Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 2

[Stammertime91]

Gun to your head. Would you all rather give Russell 4x4 or Shattenkirk 7x6?

Russell. Less money and less term equals less of a problem for a shorter time. Plus he's a shot blocker and a lefty. Garrison was pretty good at blocking shots his first year iirc so that would be welcomed. Not to mention he's cheaper then Garrison and put up similar, yet poor, numbers this year.

I wouldn't want him in any other situation though lol.

 

[Stammertime91]

I'm with you on that option. It's grown on me throughout the day. The main benefit of bringing Marleau, or I guess any useful veteran, is we can at least control the term on their contract. Sort of like a Sami Salo situation again. A stop gap until somebody else is ready to take over the role.

Yeah, I really do want this to happen. He's basically our best and one of our only options at getting help over the next season or possibly two. He's got it all and he would come at a fair price as well. Not to mention signing him still gives us some room to work with in acquiring a defenseman whereas damn near any other top FA doesnt. I'd rather have Marleau/Palat on the left than to have Killorn/Palat for an entire season in which they perform like Jeckyl and Hyde (Honestly that's a pretty good nickname for them).

1-2 years gives a few prospects some time to develop and push for a spot. Who knows, maybe Gourde plays his way in a bigger role and can hit 20 goals. I've been wanting us to have a 25 goal guy for a while as that is the gamebreaker we need. Flip lost the ability, Drouin is gone and bottom 6 production is non existent. If we can't find it in areas we are trading or aren't improving, we have to load up the top 6. We have to. That's the only key to actually getting past Pittsburgh (besides fixing the bottom 6 with productive players not named JT Brown). Our defense is just as good if not better as of right now, but our offense is not.

 

[DFC]

Yeah, I really do want this to happen. He's basically our best and one of our only options at getting help over the next season or possibly two. He's got it all and he would come at a fair price as well. Not to mention signing him still gives us some room to work with in acquiring a defenseman whereas damn near any other top FA doesnt. I'd rather have Marleau/Palat on the left than to have Killorn/Palat for an entire season in which they perform like Jeckyl and Hyde (Honestly that's a pretty good nickname for them).

1-2 years gives a few prospects some time to develop and push for a spot. Who knows, maybe Gourde plays his way in a bigger role and can hit 20 goals. I've been wanting us to have a 25 goal guy for a while as that is the gamebreaker we need. Flip lost the ability, Drouin is gone and bottom 6 production is non existent. If we can't find it in areas we are trading or aren't improving, we have to load up the top 6. We have to. That's the only key to actually getting past Pittsburgh (besides fixing the bottom 6 with productive players not named JT Brown). Our defense is just as good if not better as of right now, but our offense is not.

Erne might eventually be that guy. 20-25 goals, 40-50 points, with a legit physical game. Probably not this year though.

And Palat is a Jekyl and Hyde unto himself.

 

[Todd1a]

Gun to your head. Would you all rather give Russell 4x4 or Shattenkirk 7x6?

shattenkirk if I had to pick one lol

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Because he's effective as a bottom pair defender and he's fairly cheap. We don't have a replacement waiting in the wings yet, Cernak needs a couple of years and I'm not sure how Blujus is sitting with the organization after what Groulx did to him.

I keep seeing this, but he even underperforms for a third pairing D. He is quantifiable bad.

 

[Todd1a]

Sign Del Zotto and Versteeg and call it a offseason then let the kids fill in the remaining spots.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Sign Del Zotto and Versteeg and call it a offseason then let the kids fill in the remaining spots.

...and tell the fans to tune back in around the 2018 offseason.

 

[Leonardo87]

1-2 years gives a few prospects some time to develop and push for a spot. Who knows, maybe Gourde plays his way in a bigger role and can hit 20 goals. I've been wanting us to have a 25 goal guy for a while as that is the gamebreaker we need. Flip lost the ability, Drouin is gone and bottom 6 production is non existent. If we can't find it in areas we are trading or aren't improving, we have to load up the top 6. We have to. That's the only key to actually getting past Pittsburgh (besides fixing the bottom 6 with productive players not named JT Brown). Our defense is just as good if not better as of right now, but our offense is not.

