World Cup: 2016 World Cup — Team Canada

[JackSlater]

I don't understand the idea of "hothousing" Canadian players. USA does it... and? Canada produces far more elite players than USA, and without a huge gap in participation numbers. That method would make Canada more competitive at the U18 and probably U20 level, but that should not be the goal. Producing the most/best players possible should be the goal.

If we want to talk about what USA does with goaltenders (or Finland and Sweden even more so) that is fine. Looking at their work with defencemen (also true for Sweden) is fine, though Canada isn't doing that poorly in that area. But to adopt another model would be foolish in my opinion, unless some other country begins achieving superior results in terms of actual players produced and sustains it.

 

[dan1el]

Hall-Crosby(C)-Bergeron
Stamkos-Tavares-Mackinnon
Giroux-Getzlaf-Perry
Benn-Toews(A)-Seguin
Couture, Duchene

Keith-Weber(A)
Vlasic-Doughty
Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Giordano-Subban

Price
Bernier
Luongo

If it's in 2018 instead of 2016, sub out Bouwmeester and Giordano. Ryan Murray should take one of the spots, but hopefullya Lefty is ready to play there.

Every other good team should regress after the 2014 tournament, except us.

 

[kooma 13]

Hall-Crosby(C)-Bergeron
Stamkos-Tavares-Mackinnon
Giroux-Getzlaf-Perry
Benn-Toews(A)-Seguin
Couture, Duchene

Keith-Weber(A)
Vlasic-Doughty
Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Giordano-Subban

Price
Bernier
Luongo

If it's in 2018 instead of 2016, sub out Bouwmeester and Giordano. Ryan Murray should take one of the spots, but hopefullya Lefty is ready to play there.

Every other good team should regress after the 2014 tournament, except us.

Well thats not true. Finland will be way better than in 2014 olympics if there isnt many injuries. Actually in 2016/2018 finland can propably ice the best team in a very long time.

 

[xxxx]

Well thats not true. Finland will be way better than in 2014 olympics if there isnt many injuries. Actually in 2016/2018 finland can propably ice the best team in a very long time.

[mod] You think the team will be stronger than the one with Selanne, Koivu, Lehtinen, Numminen, Lydman, Timonen, Salo, J.Ruutu, O.Jokinen, M.Koivu, S.Kapanen, Nieminen, Peltonen at their best, in 2004 and 2006?

 

[JackSlater]

It will be interesting to see how effective some of the veterans are in four years time. The core of Canada's success in the last two Olympics has arguably been Crosby, Getzlaf and Toews at centre with Weber, Keith and Doughty on defence. Doughty will likely be better in 2018, but the others will probably regress to varying degrees by that point. There are more than enough players available to pick up any slack but it will be interesting to see who is still around. For example, most people (myself included) would have considered Eric Staal a very good bet to play in the 2014 Olympics, but his play fell off somewhat in the 2013-2014 season and that was it.

I am thinking that the only Olympians we can write off for 2018 are those who will be too old or are trending downward already. I can't see returns for Luongo, Smith, Hamhuis, Marleau, Kunitz, St. Louis or Nash. Considering those are the backup goaltenders, the 7-8th defenceman and bottom 6 (or 13th, 14th) forwards, it's not a big issue. It's highly doubtful that those seven are the only players not to return, but it gives an idea of where spots are open for Canada: back up goaltender, left defence and wing.

 

[1Gold Standard]

It will be interesting to see how effective some of the veterans are in four years time. The core of Canada's success in the last two Olympics has arguably been Crosby, Getzlaf and Toews at centre with Weber, Keith and Doughty on defence. Doughty will likely be better in 2018, but the others will probably regress to varying degrees by that point. There are more than enough players available to pick up any slack but it will be interesting to see who is still around. For example, most people (myself included) would have considered Eric Staal a very good bet to play in the 2014 Olympics, but his play fell off somewhat in the 2013-2014 season and that was it.

I am thinking that the only Olympians we can write off for 2018 are those who will be too old or are trending downward already. I can't see returns for Luongo, Smith, Hamhuis, Marleau, Kunitz, St. Louis or Nash. Considering those are the backup goaltenders, the 7-8th defenceman and bottom 6 (or 13th, 14th) forwards, it's not a big issue. It's highly doubtful that those seven are the only players not to return, but it gives an idea of where spots are open for Canada: back up goaltender, left defence and wing.

