2017-18 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

[deaderhead28]

The Canucks were in the previous SCF and were still the favorite. We played them without one of their best players most of the series. We creamed them, but we also won the Cup. It's not that simple. If TBL, currently murdering the entire league, were to lose to the eventual cup champ, would you say they were never a contender? This is the major flaw in that line of argument. 2012 gives you the benefit of hindsight.

Practically everyone agrees that we need a defensive upgrade, but this team is far from the smoke and mirrors it's being described as, we didn't just stumble to the 4th best goal differential in the league on accident, and that's proven over time to be a pretty accurate indication of how the standings will shake out.

I just want to get this out here that I don't have anything against you and no way am I trying to disrespect you by disagreeing with you.What has the goal differential since 2015?They still missed the playoffs.Kings defense in general has been top 10 for a while now.Again my Canucks example showed standings doesn't always mean you're going to contend for the cup,that's all.And it's a good example that points in the regular season doesn't always result in a deep playoff run with equals no serious contender in my eyes .Canucks in 2011 played a different set of teams and it was their year and lost it in game 7.Canucks played a underachieving Kings team that was better than what they looked in the standings.My argument has always been standings don't make you a serious contender.Some teams get into the playoffs and look like cup champs off their regular season record and get into the playoffs and crap the bed by a lower seed.Thats why they play several rounds of games in the playoffs to decide the winner.Most would say a 8th seed team isn't a serious contender right?But a presidents trophy winner is right?But if that team gets beat by say a 8th seed then truly the excuses are out the door and the result of the series tells the story that they were not serious contenders.Regular season points decide if you go to the playoffs and who you play from round to round not the deciding cup winners,that's played out in multiple 7 game series to decide, that's my point.Capitals are another example of a pretender team.They may be at the top of the standings as president trophy winners, but not capable of extending a series to the finals.Regular season standing was also used to claim how great the Kings chances were and Kings not only lost the division title to the Ducks but got wiped in the first round.Regular season doesn't result in playoff success.I want that to change,I would love to see Blake fill the top 4 defensemen role at the very lease so it's not another wasted season with the core.The Kings as is are a playoff team,not a serious contender in my eyes until that top 4 defensemen roster hole gets filled.

 

[deaderhead28]

Deleted

 

[BallPointHammer]

There is way more negativity on this site regarding this Kings team than is expressed by the overall hockey community. Over and over the same Kings players are ripped for being inadequate, yet these are the players who inhabit the bottom 2/3 of the roster for a legit playoff contender. C'mon, Muzzin, Martinez, Lewis then Forbort, Shore, even Clifford, are important contributers to the team.

 

[Kingspiracy]

There is way more negativity on this site regarding this Kings team than is expressed by the overall hockey community. Over and over the same Kings players are ripped for being inadequate, yet these are the players who inhabit the bottom 2/3 of the roster for a legit playoff contender. C'mon, Muzzin, Martinez, Lewis then Forbort, Shore, even Clifford, are important contributers to the team.

You've forgotten to add Andreoff, he's...

 

[KingsOfCali25]

IMO there's only one true hole in the Kings lineup...Top4 RHD (Voynov spot). The Top6 winger spot and 3rd line Center aren't an issue. It would be more of a Luxury trade than a trade for a need. At the beginning of the season I would have agreed with the Top6 winger need but the youth has stepped up and filled those spot well.

I would like to see the team spread out the scoring and defense with...

Iafallo--Kopitar--Brown
Pearson--Kempe--Toffoli
Gaborik--Carter--Brodzinski
Jokinen--Shore--Lewis

Forbort--Doughty
Muzzin--XXX
Martinez--Folin
MacDermid

But however you put the lineup; this team can compete with anyone (maybe minus Tampa).

 

[deaderhead28]

You've forgotten to add Andreoff, he's...

Andreoff is all MVP.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Kempe isnt a centermen he is a winger.Need a good depth centermen to come in and fill the depth hole.The top 6 fwd Ive always preached about is a two way guy who can fill in if a top 6 guy goes down or can play thirdline centermen.

