Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 2

[Leonardo87]

I needed this.

Some good news. Total pricetag on goaltending under $5m.

Well there is going to be a nice amount of cap now. One good thing is they are not in Cap constraints or cap hell anymore. Well never in cap hell but now have room to not only breathe but make upgraded if needed.

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

The Wonderful Wizard of Yz has a new video up on the main TBL website. He talks about the offseason priorities.

Yzerman on Offseason Goals

I found it very interesting that he said TWICE that improving defense didn't necessarily mean changing the defense core but that the whole team needed to commit to team defense. While he was talking about it being a team thing, they showed video of Heddy and Stråls making some awesome defensive plays.

Verrrrry interesting as to what it might mean for trades/acquisitions this offseason as well as next season's roster!

 

[Volodya Krutov]

inb4 Kucherov for Couturier

 

[Todd1a]

The Wonderful Wizard of Yz has a new video up on the main TBL website. He talks about the offseason priorities.

Yzerman on Offseason Goals

I found it very interesting that he said TWICE that improving defense didn't necessarily mean changing the defense core but that the whole team needed to commit to team defense. While he was talking about it being a team thing, they showed video of Heddy and Stråls making some awesome defensive plays.

Verrrrry interesting as to what it might mean for trades/acquisitions this offseason as well as next season's roster!

Noooooooo that means sustr could be coming back!!!!

 

[Stammertime91]

The Wonderful Wizard of Yz has a new video up on the main TBL website. He talks about the offseason priorities.

Yzerman on Offseason Goals

I found it very interesting that he said TWICE that improving defense didn't necessarily mean changing the defense core but that the whole team needed to commit to team defense. While he was talking about it being a team thing, they showed video of Heddy and Stråls making some awesome defensive plays.

Verrrrry interesting as to what it might mean for trades/acquisitions this offseason as well as next season's roster!

Off-season goals.

1. Trade the ugly
2. Free the giraffe
3. ???
4. Profit

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

Noooooooo that means sustr could be coming back!!!!

As much as I've ragged on him all season, he did start looking a wee bit more competent by the last month or so. But yeah, it would be nice to not have to worry every time he stepped on the ice. *sigh*

It's funny, but a whole bunch of the Mock Expansion Drafts on the main Trades board have Vegas as picking Shu. Was rather....um....surprised. lol

 

[berlin]

Noooooooo that means sustr could be coming back!!!!

Sustr was surprisingly decent last season.

 

[RDTBay4]

As much as I've ragged on him all season, he did start looking a wee bit more competent by the last month or so. But yeah, it would be nice to not have to worry every time he stepped on the ice. *sigh*

It's funny, but a whole bunch of the Mock Expansion Drafts on the main Trades board have Vegas as picking Shu. Was rather....um....surprised. lol

I agree, he did improve a lot last season. Potential break out year for him this year.

 

[Stammertime91]

I agree, he did improve a lot last season. Potential break out year for him this year.

Lmao did hose hack you guys?

I for one thought Sustr was, per the usual, ****.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

inb4 Kucherov for Couturier

inb4 city of tampa on suicide watch

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Off-season goals.

1. Trade the ugly
2. Free the giraffe
3. ???
4. Profit

who is the ugly?

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

Lmao did hose hack you guys?

I for one thought Sustr was, per the usual, ****.

LOL For most of the year, I quite agree. I still have nightmares about seeing Sustr more than once just STANDING beside the net watching as the opposition puts in a rebound.

But the last 10 games when we were making that big push, he actually finished some checks, made some not-totally-horrid plays and even made some hits!

BTW, Shu does NOT appear in any of those Good Defensive Moments playing while Yzerman was talking. Just saying...

 

[VoluntaryDom]

omg stop pretending sustr was good

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

omg stop pretending sustr was good

Ahh, I never said Shu was good, I just said he wasn't quite as horrid during the last 10 games.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Ahh, I never said Shu was good, I just said he wasn't quite as horrid during the last 10 games.

ok, carry on

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

I watched the part of the Yzerman vid where the good defensive plays were being shown a couple more times and what they showed was interesting. Well, at least to me because I'm fascinated by the defensive side of hockey.

Hedman stopping Panarin
Strålman stopping McDavid with Kucherov grabbing the puck
Strålman stopping Nordström with Coburn grabbing the freed puck
Hedman blocking Turris and then grabbing the rebounded puck from Dzingel

Interesting choice of plays, eh?

 

[Stammertime91]

who is the ugly?

Jonathan Ugly

LOL For most of the year, I quite agree. I still have nightmares about seeing Sustr more than once just STANDING beside the net watching as the opposition puts in a rebound.

But the last 10 games when we were making that big push, he actually finished some checks, made some not-totally-horrid plays and even made some hits!

BTW, Shu does NOT appear in any of those Good Defensive Moments playing while Yzerman was talking. Just saying...

Proper use of emojis tbh...

