2017-18 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

[tsanuri]

This team has lacked a credible thirdline center and top 4 defensemen depth the last few seasons and many of us have pointed this out and were attacked.Its funny now some are finally willing to admit the top 4 defensemen hole after a few seasons.

If you don't think Kempe is that with how he has preformed at the 2nd line center I don't know what to say.
Like I said going into the year I would have fully agreed we had that hole but a rookie has stepped up and filled it. And moving him down to the 3rd line gives him an easier match-up. So in theory he should do better. But you said we have a top 6 hole the 3rd line is a top 9 hole. Yes it's semantics, but a rather big distinction. And even there as was just pointed out Carter fixes that as well. But it is very hard to argue against our 3rd line when one of the wings has 10 goals in half a season. When all of last season we only had 8 players with 10 or more goals. And this year even with Carter down it's very possible to have 7 over 20 goals. And we have 6 on pace for more than 20. The 7th would be Pearson stepping it up a little to get it to 20.

 

[deaderhead28]

If you don't think Kempe is that with how he has preformed at the 2nd line center I don't know what to say.
Like I said going into the year I would have fully agreed we had that hole but a rookie has stepped up and filled it. And moving him down to the 3rd line gives him an easier match-up. So in theory he should do better. But you said we have a top 6 hole the 3rd line is a top 9 hole. Yes it's semantics, but a rather big distinction. And even there as was just pointed out Carter fixes that as well. But it is very hard to argue against our 3rd line when one of the wings has 10 goals in half a season. When all of last season we only had 8 players with 10 or more goals. And this year even with Carter down it's very possible to have 7 over 20 goals. And we have 6 on pace for more than 20. The 7th would be Pearson stepping it up a little to get it to 20.

Kempe isnt a centermen he is a winger.Need a good depth centermen to come in and fill the depth hole.The top 6 fwd Ive always preached about is a two way guy who can fill in if a top 6 guy goes down or can play thirdline centermen.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kempe isnt a centermen he is a winger.Need a good depth centermen to come in and fill the depth hole.The top 6 fwd Ive always preached about is a two way guy who can fill in if a top 6 guy goes down or can play thirdline centermen.

We have that guy several times over. He's named Trevor Lewis, Nick Shore, or Alex Iafallo.

I thought you were going to suggest Evander Kane or something.

 

[deaderhead28]

Don't be a hypocrite. You can't use '2012' as your argument when your whole line of reasoning has been "this team is not a true contender."

Otherwise, you'd be fine with calling up LaDue and like Amadio and Mersch and calling it a day.

Wow a admin name calling.Raccoon I'm surprised that you try miss characterize my past explanations on this subject.If Ladue was the next coming of the savior the Kings management would've him up.Go read the mayors piece on why the management doesn't see the savior being Ladue.Mersch is in Ontario for a reason cause his play has dropped and Amadio isn't ready just yet but very promising indeed.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Wow a admin name calling.Raccon I'm surprised that you try miss characterize my past explanations on this subject.

you can't be serious.

Let me break it down for you.

Your entire schtick has been "this team is not a true contender."

You invoked the 2012 team, who was always just "make the playoffs and anything can happen."

 

[deaderhead28]

We have that guy several times over. He's named Trevor Lewis, Nick Shore, or Alex Iafallo.

Iafallo?Shore?Trevor Lewis?lol Two Stonhand scorers who are good at faceoffs and one winger who has one goal?You criticize me. It use these guys as your counter argument?

 

[deaderhead28]

you can't be serious.

Let me break it down for you.

Your entire schtick has been "this team is not a true contender."

You invoked the 2012 team, who was always just "make the playoffs and anything can happen."

No you use the stats and standings as a failure on proving anything.I used the 2012 team to prove your argument wrong.I use the 2012 as proof with the right depth at the position you can go far.I can use the 2012 Canucks as well to disprove your argument on standings and stats.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Iafallo?Shore?Trevor Lewis?lol Two Stonhand scorers who are good at faceoffs and one winger who has one goal?You criticize me. It use these guys as your counter argument?