LD to replace Hamhuis
M GIORDANO World Cup for sure! doubtful for 2018 Olympics
R MURRAY World Cup not likely, BUT should be good to go for 2018.
M STAAL Who seems to be recovering nicely from a devastating injury
J MUZZIN Really elevating his game this year and in the POs.
E GELINAS

Wingers. T HALL (LW) T SEGUIN (RW) R JOHANSAN (RW) L COUTOUR (LW) R O'REILLY (LW) and the list goes on and on...

I think we are in great shape for the the World Cup and 2018.

 

[xxxx]

It will be interesting to see how effective some of the veterans are in four years time. The core of Canada's success in the last two Olympics has arguably been Crosby, Getzlaf and Toews at centre with Weber, Keith and Doughty on defence. Doughty will likely be better in 2018, but the others will probably regress to varying degrees by that point. There are more than enough players available to pick up any slack but it will be interesting to see who is still around. For example, most people (myself included) would have considered Eric Staal a very good bet to play in the 2014 Olympics, but his play fell off somewhat in the 2013-2014 season and that was it.

I am thinking that the only Olympians we can write off for 2018 are those who will be too old or are trending downward already. I can't see returns for Luongo, Smith, Hamhuis, Marleau, Kunitz, St. Louis or Nash. Considering those are the backup goaltenders, the 7-8th defenceman and bottom 6 (or 13th, 14th) forwards, it's not a big issue. It's highly doubtful that those seven are the only players not to return, but it gives an idea of where spots are open for Canada: back up goaltender, left defence and wing.

This could be my 2016 World Cup roster:

Duchene - Crosby - Stamkos
Tavares - Giroux - Neal
Toews - Getzlaf - Perry
Benn - Seguin - MacKinnon
Bergeron

Keith - Weber
Pietrangelo - Doughty
Phaneuf - Subban
Seabrook / M.Staal


Price, Crawford, Fleury

Well, that's rather more offensive, than well balanced roster, but I would try it.

Bolded the players I think they will be there for sure. There might be more defensive players instead of the likes of Neal and Seguin and MacKinnon though. Maybe Carter, Sharp, Couture, O'Reilly, M.Richards, Nash or Burns. I'm wondering if Taylor Hall will be good enough to make the team.

On defence, I do think that Phaneuf could be a good option. Or Marc Staal, if he gets a bit better. Giordano, Hamonic, Letang, Hamhuis, Vlasic and Bouwmeester may somehow play their names into the team.

 

[JackSlater]

LD to replace Hamhuis
M GIORDANO World Cup for sure! doubtful for 2018 Olympics
R MURRAY World Cup not likely, BUT should be good to go for 2018.
M STAAL Who seems to be recovering nicely from a devastating injury
J MUZZIN Really elevating his game this year and in the POs.
E GELINAS

Wingers. T HALL (LW) T SEGUIN (RW) R JOHANSAN (RW) L COUTOUR (LW) R O'REILLY (LW) and the list goes on and on...

I think we are in great shape for the the World Cup and 2018.

I agree on the first three defencemen named, and Murray definitely seems like a long term option in that spot. No to Muzzin though... Canada has better players to ride Doughty's coattails at the Olympics. I would still consider Alzner as well.

One positive for Canada is that a lot of the young players have at least some experience at wing (I don't know about Johansen though). In addition to those guys, Stamkos can play wing, MacKinnon can play wing, Giroux can play wing, Neal is a winger, Eberle is a winger, Skinner is a winger, Kane (I'm not ready to write him off) is a winger and so on.

This could be my 2016 World Cup roster:

Duchene - Crosby - Stamkos
Tavares - Giroux - Neal
Toews - Getzlaf - Perry
Benn - Seguin - MacKinnon
Bergeron

Keith - Weber
Pietrangelo - Doughty
Phaneuf - Subban
Seabrook / M.Staal


Price, Crawford, Fleury

Well, that's rather more offensive, than well balanced roster, but I would try it.

