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2017-18 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

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data is from 2016 and prior.

How much is the “best fourth line in hockey” worth?
 
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damacles1156 said:
Ok, so you just proved my point about 4th line players typically not being skilled enough to score like certain people think they should.

Seriously folks, the league average for fourth line players is right about what Clifford scores yearly.

Ironically For his career Kyle Clifford is just about above the league average.
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Why should we avoid better options? Say what you want but no one is making a case why you should keep better players off the line up and keep the worse players in. Our fourth line was BETTER before Clifford and AA came back. I don't care what the league average is, we had a really great fourth line before them this year, made us go on a crazy winning streak as well. We weren't losing. Maybe if we reverted we could have changed some of the Ls to a W.

Herby said:
It's not only about the goals generated (although Kyle Clifford has 2 goals in his last 45 games). You just can't give up that many goals when playing so little, remember in 2014 playoffs the Clifford-Richards-Lewis line nearly cost the Kings the series with Chicago.

During this losing streak Clifford has played 34 minutes and been on the ice for 5 goals against, Mitchell has played 41 minutes and been on the ice for 7 goals against. That just can't happen guys, even if the better players play better you can't overcome a fourth line getting that dominated, especially on home ice.

And I know he is very popular here with many posters and many were excited for his return to the lineup, but it's hard to not come to the conclusion that Kyle Clifford has drastically worsened the Kings fourth line since returning in mid December.
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Exactly. They're always getting hemmed in and producing nothing. Clifford is awful and AA isn't good either. I know people have a hard on for Clifford but you can't justify him being on the roster over better players.
 
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As Herby said, it’s the goals scored against when the fourth line or bottom pairing is on the ice. They’re a mess defensively, and it’s not like they generate offense to offset those goals against.
 
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Ziggy Stardust said:
As Herby said, it’s the goals scored against when the fourth line or bottom pairing is on the ice. They’re a mess defensively, and it’s not like they generate offense to offset those goals against.
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Lets get to the real facts here its not bottom 6 we are discussing its clifford and Andreoff vs brodzinski and Jokinen that who they replaced in the lineup. Since they have been back Andreoff last 8 games (Dec 18th to jan 15) he has 2 points one goal one assist -2 Clifford dec 12 to jan 15th 1 goal - 4

Brodzinski dec 1 - jan 6 th -3 0 points going from 11 mins 20 secs on the 1st to a season low 6 mins 50 secs in his last game.

Jokinen dec 1 - Jan 4th - 3 and 2 points going from 12 mins to 8 mins a game and today waived

Facts are both clifford and andreoff also bring hit and a physical present with equal production as the two they replaced Please blame the top 6 for disappearing cause Clifford and Andreoff have been better then the two they replaced.
 
Time to disagree.Andreoff isn't blowing off the doors on numbers compared to Jokinen


Andreoff

(GP)29 (G)2 (A)2 (P)4 (+/-) -6

Jokinen

(GP)32 (G)1 (A)5 (P)6 (+/-) -3
 
deaderhead28 said:
Time to disagree.Andreoff isn't blowing off the doors on numbers compared to Jokinen



(GP)29 (G)2 (A)2 (P)4 (+/-) -6

Jokinen

(GP)32 (G)1 (A)5 (P)6 (+/-) -3
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the argument i am trying to go against is since they got back into the lineup Jokinen s production is mostly in the beginning of the year and now he is waived Obviously king's management sees more in andreoff going forward over Jokinen but what do they know about hockey :sarcasm:
 
KingCanadain1976 said:
the argument i am trying to go against is since they got back into the lineup Jokinen s production is mostly in the beginning of the year and now he is waived Obviously king's management sees more in andreoff going forward over Jokinen but what do they know about hockey :sarcasm:
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I hope you're being sarcastic about Kings management.Kings management decided this roster and Stevens as head coach.It's currently looking as if the Kings season is sinking nearly as quick as the Titanic did.Futa was in Lombardi ears the last few years and Blake was Lombardi's second in command since the 2014 cup season.Since the 2014 season the team has failed to either reach the playoffs or make it out of the first round.
 
Herby said:
And I know he is very popular here with many posters and many were excited for his return to the lineup, but it's hard to not come to the conclusion that Kyle Clifford has drastically worsened the Kings fourth line since returning in mid December.
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He was playing really well before the injury with I believe Shore and Lewis. Not sure why things have changed so much since his return.
 
deaderhead28 said:
Well then I apologize.Used to the overly positive post no matter how the team plays.I was caught off guard thinking you were giving Kings management credit.If this is the case,please accept my apology.
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No worry deader i don't take offense to your posts. However when i use :sarcasm: its to mean i am being sarcastic Just tired of reading people blaming Clifford and Andreoff for all the kings problems At least you try to put the blame on not having a top 4 d and 3c not that i agree with that either but its not blaming someone who plays less then 10 mins most nights.
 