When I see Sustr, I see the same player he's been the last what? 4 grueling years we've had him? I can say he's had two stretches of his career where he looked serviceable beyond an AHL call up. Prior to the 2015 playoff run for about 15 games and last year as well towards the end of the season. Apart from that, he's one of the most vanilla players I've ever seen play. He's as physical as Purcell in a corner, about as gifted with a puck as Brown is on a breakaway, and in his own zone beside his net, he's about as smart as Matt Cooke seeing a players numbers/back of the head.

I'd celebrate like it was 2004 if he was moved prior to this season.

Hose incoming...

 

[Todd1a]

Jonathan Ugly



Proper use of emojis tbh...

When I see Sustr, I see the same player he's been the last what? 4 grueling years we've had him? I can say he's had two stretches of his career where he looked serviceable beyond an AHL call up. Prior to the 2015 playoff run for about 15 games and last year as well towards the end of the season. Apart from that, he's one of the most vanilla players I've ever seen play. He's as physical as Purcell in a corner, about as gifted with a puck as Brown is on a breakaway, and in his own zone beside his net, he's about as smart as Matt Cooke seeing a players numbers/back of the head.

I'd celebrate like it was 2004 if he was moved prior to this season.

Hose incoming...

Yep in 4 years I've seen no improvement from sustr time to give a ahl kid a shot to replace him

 

[Sky04]

lol @ the Sustr hate, he actually has improved tons since his rookie year, are you guys blind?

 

[Stammertime91]

lol @ the Sustr hate, he actually has improved tons since his rookie year, are you guys blind?

No white text. Disappointed.

 

[Sky04]

No white text. Disappointed.

Oh you don't think he's improved? Guess you're watching with blinders on.

 

[Stammertime91]

Oh you don't think he's improved? Guess you're watching with blinders on.

Why are you always so condescending towards everybody on here? Every post you take pot shots at fellow lightning fans, why? But no, my opinion is that he's improved very little, marginally actually. His shot is the same, his skating is pretty much the same minus his transitioning and timing being a little better than his first game. His transition game (with the exception of the two what the hell Sustr? moments a season where he scores) and passing is terrible. His defensive awareness can be shown in a video of "what not to do" in front of your own net in preseason, regular and Stanley Cup final games. His physicality and at the very least, taking care of his man is poor considering his frame. He's burned way too often with that reach. I think he's one of the more drawn out projects we've tried in the last 10 years and why he's still here is beyond me. Witkowski in his short stints has been better than him at times. Dotchin has looked better already. I mean, after so many games, you think he would've made something his own by now, but he hasnt. There's nothing of value in keeping Sustr on the blueline. He brings nothing to the table damn near any other defenseman can't bring. He's been average for so long, there's nothing I can say he's actually worked at that's made an impression.

Hedman's skating has excelled from day one as well as his transition game, it's unreal. There's only a few defenseman I'd say are better or equal to him at the moment. Burns, Karlsson, Josi and Hedman. Just an example...not a comparison to Hedman. Sustr doesn't have a useful shot. I mean, for the price, he's fine at that role but I'd move him and let Dotchin or whoever the organization feels is the next project, Sergachev, Dotchin, Koekkoek, etc take his place.

I've yelled at my tv long enough now. Time to free the giraffe.

 

[Sky04]

Why are you always so condescending towards everybody on here? Every post you take pot shots at fellow lightning fans, why? But no, my opinion is that he's improved very little, marginally actually. His shot is the same, his skating is pretty much the same minus his transitioning and timing being a little better than his first game. His transition game (with the exception of the two what the hell Sustr? moments a season where he scores) and passing is terrible. His defensive awareness can be shown in a video of "what not to do" in front of your own net in preseason, regular and Stanley Cup final games. His physicality and at the very least, taking care of his man is poor considering his frame. He's burned way too often with that reach. I think he's one of the more drawn out projects we've tried in the last 10 years and why he's still here is beyond me. Witkowski in his short stints has been better than him at times. Dotchin has looked better already. I mean, after so many games, you think he would've made something his own by now, but he hasnt. There's nothing of value in keeping Sustr on the blueline. He brings nothing to the table damn near any other defenseman can't bring. He's been average for so long, there's nothing I can say he's actually worked at that's made an impression.

Asked you a serious question, by all metics Sustr has improved just about every year and was widely praised for that on the boards earlier this year which he showed noticeable improvement for the first couple months. So when you make statements like:

Lmao did hose hack you guys?

I for one thought Sustr was, per the usual, ****.

Is it your hate for him or do you have selective memory of only when he makes mistakes? or a recency bias towards the end of the season? I mean your Witkowski analysis makes no sense either, considering Wikowski came up, took Sustr's spot on the bottom pairing and pushed him up against harder competition. If Witkowski was better why was he the one sheltered and playing half as much minutes?