Bolded the players I think they will be there for sure. There might be more defensive players instead of the likes of Neal and Seguin and MacKinnon though. Maybe Carter, Sharp, Couture, O'Reilly, M.Richards, Nash or Burns. I'm wondering if Taylor Hall will be good enough to make the team.

On defence, I do think that Phaneuf could be a good option. Or Marc Staal, if he gets a bit better. Giordano, Hamonic, Letang, Hamhuis, Vlasic and Bouwmeester may somehow play their names into the team.

How can Vlasic be behind Phaneuf? He's a better player on small ice, and much better on bigger ice. I would be surprised to see Vlasic not picked for any Canadian team over the next four years.

 

[xxxx]

How can Vlasic be behind Phaneuf? He's a better player on small ice, and much better on bigger ice. I would be surprised to see Vlasic not picked for any Canadian team over the next four years.

I like his physical play but Vlasic would be maybe the better option, you're right.

 

[86Habs]

It will be interesting to see how effective some of the veterans are in four years time. The core of Canada's success in the last two Olympics has arguably been Crosby, Getzlaf and Toews at centre with Weber, Keith and Doughty on defence. Doughty will likely be better in 2018, but the others will probably regress to varying degrees by that point. There are more than enough players available to pick up any slack but it will be interesting to see who is still around. For example, most people (myself included) would have considered Eric Staal a very good bet to play in the 2014 Olympics, but his play fell off somewhat in the 2013-2014 season and that was it.

I am thinking that the only Olympians we can write off for 2018 are those who will be too old or are trending downward already. I can't see returns for Luongo, Smith, Hamhuis, Marleau, Kunitz, St. Louis or Nash. Considering those are the backup goaltenders, the 7-8th defenceman and bottom 6 (or 13th, 14th) forwards, it's not a big issue. It's highly doubtful that those seven are the only players not to return, but it gives an idea of where spots are open for Canada: back up goaltender, left defence and wing.

You can add Sharp to that list as well - he'll be 36 in 2018, and highly likely to be on the downside of his career by then. Again, he finished up the OGs as our 13th forward, so we'll survive that loss. And Bouwmeester is a guy who some might think would be trending downwards by then, but then you realize he's currently only 30 years old and perhaps playing the best hockey of his career. It seems like he's been around forever.

I'll say it before and I'll say it again - the roster for 2016 / 2018 will depend significantly on the coaching staff, the style of play they choose to employ on the ice surface in effect, and personal preferences like proper handedness, having natural wingers throughout the lineup, and their risk tolerance from a defensive perspective.

 

[JackSlater]

You can add Sharp to that list as well - he'll be 36 in 2018, and highly likely to be on the downside of his career by then. Again, he finished up the OGs as our 13th forward, so we'll survive that loss. And Bouwmeester is a guy who some might think would be trending downwards by then, but then you realize he's currently only 30 years old and perhaps playing the best hockey of his career. It seems like he's been around forever.

You're right that I forgot Sharp, and he does fit in as another bottom six winger. Not overly difficult to replace. Bouwmeester was intentionally left off that list. I think he is unlikely for a 2018 Olympic tournament, but he is too young to write off and with his non-physical style he should age pretty well.

I'll say it before and I'll say it again - the roster for 2016 / 2018 will depend significantly on the coaching staff, the style of play they choose to employ on the ice surface in effect, and personal preferences like proper handedness, having natural wingers throughout the lineup, and their risk tolerance from a defensive perspective.

I agree 100%, and actually meant to say that the actual roster will be strongly impacted by the coach. My expectation is that Babcock will walk away as he has nothing left to prove after 2014. It would not be shocking to see a coach like Babcock leave off players like Hall or Seguin (for example) going forward if the team is focused on defensive play from the wings as in 2014. If Canada goes for speed and offence, those two are basically locks. Outside of a few obvious players (Crosby, Stamkos, Toews, Tavares) there are many ways that Canada's forward group can be constructed.

On defence, Canada can probably pencil in Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo, Subban and Keith regardless of who the coach is. The remaining pieces will just be compliments. Price is obviously the goaltender for the next four years at least, so no issue there.

 

[1Gold Standard]

I agree on the first three defencemen named, and Murray definitely seems like a long term option in that spot. No to Muzzin though... Canada has better players to ride Doughty's coattails at the Olympics. I would still consider Alzner as well.

