why didn't the US send a better team? no one else has asked this or been able to figure it out. genius.
can u wait until Tor drafts Matthews before u start with the ball washing
WC: 2016 Team USA
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why didn't the US send a better team? no one else has asked this or been able to figure it out. genius.
can u wait until Tor drafts Matthews before u start with the ball washing
Larkin and Foligno are both very good players. He's prob the 3rd best on the team though.
Yea they have been good too. It is after all only exhibition. Aho looks to be the best on the ice
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
Third period was definitely Team USA's best period. Much better job of suppressing shots and driving play. Larkin, Foligno, Matthews, Schroeder were their best forwards and Compher really came on strong. He's been the best of the CCM line today. The team has missed on some passes but some of that is just chemistry. Should improve the more they play together.
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
Compher really did come on strong at the end. Liked his game a lot. Motte was a bit more active from the 2nd period on. Also thought the goaltending was solid as well.
With 3 open roster spots for this team, it will be interesting to see who they get to fill the team by the end of group play and quarterfinals. A couple legit forwards would really strengthen this team. Ideally, scratching Wood and dropping Hinostroza to the 4th line would be ideal. Hopefully they get lucky and someone says yes between now and Friday so they have 13 forwards ready for Friday. This group ain't bad though. They're extremely fast and that's gonna lead to a lot of scoring chances in transition. If Condon plays like he did today, goaltending looks a lot better. Hanifin and Skjei were impressive defensively.
A lot to like today. Just need to see some more out of guys like Connor and improve on the PK.
A lot to like today. Just need to see some more out of guys like Connor and improve on the PK.
Frank Vatrano added to the team. I really like this addition. He had 36 goals in 36 games for Providence in the AHL and scored 8 goals in 39 games for the Bruins. Putting him with Matthews makes sense. Vatrano is a pure goal scorer and will get plenty of opportunities with Matthews, if they decide to put them together
Planet Hockey
Registered User
- Apr 22, 2016
- 57
- 17
This kind of sums up the North American attitude toward the WC, in all its uppity short-sighted bluster.
There are currently 8 NHL teams left playing. By midway through the WC there will be 4. That's 4 club teams out of 30-ish NHL franchises, the KHL and the top European leagues. 4 club teams.
How do you get from that to "half" of the world's best players being at their day jobs? Let's face it, a lot of US players choose not to go b/c they aren't motivated to go. It isn't as if "half" of them are still playing club hockey.
The WC is a yearly tournament so of course rosters will fluctuate and not tend to be as strong/deep as Olympic teams. That does not mean it's a 'Grade B' tournament.
The WC tournament is great, with a rich history. The rosters are pretty strong, especially compared to average pro teams on either side of the pond. American fans tend to suffer from a certain myopia where the greatly hyped players are "awesome" and everybody else "sucks." Trying playing hockey on your backyard pond against any one of the "B" players in this year's WC, and 100 goals-against later you'll grade E for Educated.
I would stack last year's Canadian or Russia WC teams against a lot of Olympic-medal teams, and certainly either could have whipped a lot of NHL teams on the big rink.
If the only worthwhile ice hockey game involves the 15 best players from one country vs. the 15 best players from another county, WHAT THE @#!$ are you paying attention to the NHL for? Even the best NHL teams do not have nearly the skill level of some legendary All-Star Olympic roster from Canada or the United States, and those are the only teams you consider "Grade A" right?
So if Canada's gold medal WC team from 2015 is "Grade B" then your local NHL team is grade C or D, yet nobody brings up that club teams are not playing "best on best." Instead, we recognize that there are more than 30 great hockey players alive today and any major professional team, especially an NHL team is very talented. Just like even the Division 1 WC teams are super talented, compared to most college teams or whoever. It's a continuum.
It's a chicken-or-egg syndrome with Team USA, the media here ignores the WC just as the national program uses it for prospect evaluation. American hockey writers are extremely rude and unprofessional in their annual hee-haw about how meaningless the tournament is. Because, you know, it's not like any of the other peoples of the world matter.
What makes me laugh is the conceit that North American hockey is so superior, Team USA loses because they can't be bothered to try hard against those woeful KHL/Elite League professionals. It reminds me of the Southeastern Conference of American college football. If they win a bowl game, it's because they're better than you. If they lose a bowl game, it's because the SEC is "so superior" that the team wasn't motivated. "We lost to Team X because we're better than they are." Yeah.