Stamkos and Callahan returning will add much needed production, will also have better shutting down, and a better PK with these guys back. I think it might be time to move Brown and Paquette, and if needed have Vladdy as the 4C with Erne and maybe bring back Boyle as the 4C. You move Killorn to the 3rd line with Cally and Gourde centering them, and will have a very good strong 3rd line. Killorn and Cally have very good chemistry and on a 3rd line they will be more free to play a two way style, and will have less pressure than being in the Top 6. I mean a Callahan with one hip is more productive than most of the current bottom 6. So him back healthy should be night and day for the bottom 6. Don't lose faith in #24, he has a lot of prove and wants to get back and be a strong force. You then can go after a FA or someone via trade to fill in one of the Top 6 winger roles. Have the cap to do it and don't have to spend like 6 million a year on one forward or one Top 4 D. Can get both for around 8 or 9 million, and they have that and then some. Think they will have like 10 to 12 million left over once Palat, Johnson, and other RFAs are signed. So are in good shape now to make moves.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I keep seeing this, but he even underperforms for a third pairing D. He is quantifiable bad.

His hero chart isn't that bad, his shot generation isn't great but his suppression is good. The charts Raw Charge used at the end of the year were also fairly favorable to him in a few areas. He's not perfect in every area but does enough to get by. For his ice time and zone starts he produces ok offensively, he needs work in some areas but can get by well enough in a 3rd pair role.

 

[Todd1a]

...and tell the fans to tune back in around the 2018 offseason.

Yes I want no more stupid incoming contracts! only long term deals we need to invest in are Palat and Johnson that's it. Our goal should be to avoid the blackhawks cap mess one day and we have so far.

 

[Todd1a]

Hawks are in cap hell maybe we can pick up Richard Panik for Jt brown and a pick ?

 

[Leonardo87]

Yes I want no more stupid incoming contracts! only long term deals we need to invest in are Palat and Johnson that's it. Our goal should be to avoid the blackhawks cap mess one day and we have so far.

Which is why I think a guy like Marleau is a good idea. Won't be long term at all, and because of his age won't cost that much. But will he be willing to leave San Jose? Have a lot of young kids coming up, throw in some vets along with our existing vets and will have a very good balance of players. I am sure during the free look period Yzerman will be contacting his agent.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Sign Del Zotto and Versteeg and call it a offseason then let the kids fill in the remaining spots.

Why do we need Versteeg? We have Killorn and Callahan already, he's not an upgrade on either. Del Zotto might be an ok choice for a reclamation project, problem is I see him taking minutes from Koekkoek which I don't like.

 

[Todd1a]

Which is why I think a guy like Marleau is a good idea. Won't be long term at all, and because of his age won't cost that much. But will he be willing to leave San Jose? Have a lot of young kids coming up, throw in some vets along with our existing vets and will have a very good balance of players. I am sure during the free look period Yzerman will be contacting his agent.

I've always liked Marleau but I'm worried he is going to hit his wall with us. Can he skate in our system at age 37 ?

 

[The Macho King]

I've always liked Marleau but I'm worried he is going to hit his wall with us. Can he skate in our system at age 37 ?

He's always (and still is) a great skater. I'm not worried about that.

And if he hits a wall, he hits a wall. There's always a risk with older players (see: Brendan Morrow, although he had already hit the wall by the time he came to us), but Marleau is incredibly talented and is still producing. This is a low risk, solid reward type play, and a smarter way of spending our cap then investing long-term in a guy like Shattenkirk or Alzner.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

This is our reality going forward:

1) We don't have the trade chips to score a legit puck moving top 4 D.

2) Only way we can come close to one is if we find a team that needs to dump cap and they value our 1st plus average prospect in return.