One positive for Canada is that a lot of the young players have at least some experience at wing (I don't know about Johansen though). In addition to those guys, Stamkos can play wing, MacKinnon can play wing, Giroux can play wing, Neal is a winger, Eberle is a winger, Skinner is a winger, Kane (I'm not ready to write him off) is a winger and so on.



How can Vlasic be behind Phaneuf? He's a better player on small ice, and much better on bigger ice. I would be surprised to see Vlasic not picked for any Canadian team over the next four years.

Nah, I'll gladly take Muzzin at this point over Alzner, even with the Doughty effect. What I've seen from Muzzin on the NHL level in his two years exceeds anything that Alzner has ever shown. Alzner has draft position and in my estimation has largely underwhelmed since turning pro.

 

[landy92mack29]

Just cause where Canadian

Hall - Crosby - Tavares
Mackkinon - Nugent-Hopkins - Stamkos
Duchene - Seguin - Drouin
Couture - McDavid - Eberle
Reinhart Toews

Subban - Pietrangelo
Keith - Doughty
Ekblad - Weber
Schultz Nurse

Price
Bernier
Subban

drouin-crosby-stamkos
hall-Duchene-mackinnon
tavares-getzlaf-perry
benn-toews-seguin
rnh-mcdavid

doughty-weber
g.reinhart-ekblad
subban-pietrangelo
murray-keith

price
bernier
fucale

 

[JackSlater]

Nah, I'll gladly take Muzzin at this point over Alzner, even with the Doughty effect. What I've seen from Muzzin on the NHL level in his two years exceeds anything that Alzner has ever shown. Alzner has draft position and in my estimation has largely underwhelmed since turning pro.

Regardless of your opinion on Alzner, Muzzin is not even close to that level. It would be worse than Kunitz in 2014, barring a lot of development over the next few years from Muzzin. Doughty babysits Muzzin.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Regardless of your opinion on Alzner, Muzzin is not even close to that level. It would be worse than Kunitz in 2014, barring a lot of development over the next few years from Muzzin. Doughty babysits Muzzin.

You can have him on your team....if it came down to a choice between Alzner and myself for 1 game, I'd lace em up one more time.. but I'm a right handed shot. I don't think he offers anything as a defensive defenseman and even less on the offensive side.

 

[JackSlater]

You can have him on your team....if it came down to a choice between Alzner and myself for 1 game, I'd lace em up one more time.. but I'm a right handed shot. I don't think he offers anything as a defensive defenseman and even less on the offensive side.

Muzzin is the point of the post. Muzzin is no good. Regardless of any opinion on Alzner, Muzzin is not close the the Olympic level.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Muzzin is the point of the post. Muzzin is no good. Regardless of any opinion on Alzner, Muzzin is not close the the Olympic level.

regardless...I'll go a long way down my depth chart for LH D-men before I'm calling Alzner's name. The point is, Alzner is no good. not close to Olympic level...and I don't give much credence to him on the 55 man summer ball hockey tournament.

 

[86Habs]

regardless...I'll go a long way down my depth chart for LH D-men before I'm calling Alzner's name. The point is, Alzner is no good. not close to Olympic level...and I don't give much credence to him on the 55 man summer ball hockey tournament.

You shouldn't need to go too far down the depth chart to find a good LHed defenceman by the time 2016 rolls around, if there is a World Cup (and hopefully there is). Giordano would be a great solution, to start. Murray should be at worst a very strong #2 by then, and is someone we could sit in the press box as a #8 D for a tournament to get some valuable international experience. Hell, Hamhuis could still be servicable by then. And with Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, and Subban on the right side, there is always the potential for one of those guys to move over to the left side.

I'm of the opinion we won't need to do down the Alzner/Muzzin route.

 

[1Gold Standard]

You shouldn't need to go too far down the depth chart to find a good LHed defenceman by the time 2016 rolls around, if there is a World Cup (and hopefully there is). Giordano would be a great solution, to start. Murray should be at worst a very strong #2 by then, and is someone we could sit in the press box as a #8 D for a tournament to get some valuable international experience. Hell, Hamhuis could still be servicable by then. And with Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, and Subban on the right side, there is always the potential for one of those guys to move over to the left side.

