Salary Cap: 2017-18 Roster Building Thread VI | Contract/FA charts in Post #1 | CAP SET at $75M

[Darth Vitale]

I think today will be a day where GMs are evaluating options and making calls.

Predict no major trades today, maybe a couple modest ones tomorrow. Any big trades will happen on draft day so Uncle Gary can revel in his most prized role: "I have a trade to announce..."

 

[BuppY]

Is Illya Kovalchuk an option on short term deal?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I think today will be a day where GMs are evaluating options and making calls.

Predict no major trades today, maybe a couple modest ones tomorrow. Any big trades will happen on draft day so Uncle Gary can revel in his most prized role: "I have a trade to announce..."

Agreed, I think the bigger moves happen tomorrow night at the draft

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

I think today will be a day where GMs are evaluating options and making calls.

Predict no major trades today, maybe a couple modest ones tomorrow. Any big trades will happen on draft day so Uncle Gary can revel in his most prized role: "I have a trade to announce..."

Isn't tomorrow draft day?

 

[WayneSid9987]

Isn't tomorrow draft day?

Tomorrow night yea.

Is Illya Kovalchuk an option on short term deal?

Gotta think he's looking for 5-6M so i'd say no atm.

 

[Coach Travis]

He's been mentioned before I believe, but Chris Stewart might be a decent option for the 3rd or 4th line

I feel like Chris Stewart's name has been brought up on this board the last 8 years now.

But seriously. No.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Is Illya Kovalchuk an option on short term deal?

I just don't think it's worth it, and I'm a bigger Kovalchuk fan than most people. He likely doesn't have the speed he used to, he'll be a problem for Sullivan, i.e. doesn't play a team game, and the defense should be our focus if anything.

I said similar things about Thornton which I still believe. Where do you put him on the power play? Who sits for him? Do you relegate him to the 2nd unit? Why would he be happy about that? And actually Thornton makes more sense here even than Kovalchuk does because Thornton would actually give a crap about a Cup.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Isn't tomorrow draft day?

Tomorrow night yea.

Yeah sorry I should've said on the floor of the draft. So maybe a couple during the workday and then any big trades on the floor, likely early in the round. Although I dunno. No stand-out elite talents in this draft and seems to be some consensus it's deeper 10-30 than most, so could happen throughout.

 

[DegenX]

I agree with this. All of it. While it's an extremely exciting time for the Pens coming off back-to-back, going for a name doesn't make sense. Make the smart simple move. You have a great core and great depth right now. Identify the best fitting 3C, defensive depth, and a back up goalie. Don't hunt down flashy names.

Last year was the most boring offseason for the Pens and it was perfect. Nobody was overpaid, Lovejoy left after a great postseason, and Sully luckily didn't over-flirt w/ what worked last year. Keep doing that same thing. If we need something during the season, make a hockey trade.



72 is the guy who gets the crappy goals in 1 goal games. I will be very upset when he's moved out of here just because he doesn't fit perfectly in our top 6. The fact he doesn't fit sometimes is exactly what we need. A puck off his body and in, a grindy goal, something dirty.

He's literally the only guy in our line up that does that. I don't think you can put Rust in that same discussion. Horny is on a different universe at doing that. So if he frustrates Sid/Geno, who cares? He does stuff we need.

As does Hagelin, who has a smaller cap hit. I appreciate what Hornqvist brings to the team, believe me, but what he does is easier to duplicate than what Hagelin does. Parking their ass in the paint and making life difficult for the goalie is something the coaching staff can instill.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Has Schmidt been delivered yet?

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

As does Hagelin, who has a smaller cap hit. I appreciate what Hornqvist brings to the team, believe me, but what he does is easier to duplicate than what Hagelin does. Parking their ass in the paint and making life difficult for the goalie is something the coaching staff can instill.

Name all the guys in the league that play Hornqvist's game and at his level or better. I like Hags but he is an incredibly fast skater with no other skill set to speak of. Maybe if you replace him that guy isn't as fast, but that would be the only clear drawback and you'd likely make gains in other areas.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Has Schmidt been delivered yet?

If Schmidt is everything I hear, why in the heck would Vegas trade a young good D? That makes zero sense

 

[TheSniper26]

As does Hagelin, who has a smaller cap hit. I appreciate what Hornqvist brings to the team, believe me, but what he does is easier to duplicate than what Hagelin does. Parking their ass in the paint and making life difficult for the goalie is something the coaching staff can instill.

Wow, I disagree with this completely. Best net front presence in the league and a proven 30 goal scorer or fast skater with little else in his offensive game? I mean I like Hags, and I'm probably selling him a little short with that description, but he's nowhere near Hornqvist's level or value imo.

 

[Shady Machine]

As does Hagelin, who has a smaller cap hit. I appreciate what Hornqvist brings to the team, believe me, but what he does is easier to duplicate than what Hagelin does. Parking their ass in the paint and making life difficult for the goalie is something the coaching staff can instill.

