I think he was referring to the amount of games Stamkos has missed over the last several years.
Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion - Part 2
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I think he was referring to the amount of games Stamkos has missed over the last several years.
Pitts offense reminds me a bit of our 2011 team.
I mean we had our two studs in Vinny/Marty and we brought in Gagne who was our Kessel. Add a young Stamkos and we had depth.
LTIR Trickery
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Right, but from 10-13 he (Crosby) played like... slightly over a season in 3 years. Then they started loading up on F depth and taking runs on out-of-favor defensemen.
We're roughly doing the same thing, just a few years later.
We're roughly doing the same thing, just a few years later.
Sky04
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Which was all for naught before they fired 2 coaches who were running the wrong system and getting them nowhere
LTIR Trickery
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Which was all for naught before they fired 2 coaches who were running the wrong system and getting them nowhere
Thats true! Very true bro.
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
We had more scoring depth on our 2011 team but our defense was even more terrible
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
None yzerman won't even get vanek idk know who we could target? But losing drouin is a major hole right now. When we pay palat and Johnson we won't have much to play with still need a back up goalie and fill out the rest of our d. It be a dream if Vegas drafted James Neal and we traded for him
Sky04
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Crosby and Malkin didn't have a Kucherov, Palat or a Drouin on wing... besides if you go by playoffs our Crosby/Malkin is Johnson and Kucherov, Stamkos would be the "Kessel" or "Hossa".
We've been even on the top end compared to Chicago and Pittsburgh the past 3 years.
LTIR Trickery
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I really wouldn't be surprised about Marleau, though. Steve has been after him for the better part of about four or five seasons.
Do you think, as of today, the Drouin trade has put the team in a worse spot for next year?
If so, do you think enough moves will be made to make this team better than last year come preseason?
Somebody brought up Pittsburg, we have just as much fire power up front as them outside of Crosby/Malkin. But Stamkos and Kucherov can be that.
Crosby > Kucherov, close
Malkin > Stamkos, if healthy close
Kessel > Palat, salary makes it close
Sheary < Johnson, if healthy
Hornqvist = Killorn, Hornqvist production has been falling
Kunitz = Callahan, both overpaid disappointments
Guentzel = Point, both young and good
Bonino > Namestnikov, Bonino is more proven but might walk
Rust > Gourde, Rust is proven but Gourde looks good
It looks heavily favored for them but they have some who are getting older and slowing down or will be gone, Hornqvist, Kunitz and Bonino. Guentzel had a good rookie year so not sure how next year goes. Shear had a career year so expect him to come back to earth. They're top 2 are better and make the others better which is where we lose but top 9 to top 9, when healthy we are close.
I don't think anyone is comparing Pitt to us straight up. I think it's more an observation based on core talent on each team.
With that said, the Drouin loss is a major blow to our offense. That's A LOT of playmaking that is now gone. A lot of setups and extended plays that are now gone - esspecially on the PP.
We need to find a way to try to make up for a lot of that.
LTIR Trickery
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Thats too... black and white to answer, I think. No denying how talented Drouin is and yes, with him on the roster you're a better team, you don't find many guys with his creativity. Hes really, really good, no?
BUT... lets face it, Coburn and Garrison basically drug this team into the mud and it couldn't always skate its way out of it. We'd dress 7 D to hide Sustr, because hes ****, and cut down everyones minutes to attempt to make 5/55/62 serviceable. I'm all for playing to strengths and hiding weaknesses, but its like anything else - bad foundation makes a bad home and you can't engineer your way out, bad ingredients make a bad meal and you can't cook your way out, aging players will make for a bad defense and you can't manage your way out of it. You dress 11 forwards as a result, which means you have no forward line continuity, and you end up double shifting someone frequently, which also tires out your forwards. We complained a lot about the team looking slow, and I have no doubts this played into it at times.
Really, this is a question that has about 30 different answers depending on what is available and who you ask. I hate losing Drouin but Sergachev can step right in and hopefully grow into that role. Are we a better team? Right now, on paper, the honest answer is probably not, but lets chat again around the all star break and find out. We have to do something with this defense, and if we didn't, we might as well start exploring tee times in late April.
EDIT: Didn't address the last part... I have no doubts there are things moving behind the scenes to make us better, but I doubt anyone is trying to do us any favors. That said, we've seen SY pull off some three way trades I think twice now, and I wouldn't be the least bit shocked to see him try to pull someone like Brodin or Dumba through Vegas to Tampa. I'd also imagine that about 25 other teams are trying to do the same thing.
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LTIR Trickery
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I didn't post that to compare rosters and say we're better by any stretch, just to point out the pattern of roster building and timing of things, a bit ironic.
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
Sky04
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The problem was just as much scoring if not more. The defense has ALWAYS been bad dating back to 2014, except we had scoring and elite goaltending to make up for defensive lapses.
You're seeing it exposed because the offense has been neutered and Bishop's back finally broke.
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
Build like Pittsburgh just get d guys that can skate don't have to be all stars . Then we need to add our kessel.
LTIR Trickery
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I don't know if I fully agree with that. The defense two and three years ago was plenty serviceable - not great, but Garrison still played like a 4 slot D, he and Coburn traded minutes in that spot successfully, Stralman avoided injury, Hedman avoided injury, and you actually had a weird but successful blend of guys who played in spots they shouldn't have, but did so successfully because they could bring one or two traits to the defense that had been needed. Barberio/Nesterov... forgettable in the D zone, but Nesty could move the puck and produce some points from the back end. Gudas wasn't the fastest and could get torched by faster teams, but he could also move the puck and eat minutes when necessary, and would feast on slower more methodical teams. Brewer could be an anchor that played back for Koekkoek/Barbs/Nesterov/etc to run around and try to make things happen.
I'll agree on the goaltending part though, and I wonder how much Steve kicks himself for last season. Splitting time with a workhorse like Ben and a kid like Vasy that is desperate to be a workhorse ended up being a recipe for disaster. I also wonder if the return would have been nicer around the draft on Ben, but of course going that route and leaving the reins to the kid to start the year is its own gamble.
I'll have to find someplace to dig up the numbers, but i'd like to take a 5 year picture of zone starts for this team and possibly find icing numbers as well. We all know about the faceoff issues from last year, we're still griping about it, and rightfully so. I have a feeling DZ starts are much higher last year than the previous four.
LTIR Trickery
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If it were that easy though Barberio would be here and successful. Need to find guys with good zone exit rates, decent passing and skating ability, and average+ possession rates. I know I listed some previously, forget if it was in this thread though...
LTIR Trickery
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