With a cap, you don't get to just have extra guys around. Assuming Carter can play when he gets back, and Pearson wakes up, and Kopitar, Brown, and Gaborik keep scoring, Kempe is the guy who can fill in if someone goes down. If Kopitar goes down, well they're not going anywhere. If Carter can't produce, they probably won't go too far. Nobody is going to give you replacements for those guys. You can say Kempe hasn't proven anything, but neither had Pearson before the 2014 playoffs.

The biggest hole on the roster is a top 4 RHD, which is just about the toughest position to fill in the NHL. They're not available, and if they are, they're not given away. They either have to pay a steep price for one(meaning not just give away the crap prospects), or they have to adapt around the weakness in other ways.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Not to derail things, but contrary to what I’ve been reading, Tanner Pearson is most definitely “woken up.” He’s almost pacing for 50 points. Just fewer goals, partially a byproduct of a healthy Toffoli. He’s chipping in on his end.

 

[kilowatt]

What's laughable is the fact Ive broken this whole thing down in depth and explained that these roster holes. i.e. Top 6 fwd and Top 4 defensemen are with Carter on this team multiple times.But I understand that not everyone reads all the threads on here everyday and misses posts causing a misunderstand.

We’ve read what you said, we just don’t agree with it.

The forward group, especially once Carter comes back, is one of the best in the league. As for the defense, the only trade that would even remotely make sense is a Regehr-type second-pairing defenseman. Going forward, given Drew’s raise, the Kings can’t afford to sign anyone to a long-term, $4+ million contract. So the option is a either an expiring UFA or someone with one year left on their contract. So, again, who?

I’ve tried to find some guys:

Jack Johnson
Marc Methot
Dan Hamhuis
Zdeno Chara
Brooks Orpik
Francois Beauchemin

Methot and Hamhuis are both on the stars. Could we (or would we want to) trade a guy like Gravel for one of them? Would we want Johnson back? Would Chara even be available? Orpik and Beauchemin kind of suck now.

Trading Vilardi, Clague, or our first round pick would be a huge mistake.

Honestly, the player I’d most like to see on the Kings is Niklas Hjalmarsson. $4.1 million and signed through next year. I wonder what Arizona would want?

Other guys I wouldn’t hate: Bogosian, Hamonic, van Riemsdyk, maybe Niklas Kronwall (possibly the closest to Regehr that we’ll get), Lovejoy, Holden, Andrew MacDonald if Philly retained 50%, or maybe even Alex Edler. Are any of these plausible? I don’t know, but those are all of the names that are even remotely on my radar.

 

[KINGS17]

But see, this is the problem--you're basically saying "this team is no contender" but you're able to discount any evidence you want because the only way we'll know for sure is what they do in the playoffs. Then you refer to a team who finished with 95 points despite its strengths and here we are on pace to shatter that with over 100 points despite its weaknesses. To use the benefit of hindsight to uplift one team (while utilizing situations/context) and the lack of the benefit of foresight to slam this team (while ignoring stats/pace, situations/context) is--I repeat--hypocritical.

This team has a recent history of falling flat on its face and that can't be ignored either, but so did the 2012 team, yet here we are, possibly one deadline trade away from a powerhouse.

The issue here being is the 2012 organization was stacked with enough talent to make the deal. The Kings gave up a top four defenseman and a first round pick to get Carter. They don't have those assets today.

Powerhouse? Nah, I will take the 2012 version of the Kings over this version any day. The one thing which helps though is the overall parity in the NHL today, but I don't think the Kings are consistent enough to make a two month run. If a team employs a high pressure forecheck against them in the first round of the playoffs, I think the Kings are in trouble.

 

[lumbergh]

Contender or not, this year's Kings team has met my every expectation. They're more fun to watch, they're faster, and they're challenging for a playoff spot. I'm happy on all fronts.