Totally disagree. You can teach it, but it takes a lot of strength, tenacity, craziness, and a dose of skill (bigger than we tend to give credit for) to be an effective net front that can screen a goalie, **** people off, tip/deflect pucks, and score garbage goals.

Hagelin is fast and very responsible defensively, but at 4MM, he's not nearly as valuable as Horny.

 

[tom_servo]

If Schmidt is everything I hear, why in the heck would Vegas trade a young good D? That makes zero sense

Especially since he is a McPhee guy to begin with. I don't see why he would give him up so easily.

 

[Peat]

Pretty much every guy on our roster does things we need.

The question is how much we'd miss it if it was gone and what would trading them get.

If we're using Horny as a 3rd liner who does top 6 duty on occasion and power play when we want a net front guy... I still like that, but I don't think its indispensible to us.

And as people have noted, his skill set is very valuable around the league. Trading Hags would get you cap space. Trading Horny gets you a legit return.

edit: Which could then be used for something nice. I'm not saying "Trade him for value!", I'm saying if you're looking for big pieces, Horny could get you a lot further.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Pretty much every guy on our roster does things we need.

The question is how much we'd miss it if it was gone and what would trading them get.

If we're using Horny as a 3rd liner who does top 6 duty on occasion and power play when we want a net front guy... I still like that, but I don't think its indispensible to us.

And as people have noted, his skill set is very valuable around the league. Trading Hags would get you cap space. Trading Horny gets you a legit return.

edit: Which could then be used for something nice. I'm not saying "Trade him for value!", I'm saying if you're looking for big pieces, Horny could get you a lot further.

Given how much this team gets hurt and how Sullivan was changing the lines in the playoffs I'm not sure we'll see Hornqvist kept out of a top 6 role for that long or when it counts.

 

[molon labe]

I see Hags and Hornqvist as two of the most irriplaceable guys on the roster and here's why:

Hags is the best forechecker we have bar none. His speed hunting down pucks is noticeable when he's healthy and the entire Pens team looks a lot more deadly when he's in the lineup. He's also a really good PK'er - part of that is because he can cover a larger ground than the next guy because of that speed.

Hornqvist is simply the catalyst to the Pens team. When we're frustrated - he's out there banging bodies and trying to get things done. When we're contempt with going into overtime, he gives it his all to make sure we don't. He has literally willed this team to victories so much over the past two seasons that I am shocked his name gets floated around here. As for his skillset - I believe it's common knowledge among hockey critics that he is the best net-front player in the NHL. Knowing that, you cannot replace him, you can only duplicate him with a major drop off.

Their price tags are high, but that's because they're the best at what they do in the luxury player department. Hornqvist gets paid high for a gritty net front guy, but that's because he's the best at doing so. Haggy gets paid a crazy amount for a forward with lackluster offensive talent, but that's because there isn't another forward who is as fast as he is WITH the forecheck and board play. Those who are unsure should really (and I mean really) take a look at the BoninoBoninoBonino goal from the Caps game 6 last year. That play was ENTIRELY fabricated via Hagelin.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

As does Hagelin, who has a smaller cap hit. I appreciate what Hornqvist brings to the team, believe me, but what he does is easier to duplicate than what Hagelin does. Parking their ass in the paint and making life difficult for the goalie is something the coaching staff can instill.

There's one guy in the league who can bring what PH does, and he plays for the Flyers, so we're probably not getting him. And I don't think even Simmonds has the determination PH does.

 

[DegenX]

Name all the guys in the league that play Hornqvist's game and at his level or better. I like Hags but he is an incredibly fast skater with no other skill set to speak of. Maybe if you replace him that guy isn't as fast, but that would be the only clear drawback and you'd likely make gains in other areas.

I'm not disparaging Hornqvist's game.

What I'm saying is this:
He doesn't mesh well with Geno overall. Geno might love playing with him, and their line will produce, because it's Malkin's line, but there won't be any real consistency or flow to the line.

He does mesh with Sid, but for whatever reason he seldom sees time there.

Drop him down to the third or fourth lines he's not as effective. Yes, I know, GWG Game 6. That was awesome, and I'll love him forever for it. But take him out of the top six, and he's not as effective.

He doesn't play his off side. So he's a RW only. That means he's also blocking a few other guys, like Rust, Archi and Sprong. All guys who fit the team identity better in terms of speed. Because, let's be honest, Hornqvist is one of our slowest skaters.

Hornqvist isn't the only guy on the team to park his ass in the paint either. He's just the only one who does it with any consistency and has done it long enough that he knows how to rattle the goaltender. Going to the paint is something the coaching staff can instill in each and every player on the team. Will they be as good at as Hornqvist? No, probably not. But it's something that should be happening every time this team is in the O zone, and not just when Hornqvist is on the ice.

$4.25M is a lot of money to pay for a guy who keeps getting pushed down the line-up.

Hagelin, on the other hand does bring something other than speed, although that fits the team identity to a T. He's tenacious on the forecheck, and is excellent on the PK.
He also works well with Geno and Kessel. Better than anyone else, so far. And $4M isn't an overpayment for a top 6 winger. Not going to lie, it would be great if he worked on his shot. This was a down year for him, but even in his typical years it's an area he can improve on.