You literally said you want a two way guy who can fill in in the top six in a pinch. Not only has Kempe BEEN doing that with great success, we have other guys who can as well. Do you have other suggestions around the league? We are all ears.

No you use the stats and standings as a failure on proving anything.I used the 2012 team to prove your argument wrong.I use the 2012 as proof with the right depth at the position you can go far.

You suggested that the problem last season was a 3C and a 2nd pairing d-man. You're not going to find a whole lot of support for that theory because it's factually flat out wrong. I know you don't like silly things like 'hard statistics' and 'results' but try to play along at some point.

I also hope you have a rich sense of irony because those stonehands guys you were referring to were the depth players on the 2012 team. Clifford-Fraser-Nolan and King-Stoll-Lewis. Guess that team was constructed wrong?

 

[deaderhead28]

You literally said you want a two way guy who can fill in in the top six in a pinch. Not only has Kempe BEEN doing that with great success, we have other guys who can as well. Do you have other suggestions around the league? We are all ears.



You suggested that the problem last season was a 3C and a 2nd pairing d-man. You're not going to find a whole lot of support for that theory because it's factually flat out wrong. I know you don't like silly things like 'hard statistics' and 'results' but try to play along at some point.

I also hope you have a rich sense of irony because those stonehands guys you were referring to were the depth players on the 2012 team. Clifford-Fraser-Nolan and King-Stoll-Lewis.

lmao!You keep mischaracterizing and reinventing this tired old debate we've had for a while.I give up repeating myself.Maybe K17 has more time.We'll have to agree to disagree Raccoon.Plus not going to argue with a admin and risk getting in trouble.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

lmao!You keep mischaracterizing and reinventing this tired old debate we've had for a while.I give up repeating myself.Maybe K17 has more time.We'll have to agree to disagree Raccoon.Plus not going to argue with a admin and risk getting in trouble.

Just want the record to show that you were asked--again--for examples/solutions and--again--you were not able to respond.

Please refrain from engaging in the topic if you aren't going to be able to 1. post constructively, 2. handle feedback/criticism, 3. actually engage in the debate instead of posting hit-and-run negativity. Because at this point, you're not discussing/debating, you're traveling thread to thread to be unconstructively negative about the team. If it's just a 'tired old debate' going nowhere, then rehashing it repeatedly is actually not tolerated. I'm trying to give you an out here by asking questions that will further it, but we've reached the same dead end as always.

Here are the relevant points:

2) Trolling: Do not make posts that could be interpreted as though they were made to cause an argument or provoke others.

4) Threadjacking/OT: Posts that waste space or time on the site, annoy users due to characteristics or repetition, disrupt the site functionality, or cause threads to veer off topic may be considered “threadjacking/OT”.

10) Moderator Interactions: If you disagree with the actions of a moderator, please either contact a moderator via PM or send an e-mail to [email protected] (for the latter, include your user name in the e-mail). Do not post publicly about your moderation history or the actions of moderators. Interactions with moderators are subject to all the rules listed above, including flaming.

Typically this would be handled in private but given this is none less than the third time you've called me out on the basis of being a mod over the last several days, it's probably important that everyone be acquainted with the applicable rules.

Either play along or knock it off--but stop playing along until you're called out and get wet then run screaming for a lifeguard.

 

[Cook24]

How has Kronwalls game been lately? He always seemed like a pain in the ass when the Kings would play the red wings more often. Could he be that Regehr/Mitchell/Scuderi type add? He only has 1 more year left on his deal at 4.75 mil.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How has Kronwalls game been lately? He always seemed like a pain in the ass when the Kings would play the red wings more often. Could he be that Regehr/Mitchell/Scuderi type add? He only has 1 more year left on his deal at 4.75 mil.

