18's would be ultra important for both Liljegren and Vesalainen....and Vesa has stepped up to the plate. His skill package for his size is second to none.

Like you said, the literally same can be said about Liljegren and add the mono to that. You put way to much weight into a 7 game series at the END of the season.
Liljegren was great at the Hlinka, but that's forgotten, lol.

 

[maaran]

1) Zettrrberg
2) Getzlaf
3) patrick Kane
4) Daniel Sedin
5) ryan Johansen

Lol Daniel Sedin is not a vilardi

 

[Gunner Stahl]

I get the sentiment but I think you should read his post directly to me. Yes he did specifically ask me what records were broken. Then cited team records for the leafs and how laine beat one leaf record too (teams count, countries don't?) and proceeded to claim importance in the record of 18 year old scoring in a tournament virtually no good 18 year olds play in. There was lots of coverage about him beating the all time Us record in media.

Honestly I never had an issue with his rankings. Totally forgot that he picked laine (ok that's fine). His justifications make him look really bad imo. Surprising........

Making mountains out of molehills here. His justifications aren't that bad.

NTM anyone who is willing to post such detailed information about their own rankings should be applauded not denounced. I imagine a lot of work/time goes into production.

If you don't agree with someones individual ranks that's fine, these rankings aren't law. Just one guys opinion, and they should be considered as such.

Also country specific records are absolutely ridiculous.