I'm of the opinion we won't need to do down the Alzner/Muzzin route.

I do have Giordano replacing Hamhuis for the World Cup (if and when it happens) and Murray replacing Giordano by the time the Olympics roll around in 2018... plus a few other LH D on my list. Alzner's name isn't there.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Can Couturier play the wing and still be effective defensively? I think he'd be a great fit in a checking role alongside Bergeron in 2018, and even 2016. Johansen and Schwartz are two other guys I'd look at as well (although I'm not sure of Johansen's effectiveness on the wing.

 

[JackSlater]

You shouldn't need to go too far down the depth chart to find a good LHed defenceman by the time 2016 rolls around, if there is a World Cup (and hopefully there is). Giordano would be a great solution, to start. Murray should be at worst a very strong #2 by then, and is someone we could sit in the press box as a #8 D for a tournament to get some valuable international experience. Hell, Hamhuis could still be servicable by then. And with Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, and Subban on the right side, there is always the potential for one of those guys to move over to the left side.

I'm of the opinion we won't need to do down the Alzner/Muzzin route.

I do have Giordano replacing Hamhuis for the World Cup (if and when it happens) and Murray replacing Giordano by the time the Olympics roll around in 2018... plus a few other LH D on my list. Alzner's name isn't there.

No one is suggesting that Alzner or Muzzin is going to be picked or should be picked. Giordano is rightly regarded as the best additional left handed defenceman right now, and Murray is regarded by pretty much everyone as a strong potential left handed defenceman for the future. Alzner was brought up because names like Muzzin and Gelinas came up, and as of right now Alzner is a much better option. He has performed well for Canada in the past, and plays in a similar role as Vlasic. Canada's right handed defencemen tend to be more adventurous, so defensively steady left handed defencemen (particularly with solid skating ability and good size) are valuable. I don't think his inclusion at the summer evaluation camp was a mistake, and it should be interesting to see if he evolves under Trotz. I would not be remotely surprised to see Alzner develop into another Vlasic. Keep in mind, four years ago very few people would have considered Vlasic or Giordano for spots on a Canadian Olympic roster. Once again for the sake of clarity, this is not a suggestion that Alzner will or should be picked. Considered.

Can Couturier play the wing and still be effective defensively? I think he'd be a great fit in a checking role alongside Bergeron in 2018, and even 2016. Johansen and Schwartz are two other guys I'd look at as well (although I'm not sure of Johansen's effectiveness on the wing.

I like Schwartz a lot, and I wouldn't be shocked to see him replace someone like Marleau as a defensively sound natural LW. I'm not sure on Couturier at wing, I don't remember him playing it other than his rookie year possibly, but it would be an easier fit if he became a bit faster.

If Canada is looking for a defensively inclined winger, I think O'Reilly is a great fit. Should be one of the very best defensive forwards in hockey soon, and this year he demonstrated clear effectiveness on the wing.

 

[86Habs]

Can Couturier play the wing and still be effective defensively? I think he'd be a great fit in a checking role alongside Bergeron in 2018, and even 2016. Johansen and Schwartz are two other guys I'd look at as well (although I'm not sure of Johansen's effectiveness on the wing.

If we're looking for a strong defensive presence on the wing, I'd first look to Ryan O'Reilly, who now plays LW on a regular basis so won't be playing out of position. You might lose a bit defensively, as Couturier is simply a superb shutdown center, but ROR is a much better offensive player than is Couturier and is probably more versatile up and down the lineup. ROR can also play on a ready-made unit with Duchene and/or MacKinnon if the coaching staff decide to go down that route.

I'm confident that Johansen will work his way into strong consideration for any 2016/2018 team. My understand is that Johansen exclusively plays center, but personally I think his game would translate well to the wing and he's the good-skating, big-bodied, 2-way presence that Hockey Canada loves these days. I have him on my depth chart ahead of Couturier based on his offensive abilities, but if he doesn't garner some experience at wing in the next few years and starting building a case for himself, he'll be hard-pressed to make it as a centerman given our depth at that position.

And yes to Schwartz. We need as many natural wingers in the conversation as possible, especially ones with his hockey sense. He has a track record with Hockey Canada, had a really good playoff round vs. Chicago (IMO), and was mentioned as a possible substitute for the Sochi team by his GM, Doug Armstrong.