Kronwall's been rough. His name jumped out at me when I was looking at other d-men as he has had some of the softest deployment in the league--that's pretty damning for a guy with his game. They don't trust him to be that guy at this point. It's a good buy-low thought, but I'm not sure he has anything to offer us

 

[KINGS17]

you can't be serious.

Let me break it down for you.

Your entire schtick has been "this team is not a true contender."

You invoked the 2012 team, who was always just "make the playoffs and anything can happen."

I don't agree with this. Prior to the season, the 2011-12 team was expected to make some noise in the playoffs by every hockey pundit including those on this board. They under performed, yet still almost won the division.

The 2011-12 team was a far cry from this team, and was not a typical #8 seed.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't agree with this. Prior to the season, the 2011-12 team was expected to make some noise in the playoffs by every hockey pundit including those on this board. They under performed, yet still almost won the division.

The 2011-12 team was a far cry from this team, and was not a typical #8 seed.

The 2012 team was also a far cry from "true contender/Cup Favorite," which is the argument in question. Unless you want to debate that this place looked like a tire fire leading up to the Vancouver series when we drew them instead of the Coyotes or Sharks. We played the two teams who were the hot picks to run the table.

We were hopeful they'd take a big step forward, we weren't prepared to be disappointed with Cup-or-bust which is the expectation being debated. We merely expected growth--let's make the 2nd round or WCF and start really putting it together.

Meanwhile, the argument in question now is "can we beat Tampa Bay/Nashville/Pittsburgh in a series?" If that doesn't show a shift in expectations from the beginning of this year, I'm not sure what else to say.

 

[deaderhead28]

Just want the record to show that you were asked--again--for examples/solutions and--again--you were not able to respond.

Please refrain from engaging in the topic if you aren't going to be able to 1. post constructively, 2. handle feedback/criticism, 3. actually engage in the debate instead of posting hit-and-run negativity. Because at this point, you're not discussing/debating, you're traveling thread to thread to be unconstructively negative about the team. If it's just a 'tired old debate' going nowhere, then rehashing it repeatedly is actually not tolerated. I'm trying to give you an out here by asking questions that will further it, but we've reached the same dead end as always.

Here are the relevant points:
2) Trolling: Do not make posts that could be interpreted as though they were made to cause an argument or provoke others.
4) Threadjacking/OT: Posts that waste space or time on the site, annoy users due to characteristics or repetition, disrupt the site functionality, or cause threads to veer off topic may be considered “threadjacking/OT”.

10) Moderator Interactions: If you disagree with the actions of a moderator, please either contact a moderator via PM or send an e-mail to [email protected] (for the latter, include your user name in the e-mail). Do not post publicly about your moderation history or the actions of moderators. Interactions with moderators are subject to all the rules listed above, including flaming.

Typically this would be handled in private but given this is none less than the third time you've called me out on the basis of being a mod over the last several days, it's probably important that everyone be acquainted with the applicable rules.

Either play along or knock it off--but stop playing along until you're called out and get wet then run screaming for a lifeguard.

Ive repeated over and over examples and debated the subjects,had dialogue and discussed the same ole topics.Just cause you may not agree doesn't mean I have done any of the things you keep accusing me of or the mischaracterization. Ive responded to those who asked me for a clarification on my positions in depth arguments and used examples to show how and why this team lacks depth and experience at the two positions in question.Raccon you and I even agreed on players that could fill those holes in a quick patch using Williams and Faulk.Ive had nothing but a respectful dialogue and even apologize to posters who might taken or misunderstood my explanation.Even those I disagree with most of time get likes on their post if I agree with their post, even yours Raccon.So I do indeed come here in a constructive matter and display a matter in which I don't take anything personal.Im the one who has been attacked and rule two best fits the comments I've faced.You know this is true cause all but one was removed recently.Ive refrained from these type of exchanges and just report them like the rules are intended.I'm confident that the rules are indeed being enforced in a fair matter as always for everyone and hope the good work continues.