I'm of the opinion that anything can happen in the playoffs. You don't need to have the best regular season to make a deep run. Dean Lombardi probably spent months trying to just debate in his head and with other winners what makes a winning post-season team. In the end he figured out the pieces he needed for the puzzle and took this team to the top of the mountain.

There's no good way to guarantee success in this league, but there are common features of teams that make deep runs. A good and hot goalie is an essential factor. Strength down the middle. A strong defense with at least one key defender who can control the game from the back end. The Kings have all of those ingredients.

You have to add to that opportunistic scoring and intangibles. Things that don't show up in the numbers during the regular season. Players that somehow play better during the playoffs than the regular season even though the competition is heavier and harder. These are things we fans have a hard time putting a finger on. This is why it's quite hard to tell if the Kings are contenders or not. We would all agree that Tampa Bay looks like the cream of the crop, but there's a decent chance they get bounced in round 1 or 2 because, again, anything can happen in the playoffs. See 2012.

On paper, the Kings have most of the pieces this season. I would argue that they could use a legit 3rd line center and a second pairing defenseman. If what we hear about Mike Amadio is true, that he has that Mike Richards kind of presence, the 3rd line center problem might already have a solution come March. I would swing a trade for Niklas Hjalmarsson (let's say Ladue + pick). Then you're looking at:

Iafallo/Gaborik-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Iafallo/Gaborik-Amadio-Kempe
Clifford/Jokinen-Shore-Lewis
Clifford/Jokinen/Mitchell

Muzzin-Doughty
Hjalmarsson-Martinez
Folin/Fantenberg/Gravel-Forbort
Folin/Fantenberg/Gravel

Quick
Kuemper

Then you have three scoring lines that each have a different feel, making them hard to contain and match up. Shore is a natural-borne 4th line center; when he teams up with Lewis, that's as good a 4th line as you can find. There's depth and strength up and down that lineup.

The defense has two really good pairings that you can throw on the ice in all situations. The third pairing is meh, but that's how it is on every team.

That's a deep and sexy looking lineup that has fresh faces and veteran experience. I would put that lineup on the ice against any team in the league over a seven game series.

The keys are how Amadio handles his second stint up and acquiring a really good second pairing solid defenseman.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The issue here being is the 2012 organization was stacked with enough talent to make the deal. The Kings gave up a top four defenseman and a first round pick to get Carter. They don't have those assets today.

Powerhouse? Nah, I will take the 2012 version of the Kings over this version any day. The one thing which helps though is the overall parity in the NHL today, but I don't think the Kings are consistent enough to make a two month run. If a team employs a high pressure forecheck against them in the first round of the playoffs, I think the Kings are in trouble.

Would you take the 1/9/12 version of the Kings over the 1/9/18 version of the Kings?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't think many of us expected this Kings team to be 2nd in the division and in playoff contention, though we have to keep in mind that they are now closer to being caught by a team on the outside looking in than they are from the top of the division. The Kings are six points above non-playoff teams, and seven points behind Vegas, who are actually atop the entire Western Conference. Nobody expected that either.

The Kings have also given up the least amount of goals in the league, which is impressive considering that the top half of the blueline is composed of long-time mainstays in Doughty, Muzzin, and Martinez, and the rest is composed of less experienced guys and some newcomers in Forbort, Folin, Fantenberg, MacDermid, and Gravel.

I get the frustration though in that most of the goals this team surrenders is self inflicted. Failing to clear the zone when they have the opportunity, errant passes, bad line changes, just poor choices in general, etc. The team has not looked good in their last two losses, but they're 6-3-1 in their last 10 games, with five of those six wins coming in regulation. But what's annoying is that they keep giving up two points to division rivals, particularly to teams who are chasing them and could still catch up and surpass the Kings.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being critical of the team in losses nor is it wrong to be concerned that they may tailspin, but at the same time, this team has shown that they are capable of playing some excellent hockey. It's a "prove me" season for a lot of guys who we all hoped would bounce back, and most of them have. There are a few I was hoping would be playing better, but I'd say overall, nobody can say that this season has been disappointing.