 

[1Gold Standard]

No one is suggesting that Alzner or Muzzin is going to be picked or should be picked. Giordano is rightly regarded as the best additional left handed defenceman right now, and Murray is regarded by pretty much everyone as a strong potential left handed defenceman for the future. Alzner was brought up because names like Muzzin and Gelinas came up, and as of right now Alzner is a much better option. He has performed well for Canada in the past, and plays in a similar role as Vlasic. Canada's right handed defencemen tend to be more adventurous, so defensively steady left handed defencemen (particularly with solid skating ability and good size) are valuable. I don't think his inclusion at the summer evaluation camp was a mistake, and it should be interesting to see if he evolves under Trotz. I would not be remotely surprised to see Alzner develop into another Vlasic. Keep in mind, four years ago very few people would have considered Vlasic or Giordano for spots on a Canadian Olympic roster. Once again for the sake of clarity, this is not a suggestion that Alzner will or should be picked. Considered.



I like Schwartz a lot, and I wouldn't be shocked to see him replace someone like Marleau as a defensively sound natural LW. I'm not sure on Couturier at wing, I don't remember him playing it other than his rookie year possibly, but it would be an easier fit if he became a bit faster.

If Canada is looking for a defensively inclined winger, I think O'Reilly is a great fit. Should be one of the very best defensive forwards in hockey soon, and this year he demonstrated clear effectiveness on the wing.

Not to toot my own horn, but I've always been high on pickles. I had him as a solid B team player..and hoped his game would evolve...after a promising start to his career, he wasn't heard from much...but true I never had him on the Sochi team...but when his name was floated out there as a possible Sochi player, I didn't have any objections...not like my reaction to Methot as a possible Team Canada player. I didn't like that one bit... but I warmed up to the idea. another decent B team player.

 

[JackSlater]

Not to toot my own horn, but I've always been high on pickles. I had him as a solid B team player..and hoped his game would evolve...after a promising start to his career, he wasn't heard from much...but true I never had him on the Sochi team...but when his name was floated out there as a possible Sochi player, I didn't have any objections...not like my reaction to Methot as a possible Team Canada player. I didn't like that one bit... but I warmed up to the idea. another decent B team player.

Yeah I agree on Vlasic. Someone (a San Jose fan) brought him up last spring and it made a lot of sense. I started projecting him after that and it ended up that Canada did the same, and he played very well in the end. Goes to show that it's really hard to narrow down players at this point. A lot of development can take place over the next four years.

 

[86Habs]

I agree 100%, and actually meant to say that the actual roster will be strongly impacted by the coach. My expectation is that Babcock will walk away as he has nothing left to prove after 2014. It would not be shocking to see a coach like Babcock leave off players like Hall or Seguin (for example) going forward if the team is focused on defensive play from the wings as in 2014. If Canada goes for speed and offence, those two are basically locks. Outside of a few obvious players (Crosby, Stamkos, Toews, Tavares) there are many ways that Canada's forward group can be constructed.

That's my expectation as well (unfortunately). The guy is the epitome of organization and preparedness, and getting the most out of his players. Who do you think will replace him? Off the Sochi coaching staff, I don't think Ruff or Hitchock are viable options personally, and I wouldn't be thrilled with Julien as head coach (though he'd be fine in an assistant role). Alain Vigneault is a name that comes to mind pretty quickly for me, as is Todd McLellan. McLellan lost quite a bit of his appeal, in my view, after the Sharks' collapse in the first round, but he does come from the Babcock school of coaching so you'd think there would be a smooth transition in terms of style and systems.

What about Darryl Sutter? He'll be 58 years old in 2016, and Hockey Canada may want to establish some continuity in the coaching staff so age may be a limiting factor with him. No question he has the Kings firing on all cylinders right now though, eh. Other than that, the only names that come to mind are Trotz, Tippett, and Quenneville. The first two probably lack the big game (i.e., Cup finals) experience at this point in their careers to head up a best-on-best Canadian team, and personally I haven't been a fan of Quenneville's coaching in these particular playoffs. He'd certainly be a viable candidate too, though.