 

[deaderhead28]

The 2012 team was also a far cry from "true contender/Cup Favorite," which is the argument in question. Unless you want to debate that this place looked like a tire fire leading up to the Vancouver series when we drew them instead of the Coyotes or Sharks. We played the two teams who were the hot picks to run the table.

We were hopeful they'd take a big step forward, we weren't prepared to be disappointed with Cup-or-bust which is the expectation being debated. We merely expected growth--let's make the 2nd round or WCF and start really putting it together.

Meanwhile, the argument in question now is "can we beat Tampa Bay/Nashville/Pittsburgh in a series?" If that doesn't show a shift in expectations from the beginning of this year, I'm not sure what else to say.

I agree with the comment K17 posted.2012 was no true 8th seed.It was better than its results.On paper the 2012 team was expected to do better than it did, the reason why Terry Murray was fired.Some of that bad showing in the standings could be blamed on the style of play or a combination of that and Murray not able to get the team over the hump.I believe the hiring of Sutter was the most important step cause he could get the best out of every player.The second and final step was the addition of Carter and tweaking the style of play that really helped the team in 2012 team do so well in the playoffs that year.The team was finally constructed down the middle and had depth built with leadership and experience.2014 showed that same leadership helped this team thru a tough long series.

 

[HookKing]

The 2012 team succeeded because they brought in Jeff Carter, period. All that great leadership on the ice was there all season long yet the team badly underachieved despite Quick standing on his head. Then they brought in Sutter and still nothing happened. Called up Nolan and King and lost something like 5 of the next 6. Then DL rolled the dice and got Carter...BTW, that powerhouse team only clinched the last playoff spot on game 81.

 

[regulate]

Many don't realize how valuable Voynov was to the cap and roster at the time.He was huge.

Voynov was a bit of a whipping boy at times, but the all important RHD cannot be underestimated. I always thought the Voynov coming back to the Kings was nonsense talk, but Futa brought up his name as being in the mix, so you have to wonder if Voynov is reaching out, along with the Kings to the NHL, the U.S. and Canadian governments to strike a deal for him to return next season. Since his wife obviously forgave him, and his offense was a misdemeanor, it's possible, put not probable. We'll see.

 

[AlphaBravo]

You can't keep comparing this team with the prior Kings cup winning teams to determine whether we are contenders or not. It's very well possible that even if we had the exact same 2012 or 2014 roster with the exact players playing in same form as those years, we still would not be contenders. The game has evolved and other teams have improved, with new young and skilled players entering the NHL since 2012 and 2014.

Looking forward, I am frankly shocked that we are where we are in the standings with Carter out for such a long time. You can't underestimate the importance of Carter to our lineup, and missing a legit 2C, who is really a 1C for most NHL teams. Once Carter comes back, we are very deep in center, with Kopitar, Carter, Kempe, Michelle, Shore.

Outside of Muzzin, Martinez, and Doughty, however, our defense is full of No. 6 guys. I haven't been very impressed with Folin, MacD, Forbort, Fantenburg, or Gravel. I think if we at least got one solid defenseman to play on the second pair, the remaining guys could perform well rotating in the bottom pair. My hope is that LaDue is that guy, and I hope he gets a chance after the bye week to show what he has got. Not saying he will absolutely solve that issue, but I saw enough of LaDue last year to know that there is a higher than 50% chance he can stabilize the second pair even though he blew it in training camp.

 

[deaderhead28]

You can't keep comparing this team with the prior Kings cup winning teams to determine whether we are contenders or not. It's very well possible that even if we had the exact same 2012 or 2014 roster with the exact players playing in same form as those years, we still would not be contenders. The game has evolved and other teams have improved, with new young and skilled players entering the NHL since 2012 and 2014.

Looking forward, I am frankly shocked that we are where we are in the standings with Carter out for such a long time. You can't underestimate the importance of Carter to our lineup, and missing a legit 2C, who is really a 1C for most NHL teams. Once Carter comes back, we are very deep in center, with Kopitar, Carter, Kempe, Michelle, Shore.