...

6) This is looking very, very tough for us to actually have an IMPROVED roster with MORE talent.

i missed this yesterday, but you're forgetting that there are plenty of teams that are ONLY interested in futures. take the wild for example, no first or second round draft picks this year, and they have their own RFAs to worry about. we have plenty of prospects, and trading them for help now (hello dumba) would fit nicely into your "win now window" philosophy.

so, we have more than our "1st plus average prospect" to work with in getting a trade, and that's why we're optimistic. i can be done, just...will it?

 

[The Macho King]

i missed this yesterday, but you're forgetting that there are plenty of teams that are ONLY interested in futures. take the wild for example, no first or second round draft picks this year, and they have their own RFAs to worry about. we have plenty of prospects, and trading them for help now (hello dumba) would fit nicely into your "win now window" philosophy.

so, we have more than our "1st plus average prospect" to work with in getting a trade, and that's why we're optimistic. i can be done, just...will it?

I don't think we're getting Dumba, for the record. Most likely to move in Minny is Scandella (who I still think would be a good add).

 

[Todd1a]

He's always (and still is) a great skater. I'm not worried about that.

And if he hits a wall, he hits a wall. There's always a risk with older players (see: Brendan Morrow, although he had already hit the wall by the time he came to us), but Marleau is incredibly talented and is still producing. This is a low risk, solid reward type play, and a smarter way of spending our cap then investing long-term in a guy like Shattenkirk or Alzner.

I agree I'd even risk giving him a two year term to get it done I just don't want yzerman handing out a 7 yeAR term to a fa like shatty

 

[CupsOverCash]

Anybody in favor of trading Johnson for top 4 D? We have Point. We can sign a couple of F in free agency. I'm a little worried about his injuries and giving him a long term deal. Sharp would be a decent 3C. Maybe make a move for Kovalchuck.

 

[The Macho King]

If we trade Johnson we have to get back a stud. So it's possible, but not a move I'd be in a rush to make.

 

[Stammertime91]

Anybody in favor of trading Johnson for top 4 D? We have Point. We can sign a couple of F in free agency. I'm a little worried about his injuries and giving him a long term deal. Sharp would be a decent 3C. Maybe make a move for Kovalchuck.

When we had Drouin I would've but trading him or Palat right now while keeping Killorn is a step backwards. The key is not signing either one to ridiculous contracts. Point needs to show he can play a full season and produce up to 2C standards before we move our 2C for him. If Johnson is signed to a fair contract, there's always the possibility of moving him next off-season if we still need a defenseman.

 

[Todd1a]

Anybody in favor of trading Johnson for top 4 D? We have Point. We can sign a couple of F in free agency. I'm a little worried about his injuries and giving him a long term deal. Sharp would be a decent 3C. Maybe make a move for Kovalchuck.

nope we need center depth for cup runs unless we got a over the top offer for johnson! which we won't since we moved drouin for a defenseman.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Columbus just got younger and better. Toronto and Columbus are both young and scary - what we were 3 years ago.

Right now Pitt, Wash, Columbus and maybe Monteal and Toronto are better than us. Just in the East.

Yzerman - do some work...

 

[Leonardo87]

Now we are getting rid of Johnson? Come on guys. This is crazier than my Callahan obsession lol, ok maybe not but still kinda crazy. Johnson won't be crazy expensive he knows he can't get as much.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Now we are getting rid of Johnson? Come on guys. This is crazier than my Callahan obsession lol, ok maybe not but still kinda crazy. Johnson won't be crazy expensive he knows he can't get as much.

My suggestion was coming from how small the cupboard is for top 4 d in FA. Usually is a big price to pay in FA to sign one too. We could probably get one in a trade who has a decent contract. While there is decent forwards available in FA. I don't want to trade Johnson. As others suggested we need the depth at forward but we would still be able to sign some in FA if we did trade Johnson. It's just an idea.