For the time he spent on the bottom pairing this year where he's supposed to be did he well as opposed to his first 2 years where he was just bad regardless, so if you want to hold it against him that he got thrown onto the 1st and 2nd pairing because of injuries and did bad then sure. Could we use an upgrade on him? Sure but if he came back as a bottom pairing defenseman we'd be fine as well, he's not as bad as some of you guys are making it out to be especially considering the cost as well.

 

[Stammertime91]

Asked you a serious question, by all metics Sustr has improved just about every year and was widely praised for that on the boards earlier this year which he showed noticeable improvement for the first couple months. So when you make statements like:



Is it your hate for him or do you have selective memory of only when he makes mistakes? or a recency bias towards the end of the season? I mean your Witkowski analysis makes no sense either, considering Wikowski came up, took Sustr's spot on the bottom pairing and pushed him up against harder competition. If Witkowski was better why was he the one sheltered and playing half as much minutes?

For the time he spent on the bottom pairing this year where he's supposed to be did he well as opposed to his first 2 years where he was just bad regardless, so if you want to hold it against him that he got thrown onto the 1st and 2nd pairing because of injuries and did bad then sure. Could we use an upgrade on him? Sure but if he came back as a bottom pairing defenseman we'd be fine as well, he's not as bad as some of you guys are making it out to be especially considering the cost as well.

Ah, it's much better in a dialogue to assume somebody has a selective memory or a hatred toward a player. Note taking commences.

So because people widely praised Killorn when he had 50% of his goals in the first two weeks on this board, should we still be praising him now? No. Great. Kudos to Sustr for having 10 great games a year out of 82. On one hand, you complain about Palat not showing up until February and on the other hand Sustr has somehow improved because a collection of fans on this board praised him for a 10-15 or however many game stretch.

Specifically, what has improved in his +300 games in the NHL? Because I sure as hell am not noticing a whole lot. I've given him credit in the past on two occasions where it FINALLY looked like he was developing and progressing, but like clockwork, the dark side of Sustr appears and it's the version we got from him at game 1, as opposed to game 274. To be clear, im not saying he should be top 2 or 4 material, but at the 6/7, he's a liability out there against tough competition. I'll grant you 15 games a year he looks competent, but for the remaining 67, he looks like an emergency call up, not a guy that has played over 300 games including two deep runs in the playoffs. His progress just isn't there in my opinion. Certainly not worth clogging up the lane for Dotchin, Slater and potentially Sergachev.

Secondly, one defenseman has 274 regular season games and the other has 54. Witkowski has provided stability in the same role and brings physicality, something we are in dire need of. The only thing Sustr beats him on is his foot speed, and not by much. The saving grace for Sustr over Witkowski is his reach. Besides that, we'd save a little on cap and have somebody willing to actually use his body to tie up his man. That's with 54 games played. I feel confident that if Luke had 200 games or even as many as Sustr, he'd be more effective. Recency bias? If by 274 games recent then yes, watching him lose coverages Matt Carle would be ashamed of at 6'8" in nearly 300 games played, then absolutely. It's the same story with him year after year. Look good, suck, suck, suck even more, look good, finish off poorly. If you're gonna lynch Palat, Johnson and Killorn, it's only consistent to do so with Sustr's lackluster play for 75% of the time.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Sustr was surprisingly decent last season.

I don't agree. In fact it's mindboggling to me why he's used for defensive zone starts so much. Arguably his biggest weakness are zone exits. The guy can't clear let alone hit a target with an outlet pass to save his life. His unwillingness or inability to play the body even one time out of five despite his huge frame is so frustrating and feels like such a waste of tools. He's always going for the poke check, misses it 9/10 times and then gets beat flat footed afterwards. Time after time. No adaption, no lessons learned, same thing again and again. In board battles he'll never pin his man to the wall although he's a giant and let somebody else do the digging. Always digging for the puck himself - and failing. If there was a highlight video of defensive plays for last season I'd bet Sustr wouldn't be in it. And what does he have to offer offensively? Unless you're Garrison his numbers aren't exactly something to look up to.

For the majority of the season I found myself concerned everytime he hit the ice. It's like we're playing with 4.5 players versus 5 when he's on. At least that was my perception for the most part.

Don't get me wrong I would be so happy to see him finally figure it out. He's not going to be the next Chara but damn it kid, get a grip, use your huge body to put some fear in your opponents instead of backing down way too soon everytime somebody crosses your blueline, fanning your stick around like someone playing hockey for the first time.


Edit: I'm not saying he hasn't improved in his 250+ games. I'm saying what he brings to the table now and on a regular basis is still not good enough. Is he okay on a 3rd pairing with someone like Coburn? Most likely yes. Are there better options out there? Definite yes. Should management look into giving somebody else in the organisation a chance in his place? I'm leaning to yes. Ask yourself are we going to be worse with a Koekkoek-Coburn pairing than Sustr-Coburn? No, and there is a good chance we're getting better when KK gets some games under his belt. Replace KK with any other ready-ish defensive prospect in the system.