This is why, overall, if I have to choose between Hagelin and Hornqvist, I'd rather keep Hagelin.

 

[hagelin1381]

If Schmidt is everything I hear, why in the heck would Vegas trade a young good D? That makes zero sense

i really doubt they move schmidt

 

[hagelin1381]

I see Hags and Hornqvist as two of the most irriplaceable guys on the roster and here's why:

Hags is the best forechecker we have bar none. His speed hunting down pucks is noticeable when he's healthy and the entire Pens team looks a lot more deadly when he's in the lineup. He's also a really good PK'er - part of that is because he can cover a larger ground than the next guy because of that speed.

Hornqvist is simply the catalyst to the Pens team. When we're frustrated - he's out there banging bodies and trying to get things done. When we're contempt with going into overtime, he gives it his all to make sure we don't. He has literally willed this team to victories so much over the past two seasons that I am shocked his name gets floated around here. As for his skillset - I believe it's common knowledge among hockey critics that he is the best net-front player in the NHL. Knowing that, you cannot replace him, you can only duplicate him with a major drop off.

Their price tags are high, but that's because they're the best at what they do in the luxury player department. Hornqvist gets paid high for a gritty net front guy, but that's because he's the best at doing so. Haggy gets paid a crazy amount for a forward with lackluster offensive talent, but that's because there isn't another forward who is as fast as he is WITH the forecheck and board play. Those who are unsure should really (and I mean really) take a look at the BoninoBoninoBonino goal from the Caps game 6 last year. That play was ENTIRELY fabricated via Hagelin.

take a look at Letang's game winner in game 6 vs SJS aswell.. Look at what Hornqvist is doing

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I guess the short version of the below is just the old cliché that Hornqvist provides ingredients we don't have much of on this team. I agree we have a certain identity, but every guy can't play the same way either.

I think he and Rust are mostly comparable at this stage, but again Hornqvist brings some different elements. I'm hopeful for Sprong but I honestly think people are underselling the fact that he still has more to show before anointing him as anything special. Archibald isn't even in the conversation.

Horqnvist getting moved around the lineup is a bit of extenuating circumstances. Sheary was lighting it up with Sid, so it was hard to deny that. Kessel is always going to take priority over him as well. Nothing to really be done about that, however when the games got tough Sheary was a shadow of what he was in the regular season, so it was certainly nice to have Horqnvist to put there.

As far as his net front talents, I would use your same statements to refute what you said. Sure, he's not the only guy to literally stand in front of the net and have success. He's the only one that can do it consistently though. That's a case for him not against him. Yes, every coach preaches going to the net. That's not what we're talking about here though. To actually be good as a net front guy, you have to be able to deflect pucks, have quick hands, and be able to turn around and find rebounds before the defense does. Some guys are better at it than others, just like anything else, and Horqnvist is better at it than most and better than probably anyone within his pay grade.

As for Hagelin, I agree. He fits our team extremely well. I just think there are players that can't match Hagelin's speed but can make up for it in other areas. Ah well. We both like both players.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

You want the least amount of turnover as possible in the lockeroom, after losing kunitz, Cullen, Daley, Fleury, etc.

Keep Hagelin and Hornqvist around. They're obviously great on the ice, but people keep forgetting about chemistry and the affect of losing too many players can do to the lockeroom.

 

[vodeni]

I see Hags and Hornqvist as two of the most irriplaceable guys on the roster and here's why:

Hags is the best forechecker we have bar none. His speed hunting down pucks is noticeable when he's healthy and the entire Pens team looks a lot more deadly when he's in the lineup. He's also a really good PK'er - part of that is because he can cover a larger ground than the next guy because of that speed.

Hornqvist is simply the catalyst to the Pens team. When we're frustrated - he's out there banging bodies and trying to get things done. When we're contempt with going into overtime, he gives it his all to make sure we don't. He has literally willed this team to victories so much over the past two seasons that I am shocked his name gets floated around here. As for his skillset - I believe it's common knowledge among hockey critics that he is the best net-front player in the NHL. Knowing that, you cannot replace him, you can only duplicate him with a major drop off.

Their price tags are high, but that's because they're the best at what they do in the luxury player department. Hornqvist gets paid high for a gritty net front guy, but that's because he's the best at doing so. Haggy gets paid a crazy amount for a forward with lackluster offensive talent, but that's because there isn't another forward who is as fast as he is WITH the forecheck and board play. Those who are unsure should really (and I mean really) take a look at the BoninoBoninoBonino goal from the Caps game 6 last year. That play was ENTIRELY fabricated via Hagelin.

I am with you one million percent. UB44 mentioned that Hags only skill is speed. Yes, Maybe, but that speed allows you to get to their d-man, pressure them and have your center or the pincher d-man scoop up the puck. Hags has that skill its not just speed, its anticipation and good positioning. This also allows you to carry not so great d-man, less work for them

Also he does not have golden mitts but I think his skills with the puck are greatly exaggareted in a negative way...

Horny I don't want even to waste my time on that.