Canada, on the other hand, televises and writes about the event and sends great veteran players year after year. They compete strongly for gold at the WC every time, I guess b/c they're not quite as "superior" as Team USA.
If the Olympics are a competition to see who the best athletes are, and the World Cup is a PR stunt for the NHL, then we can think of the annual WC as a competition of hockey heritage, motivation, management, coaching, teamwork. If a national program is motivated to do their best, they'll probably do their best at the WC. If they prefer to have a sour, cynical attitude and mostly boycott the tournament (or send a contingent of teenage draft picks) then they won't. It's ultimately very fair. The only Grade B that I see is the attitude of the American hockey establishment and fans.
Good post. Really annoying when people hate on this tournament for no reason. If it doesn't appeal to you, fine, don't watch it. But I'd say that says more about you than it does the tournament. National teams are not all-star teams. It shouldn't matter who is on your roster. The World Championships are a great event with great history, and it's an honor to play in them (or should be anyway, but primadonna NHL players don't always act nobly).
I would cheer for our boys if they were sending the Arkansas High School Selects to represent us. I think the only people that actually care who they have on their roster are people that need a nationalist dick-measuring contest to feel superior over others. It's a HOCKEY TOURNAMENT. Sit back, grab a beer, and enjoy some ****ing hockey.
I would cheer for our boys if they were sending the Arkansas High School Selects to represent us. I think the only people that actually care who they have on their roster are people that need a nationalist dick-measuring contest to feel superior over others. It's a HOCKEY TOURNAMENT. Sit back, grab a beer, and enjoy some ****ing hockey.
Problem is that our hee haw WC college teams get medals, while the KHL teams like Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Latvia get excited to make the quarterfinal but still rarely if ever do...
The reason we blame loses on effort is because they are so exceptional in the statistical track record, so outnumbered by our wins that there's hardly statistical explanation for them. Your constant appeals to the amazing Canadian roster fall on deaf ears when their current roster has what, 2 Olympians, and the others are all prospects as well? Yes, Sidney Crosby had to collect his triple crown or whatever it's called so he went last year, however...(drumroll)
One point doesn't make a trend, you seem to have a very hard time understanding this.
There's a thread around here called roster of who's not going or something to the effect. Like 20 Swedes, like 10 Finns, numerous Americans and Canadians, half a dozen Slovaks, many Russians (though some might join midway). Look at the Swedish roster, look at the Finnish roster. We use this tournament for prospect evaluation, they use this tournament to get local players some international time. At the end of the day it's a Grade B tournament because the best Americans, Canadians, AND Swedes, Finnish, Czechs, Russians, Slovaks and more do not attend and one point does not in any way effect this trend line.
He's not arguing you shouldn't enjoy it...he's arguing that Americans are prideful because we think our "college" teams which beat their KHL yearly are cocky and prideful when they lose and that this tournament is A class despite having B talent. Of course you cheer for the flag, no one ever argued against that, but he tries to put down Americans with scattered logic to make this tournament out to be something it is not, in which case I think you should stand stateside.
Oh, and you might want to rethink this statement. Yeah they aren't all-star teams inherently, but structurally they are because they're supposed to represent a conglomeration of the best the country has to offer, unless of course you think that when I visit relatives in Canada and fall around the ice with my American buddies that we are the national team as long as we wear USA jerseys and call ourselves "team USA"...
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If USA Hockey, our national federation, says you and your buddies are the national team, then you are. That's nobody's call but their's.
And no, national teams have never been and never will be all-star teams. Sure, one of the major appeals of the Olympics is that it usually has the best talent from every country, but that does not mean it is a requirement for international competition. The WC is more about depth - and that goes for every country. At the end of the day, everyone is playing by the same rules, so pissing and moaning about your country having a poor roster is pointless and petty.
If you want to watch all-star teams, wait until february for the next NHL All-Star game.
I don't feel like Planet Hockey was attacking Americans at all, just the mindset that is rampant in this country (and Canada) that this tournament isn't worth sending any better players to. My only disagreement with that is that the only people who should be faulted for our rosters are the players who decide not to show up.
If only USA Hockey had some balls, they would be barred from ever playing at the Olympics too. But then people would ***** and moan that the Olympic roster doesn't have all the best players. Boo-****ing-hoo. And this is why I agree with him that North American hockey fans are annoying.
I'd take our WC rosters over our Olympic rosters full of NHL primadonnas. I kind of hope the NHL does pull out of the Olympics just so I can fully back my country again without feeling guilty about supporting a bunch of millionaire clowns that are only there because it's the Olympics - not because they actually give any ***** about USA hockey.