 

[deaderhead28]

With a cap, you don't get to just have extra guys around. Assuming Carter can play when he gets back, and Pearson wakes up, and Kopitar, Brown, and Gaborik keep scoring, Kempe is the guy who can fill in if someone goes down. If Kopitar goes down, well they're not going anywhere. If Carter can't produce, they probably won't go too far. Nobody is going to give you replacements for those guys. You can say Kempe hasn't proven anything, but neither had Pearson before the 2014 playoffs.

The biggest hole on the roster is a top 4 RHD, which is just about the toughest position to fill in the NHL. They're not available, and if they are, they're not given away. They either have to pay a steep price for one(meaning not just give away the crap prospects), or they have to adapt around the weakness in other ways.

For the record I didn't say Kempe didn't prove anything,I was just commenting that Kempe is better suited as a winger and has cooled off scoring as a center.Its true the cost will be high for a top 4 defensemen but can't win a cup with current defense group.So the organization either finds a way to fill that top 4 hole or kick the can down the road pretending it doesn't exist and spin this teams wheels and waste another year.Ladue isn't the answer cause if he was he be on the Kings roster.This isn't about who we can get or who's available or the cost,it's about the obvious hole and the fact it needs to be filled.I like the make up of the 2012 team as well compare to this years team.It was just so solid at defense.But I hope this teams flips the switch and proves me wrong.Past few seasons I've preached the same thing as others and this team has done nothing but proves me right.Go Kings Go.

 

[KINGS17]

Would you take the 1/9/12 version of the Kings over the 1/9/18 version of the Kings?

I don't encourage anyone to waste their time doing this, but if you go back and look at my posting history you will see the answer is yes.

In 2012 I was expecting a major move prior to the deadline because the Kings had the assets. Voynov was dominating in Manchester and had I believe had already been to the NHL for a cup of coffee. Now, I wasn't really expecting a cup until 2013, but the pieces fell into place under Sutter and in 2012 we were all rewarded.

 

[KINGS17]

Contender or not, this year's Kings team has met my every expectation. They're more fun to watch, they're faster, and they're challenging for a playoff spot. I'm happy on all fronts.

I'm of the opinion that anything can happen in the playoffs. You don't need to have the best regular season to make a deep run. Dean Lombardi probably spent months trying to just debate in his head and with other winners what makes a winning post-season team. In the end he figured out the pieces he needed for the puzzle and took this team to the top of the mountain.

There's no good way to guarantee success in this league, but there are common features of teams that make deep runs. A good and hot goalie is an essential factor. Strength down the middle. A strong defense with at least one key defender who can control the game from the back end. The Kings have all of those ingredients.

You have to add to that opportunistic scoring and intangibles. Things that don't show up in the numbers during the regular season. Players that somehow play better during the playoffs than the regular season even though the competition is heavier and harder. These are things we fans have a hard time putting a finger on. This is why it's quite hard to tell if the Kings are contenders or not. We would all agree that Tampa Bay looks like the cream of the crop, but there's a decent chance they get bounced in round 1 or 2 because, again, anything can happen in the playoffs. See 2012.

On paper, the Kings have most of the pieces this season. I would argue that they could use a legit 3rd line center and a second pairing defenseman. If what we hear about Mike Amadio is true, that he has that Mike Richards kind of presence, the 3rd line center problem might already have a solution come March. I would swing a trade for Niklas Hjalmarsson (let's say Ladue + pick). Then you're looking at:

Iafallo/Gaborik-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Iafallo/Gaborik-Amadio-Kempe
Clifford/Jokinen-Shore-Lewis
Clifford/Jokinen/Mitchell

Muzzin-Doughty
Hjalmarsson-Martinez
Folin/Fantenberg/Gravel-Forbort
Folin/Fantenberg/Gravel

Quick
Kuemper

Then you have three scoring lines that each have a different feel, making them hard to contain and match up. Shore is a natural-borne 4th line center; when he teams up with Lewis, that's as good a 4th line as you can find. There's depth and strength up and down that lineup.