Outside of Muzzin, Martinez, and Doughty, however, our defense is full of No. 6 guys. I haven't been very impressed with Folin, MacD, Forbort, Fantenburg, or Gravel. I think if we at least got one solid defenseman to play on the second pair, the remaining guys could perform well rotating in the bottom pair. My hope is that LaDue is that guy, and I hope he gets a chance after the bye week to show what he has got. Not saying he will absolutely solve that issue, but I saw enough of LaDue last year to know that there is a higher than 50% chance he can stabilize the second pair even though he blew it in training camp.

I think it was on the Mayors site that Kings management weren't having Kempe as a center long term cause he isn't a true center.They were using him as a center due to the skill they lost with Carters injury.I don't see Kempe as a long term thirdline centermen when he is better as a winger.Management also doesn't see Ladue as this capable top 4 or he be playing already.Kopitar, Carter, Kempe, Michelle,Shore as a depth isn't that great.Shore is only good at faceoffs not a goal scorer.Kempe has really cooled off and should be moved back to winger and bring in a real thirdline center who can score.Michelle is a depth 4th line centermen that hasn't been lighting it up either but he hustles and good at faceoffs as well.Bring in a thirdline centermen that can chip in 15 goals and Kempe as a winger on the thirdline with Gabs and a top 4 defenseman,this team would look really good.But the Kings could go out and get another lower tier top 6 winger as well and play him on the third line with Kempe centering it at the worse and a last ditch attempt to patch the third line.Williams or Tatar in my opinion could fill that hole.Tatar supposedly fits better with Kopitar and Gabs I've heard as well.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I agree with the comment K17 posted.2012 was no true 8th seed.It was better than its results.On paper the 2012 team was expected to do better than it did, the reason why Terry Murray was fired.Some of that bad showing in the standings could be blamed on the style of play or a combination of that and Murray not able to get the team over the hump.I believe the hiring of Sutter was the most important step cause he could get the best out of every player.The second and final step was the addition of Carter and tweaking the style of play that really helped the team in 2012 team do so well in the playoffs that year.The team was finally constructed down the middle and had depth built with leadership and experience.2014 showed that same leadership helped this team thru a tough long series.

But see, this is the problem--you're basically saying "this team is no contender" but you're able to discount any evidence you want because the only way we'll know for sure is what they do in the playoffs. Then you refer to a team who finished with 95 points despite its strengths and here we are on pace to shatter that with over 100 points despite its weaknesses. To use the benefit of hindsight to uplift one team (while utilizing situations/context) and the lack of the benefit of foresight to slam this team (while ignoring stats/pace, situations/context) is--I repeat--hypocritical.

This team has a recent history of falling flat on its face and that can't be ignored either, but so did the 2012 team, yet here we are, possibly one deadline trade away from a powerhouse.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Ive repeated over and over examples and debated the subjects,had dialogue and discussed the same ole topics.Just cause you may not agree doesn't mean I have done any of the things you keep accusing me of or the mischaracterization. Ive responded to those who asked me for a clarification on my positions in depth arguments and used examples to show how and why this team lacks depth and experience at the two positions in question.Raccon you and I even agreed on players that could fill those holes in a quick patch using Williams and Faulk.Ive had nothing but a respectful dialogue and even apologize to posters who might taken or misunderstood my explanation.Even those I disagree with most of time get likes on their post if I agree with their post, even yours Raccon.So I do indeed come here in a constructive matter and display a matter in which I don't take anything personal.Im the one who has been attacked and rule two best fits the comments I've faced.You know this is true cause all but one was removed recently.Ive refrained from these type of exchanges and just report them like the rules are intended.I'm confident that the rules are indeed being enforced in a fair matter as always for everyone and hope the good work continues.

"We" agreed on those players because after asking you for weeks I gave up and provided some examples myself.

If you run out of racetrack after being relentlessly negative with no solutions, you'd better start crafting some more racetrack out of solutions, otherwise it's not 'dialogue,' it's just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Can't even count on two hands the number of times you've quoted other posters only to say "open your eyes," you sheep are blind this team is broken etc. and the 'conversation' stops after that.