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A good fourth line is used for “energy.” It’s about chipping the puck in deep and blowing up the opponents D, and wanting to truly do nothing more than make a D pairing have an entire shift trying to wrestle around in the corner with them. It’s not about making plays to the front of the net, loosing the puck, and having the play go the other way. All you want from them is zone time and cycling the puck back into the corner. Typically if lines set up for this sole purpose try to do anything other than this, it’s a bad situation. As to our fourth line getting hemmed in, sometimes this happens because they have chances to chip it out but try to make creative game breaking stretch passes or middle ice passes that lead to successful counter attacks by the opponent. It can be problematic when fourth line players don’t understand their role, and like any hockey player, remember their childhood days of being an offensive juggernaut in their hometown little world in which they ruled. In today’s game more teams are getting away from assembling traditional fourth lines, and are going with third line talent so to speak. These expectations are a little different from the traditional fourth line. However, the Kings for the most part have a traditional fourth line assembled, but need to better play their role. I don’t want them thinking we want more scoring from them. I want them to think they just gave a D pairs nightmares from how hard they got hit, how much they had to work, and make the D pair a little softer for when our top 6 comes out.
 
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I should add that the biggest rule change to impact a fourth line is the no line change after icing. It used to be that if a fourth line was in any danger at all, or if the opponent managed a line change on the fly and got the top line out there against them and started to hem them in, a good team would just ice the puck and make line changes as needed. Again, a good fourth liner knew his role and did this automatically. No questions asked.
 
IMG_1033.jpg
I'm very aware of EK rumors, but I'm bored and the trade talk rumors are dead right now.Would you be ok with Maroon playing on the Kings?
 
I am not even advocating for Kyle CLifford, by all means replace the guy, show me the Kings replacement with better 4th line career stats and can handle an NHL shift...

Clifford is still on the team cause no one from the AHL can take his spot. I simply pointed out that production wise Clifford is right on the money for NHL 4th line players.
 
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Herby said:
It's not only about the goals generated (although Kyle Clifford has 2 goals in his last 45 games). You just can't give up that many goals when playing so little, remember in 2014 playoffs the Clifford-Richards-Lewis line nearly cost the Kings the series with Chicago.

During this losing streak Clifford has played 34 minutes and been on the ice for 5 goals against, Mitchell has played 41 minutes and been on the ice for 7 goals against. That just can't happen guys, even if the better players play better you can't overcome a fourth line getting that dominated, especially on home ice.

And I know he is very popular here with many posters and many were excited for his return to the lineup, but it's hard to not come to the conclusion that Kyle Clifford has drastically worsened the Kings fourth line since returning in mid December.
Click to expand...

Also during the winning streak to start the season Clifford/Shore/Lewis was like the best bottom six line in hockey for about 7-8 games. Stevens should probably try that again.
 
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KingsHockey24 said:
I feel like every time I check these boards someone's always whining about our 4th line.

It's the top six that ultimately decides whether we win or lose games.
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I don’t disagree about the top six really being the ones responsible for carrying the load for this team, but it’s also an uphill battle when you have a bottom six that is a liability, and we’re coming off yet another game where they were on the ice for multiple goals against.
 
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[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Kopitar[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD].727[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Brown[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD].636[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Gaborik[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD].636[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Toffoli[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD].523[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Doughty[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD].432[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Lewis[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD].409[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Pearson[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD].409[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Kempe[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD].395[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Mitchell[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD].294[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Muzzin[/TD]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD].293[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Martinez[/TD]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD].220[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Shore[/TD]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD].195[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Iafallo[/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD].190[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Jokinen[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD].167[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Folin[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD].138[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Forbort[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD].136[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Amadio[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD].125[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Andreoff[/TD]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD].103[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Brodzinski[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD].091[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Clifford[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD].077[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]MacDermid[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD].059[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Gravel[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD].000[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
 
That's a table with the controversial secondary assist taken out of the stats. I don't know what it all means, if anything, but interesting that Pearson is the only forward that scores with any regularity with more primary assists than goals. Gaborik also has no secondary assists. Plus I wanted to see how to make a table, and didn't know I should probably write something before doing the table.
 
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The Kings are now tied with the Wild for the final wild card spot.

From competing for the division title to being on the verge of dropping out of the top 8.

Just your typical winter doldrums. It’s become an annual Kings tradition.
 
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