The defense has two really good pairings that you can throw on the ice in all situations. The third pairing is meh, but that's how it is on every team.

That's a deep and sexy looking lineup that has fresh faces and veteran experience. I would put that lineup on the ice against any team in the league over a seven game series.

The keys are how Amadio handles his second stint up and acquiring a really good second pairing solid defenseman.

Good post, but I don't think there is any way the Kings could land Hjalmarsson for just LaDue and a pick. Blake should definitely give Amadio another look before addressing the team's needs at the deadline.

 

[tsanuri]

For the record I didn't say Kempe didn't prove anything,I was just commenting that Kempe is better suited as a winger and has cooled off scoring as a center.Its true the cost will be high for a top 4 defensemen but can't win a cup with current defense group.So the organization either finds a way to fill that top 4 hole or kick the can down the road pretending it doesn't exist and spin this teams wheels and waste another year.Ladue isn't the answer cause if he was he be on the Kings roster.This isn't about who we can get or who's available or the cost,it's about the obvious hole and the fact it needs to be filled.I like the make up of the 2012 team as well compare to this years team.It was just so solid at defense.But I hope this teams flips the switch and proves me wrong.Past few seasons I've preached the same thing as others and this team has done nothing but proves me right.Go Kings Go.

Of course he's cooled down. He was scoring at a pace that was unsustainable. But even with that he's fourth on the team in goals and seventh in scoring as a rookie learning a new position on the smaller ice.
His only downside at center is his face off percentage. But he's more than proved he's not only able to play center but he's good at it.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I don't encourage anyone to waste their time doing this, but if you go back and look at my posting history you will see the answer is yes.

In 2012 I was expecting a major move prior to the deadline because the Kings had the assets. Voynov was dominating in Manchester and had I believe had already been to the NHL for a cup of coffee. Now, I wasn't really expecting a cup until 2013, but the pieces fell into place under Sutter and in 2012 we were all rewarded.

Not only did they have assets, but they had lost Gagne to a concussion, Penner couldn't score, they were hanging around 8th after trading a lot for Richards, and Lombardi might have been feeling the heat.

1/9/12 - 93GF, 95GA, 49pts in 43 games

1/9/-18 - 126GF, 99GA, 53pts in 42 games

Of course it wasn't just the Carter deal that helped. Dwight King of all people came in and scored at better than .5 points per game. Before that season started, was anyone counting of King to do anything for anyone? No.

They were down to 4 top 6 forwards. They only got 1 more, which in theory wasn't enough to fill out a true contender, but King had a great conference final, and Penner actually scored a huge goal.

Any team that goes deep in the playoffs gets unexpected production from at least one player. If the Kings go anywhere this year, that exact same thing will happen. Maybe it's Forbort playing out of his mind. Maybe it's Iafallo matching a full season goal total in one series.

 

[KINGS17]

Penner came back to life in the playoffs as well, scoring at a .5 ppg pace. There are always unexpected heroes. King really came through in the series against Phoenix. Penner had more points than King.

 

[deaderhead28]

Penner came back to life in the playoffs as well, scoring at a .5 ppg pace. There are always unexpected heroes. King really came through in the series against Phoenix. Penner had more points than King.

Thank you for not being afraid to speak up as many I still talk to don't want to bother with the negativity and the piling on for doing so.We're all Kings fans and some of us just as long as others.We all want the same team to succeed.Let's continue to have a productive discussion even if you don't agree with it.Go Kings Go.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Penner came back to life in the playoffs as well, scoring at a .5 ppg pace. There are always unexpected heroes. King really came through in the series against Phoenix. Penner had more points than King.

Thank you for not being afraid to speak up as many I still talk to don't want to bother with the negativity for doing so.