 

[deaderhead28]

But see, this is the problem--you're basically saying "this team is no contender" but you're able to discount any evidence you want because the only way we'll know for sure is what they do in the playoffs. Then you refer to a team who finished with 95 points despite its strengths and here we are on pace to shatter that with over 100 points despite its weaknesses. To use the benefit of hindsight to uplift one team (while utilizing situations/context) and the lack of the benefit of foresight to slam this team (while ignoring stats/pace, situations/context) is--I repeat--hypocritical.

This team has a recent history of falling flat on its face and that can't be ignored either, but so did the 2012 team, yet here we are, possibly one deadline trade away from a powerhouse.

I've always said this team would make the playoffs, but roster/depth isn't a serious contender unless the roster is upgraded at the deadline or in the offseason.The 2012 team was already a playoff team on paper and became a true contender with the Carter trade.Just cause this team is high in the standings doesn't make it a serious contender.Canucks the president trophy winters in 2012 is just a great example I like to use, points don't prove you're that great of a playoff team.2012 Kings team that squeaked in the playoffs as a 8th seed proved that as well,a good roster underachieving until a new coach came in and changed the environment and tweaked the system that was in place made this team a dangerous playoff team.The 2012 was no true 8th seed on paper or ability.

 

[deaderhead28]

"We" agreed on those players because after asking you for weeks I gave up and provided some examples myself.

If you run out of racetrack after being relentlessly negative with no solutions, you'd better start crafting some more racetrack out of solutions, otherwise it's not 'dialogue,' it's just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Can't even count on two hands the number of times you've quoted other posters only to say "open your eyes," you sheep are blind this team is broken etc. and the 'conversation' stops after that.

I apologize if you think I'm being negative cause as a fan I'm pointing out the obvious.I'm not a follower and a retired NCO and war vet.If I see a solution I try to share it.I may not agree what a majority may see and go along as majority aren't always right either.As a long time fan I care about this teams production on the ice.I grew up with my teams winning Championships like the 49ers,Lakers,Dodgers and now the Kings.I get attack many times cause I don't agree with opposition opinions as well.I do see a capable roster that can be a serious contender and achieving a long playoff runs if at lease a top 4 defensemen is brought in.Ive given multiple ideas to fix this roster over a period of time from bringing in a top 4 defensemen and a top 6 depth fwd to just bringing in at lease a top 4 defensemen.I also brought up just brining in a true top 6 fwd and patch the defensemen and hope the offensive side can make up the defensive side.Or bringing in a top 4 defensemen and patching the fwd for depth.It looks as if you and I are never going to totally agree on what ills this team and what to prescribe to remedy it.But I do enjoy the discussions most of the time.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I've always said this team would make the playoffs, but roster/depth isn't a serious contender unless the roster is upgraded at the deadline or in the offseason.The 2012 team was already a playoff team on paper and became a true contender with the Carter trade.Just cause this team is high in the standings doesn't make it a serious contender.Canucks the president trophy winters in 2012 is just a great example I like to use, points don't prove you're that great of a playoff team.2012 Kings team that squeaked in the playoffs as a 8th seed proved that as well,a good roster underachieving until a new coach came in and changed the environment and tweaked the system that was in place made this team a dangerous playoff team.The 2012 was no true 8th seed on paper or ability.

The Canucks were in the previous SCF and were still the favorite. We played them without one of their best players most of the series. We creamed them, but we also won the Cup. It's not that simple. If TBL, currently murdering the entire league, were to lose to the eventual cup champ, would you say they were never a contender? This is the major flaw in that line of argument. 2012 gives you the benefit of hindsight.

Practically everyone agrees that we need a defensive upgrade, but this team is far from the smoke and mirrors it's being described as, we didn't just stumble to the 4th best goal differential in the league on accident, and that's proven over time to be a pretty accurate indication of how the standings will shake out.