...so if I pay some old men in probably Minnesota to give me a paper saying "you are sanctioned!" Would you accept us in that case?
If holding out from being with family for 3 weeks to be screen gladiators for the few people who watch this tournament is being a primadonna then sure, what stuck up primadonnas. Unfortunately there is little esteem tied to the tournament by we the people so there is no real reason for them to sacrifice for it, nothing to do with primadonnas...the youngsters just don't need to heal and likely don't have family yet are they better citizens? The value of a tournament is dependent on it's domestic following, and not many people will actively follow something that is notably not best on best. I watch the world's every year, but it says nothing about any snooty American who doesn't if someone else prefers the playoffs.
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
it is actually a pretty nice addition as Vatrano was a beast this year, his shot is amazing.
now keeping up on the big ice might be an issue so we will see how he does, hopefully he can park his butt infront of the net more often then not and work the power play to create scoring chances. he has a legit top 6 chance here as you don't score 40 plus goals this year in the AHL/NHL without skill.
PanniniClaus
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2006
- 12,639
- 5,975
There is zero incentive for USA hockey to do this. They ban these guys from the Olympics team and five people get excited, meanwhile the rest of the millions of hockey fans in the country are confused and angry once every fours years.
Planet Hockey
Registered User
- Apr 22, 2016
- 57
- 17
Trash talk 101 - pick examples that downplay the opposition. Sure, those 3 teams include a lot of KHL players. But for instance the Kazzys are built around 1 KHL team that missed the playoffs this season & has won 1 playoff series in 5 or 6 years.
Imagine if the United States could only pick from players signed to one expansion NHL team & farm system. Americans would consider the WC to be an even bigger dumb joke that doesn't matter...because the USA would lose even more often than they already do.
In contrast, Russia, Czech Republic, Sweden, Switzerland all come with a majority of European pros in 2016. If the US beats all of those teams for the next 3 or 4 WC's consistently, then THAT would prove your point. Not beating a losing KHL team playing essentially by itself with a team selected from many NHL teams.
Team USA has won a grand total of 2 (silver) Olympic medals since the Miracle On Ice team in 1980. They achieved 1 silver in 5 tries at the Canada Cup, usually finishing in the low half of the field.
The last time Team USA won the World Championship was in 1933. They have a grand total of 4 (all bronze) medals at the WC since the mid-1960s. That's 4 medals in 50 years.
There must be some other IIHF tournaments going on that I'm not aware of, in which Team USA dominates everybody. Whenever they decide to try hard, of course.
I didn't say the Canadians always win or are always a gold medal favorite. I said they always send a fine team and are a perennial contender. The 2016 contingent is young, but they have strong NHL goaltending and a lot of big mean skaters who could dominate the tournament. They play to win every year, and their media acknowledges the value of the WC.
The Americans, by contrast, have sent college kids & minor league rookies including an 18 year-old from the Swiss league. At some point, Greg Wyshinski will write his yearly bathroom-scrawl making fun of the IIHF, and saying the Americans lost to so-and-so because our superior-but-bored players were looking at Russian smut mags on the bench or whatever. That train is never late.
So please do not attempt to say these 2 countries are anywhere close in the way they approach the WC.
Who is looking at an outlier now? This is a World Cup year, an Olympic Qualification year for a bunch of teams. Of course not everyone is going to have every ballyhooed superstar from their country playing in this WC.
But what % of the "best" players in the NHL play in the Stanley Cup final? Are a majority of the absolutely most talented skaters in the league playing in that series? No? Then that is a "Grade B" event too. And the Super Bowl is grade B because it's not like most of the Pro Bowl selected players are in that. And the College Football Playoff and the Frozen Four are "C" events because a lot of those players won't even make it to the pros. Got it.
Finally, your statement that Finland, Sweden, Russia etc. just waltz some local fan favorites out for the WC & don't really care about winning just could not be more incorrect. That's the American hockey myopia in full effect right there. Just b/c the Americans blow off the WC as an excuse-fest/training exercise doesn't mean the rest of the world does too. Seriously, it's hard to find words to really even reply to that. I'm sorry you are so misinformed.
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Jerkini
Registered User
- May 31, 2003
- 8,398
- 23
Why isn't Jack Eichel on the team? Galchenyuk? Palmieri? There are so many quality, young American hockey players that are not on playoff teams that I would think are itching for the chance to play more hockey. The roster choices seem rather poor, but not like you can force anyone to play.