But I mean, that's something we all agree on to a certain extent, is it not? The unexpected heroes? King setting the Kings WCF goal-scoring record. Nolan, Fraser scoring key goals. Penner in 2014 scoring a buzzer beater slapshot...wtf? Willie Mitchell 2OT primary assist on a Dustin Brown (proclaimed dead at that point) game winning deflection. That's part of the magic. We have the offensive talent in our depth to do that. Why not Iafallo? Why not Jokinen? Why not Lewis, Shore? Why not Kempe? I'd say we have more raw offensive talent on paper than those teams, the big difference is in the intangibles--Richards, Stoll, Regehr, Mitchell. That's nigh irreplaceable and I said it at the time. Doesn't matter what holes we plug, it takes magic--one thing we have to give DL credit for is actively chasing that sort of player. We beat plenty of 'better' teams. This might be a 'better' team on paper (I know, I know, some will disagree) at forward, but I'd take those other squads all day for the intangibles.

 

[deaderhead28]

I love my Kings since 1982,and want them to win the cup every year.I pay a extra 40 dollars a month for a additional direct TV package to just get one channel,the FSW to watch the Kings in Az and now will have to again to watch them in Colo.

 

[KingsFan7824]

But I mean, that's something we all agree on to a certain extent, is it not? The unexpected heroes? King setting the Kings WCF goal-scoring record. Nolan, Fraser scoring key goals. Penner in 2014 scoring a buzzer beater slapshot...wtf? Willie Mitchell 2OT primary assist on a Dustin Brown (proclaimed dead at that point) game winning deflection. That's part of the magic. We have the offensive talent in our depth to do that. Why not Iafallo? Why not Jokinen? Why not Lewis, Shore? Why not Kempe? I'd say we have more raw offensive talent on paper than those teams, the big difference is in the intangibles--Richards, Stoll, Regehr, Mitchell. That's nigh irreplaceable and I said it at the time. Doesn't matter what holes we plug, it takes magic--one thing we have to give DL credit for is actively chasing that sort of player. We beat plenty of 'better' teams. This might be a 'better' team on paper (I know, I know, some will disagree) at forward, but I'd take those other squads all day for the intangibles.

There will, most likely, never be a more intangible win than in 2014. They kept putting themselves in holes, but they kept getting out. At the same time, since 92-93, of the teams that played at least 20 playoff games, that Kings team scored the 6th most goals per game, out of 52 teams. 2nd most total goals, only behind the 92-93 Kings. They did also have some talent all clicking at the right time.

 

[KINGS17]

But I mean, that's something we all agree on to a certain extent, is it not? The unexpected heroes? King setting the Kings WCF goal-scoring record. Nolan, Fraser scoring key goals. Penner in 2014 scoring a buzzer beater slapshot...wtf? Willie Mitchell 2OT primary assist on a Dustin Brown (proclaimed dead at that point) game winning deflection. That's part of the magic. We have the offensive talent in our depth to do that. Why not Iafallo? Why not Jokinen? Why not Lewis, Shore? Why not Kempe? I'd say we have more raw offensive talent on paper than those teams, the big difference is in the intangibles--Richards, Stoll, Regehr, Mitchell. That's nigh irreplaceable and I said it at the time. Doesn't matter what holes we plug, it takes magic--one thing we have to give DL credit for is actively chasing that sort of player. We beat plenty of 'better' teams. This might be a 'better' team on paper (I know, I know, some will disagree) at forward, but I'd take those other squads all day for the intangibles.

Yes, I agree this squad has more raw offensive talent, so sure why not any of the guys you mentioned. I think the biggest weakness this team has is its inability to clear its own zone. The biggest need is for a real 3/4 defenseman, and I'm not sure they have the assets to get one.

 

[raswilliam]

The main trade boards are hilarious. Every single trade proposal involving the Kings wants Villardi plus a 1st, followed by 20 posts trying to downplay Villardi's value. Every fan overvalues their teams players, but good lord, Leaf and Hab fans take the cake.