Transfer: 2016 Summer Transfer Window

[Vipers31]

Its not even just about losing these three players. Its about being cheap ****ing dicks in the transfer market, not working with their managers when they ask for certain players. Forcing players upon managers that dont even want the players they buy.

The buck has to stop somewhere. If you have a better idea of who i should blame for all of this ****, then please pont them out to me.

We're the ****ing cuckolds of the football world.

They were at a somewhat severe risk of seeing the club break apart financially not too long ago - I don't think any finger-pointing is in order. They didn't repeat the mistakes of old and got carried a way over the first signs of success and got crazy with their money but got their debts paid, got their stadium back into their own hands, have become stable and viable financially, and are just beginning to reap some of the rewards of that by being able to adjust their wages to other top teams. It's a natural process. That first wave of star players was always going to leave. They actually have done pretty well to bring in guys like Auba/Mikh as the 1.5th wave, and a guy like Weigl is shaping up to be a great corner piece for the 2nd wave. With the additional money to allocate in the transfer budget, and interest in guys like Dembele, I think they're pretty fine on course. It's not perfectly pleasant, but to me as an outsider, it's pretty impressive.

 

[Power Man]

Bayern's just that much bigger than everyone else now, just like Real was when they poached Figo.

He did mention the amount of transfers


Nuance

 

[Cin]

They were at a somewhat severe risk of seeing the club break apart financially not too long ago - I don't think any finger-pointing is in order. They didn't repeat the mistakes of old and got carried a way over the first signs of success and got crazy with their money but got their debts paid, got their stadium back into their own hands, have become stable and viable financially, and are just beginning to reap some of the rewards of that by being able to adjust their wages to other top teams. It's a natural process. That first wave of star players was always going to leave. They actually have done pretty well to bring in guys like Auba/Mikh as the 1.5th wave, and a guy like Weigl is shaping up to be a great corner piece for the 2nd wave. With the additional money to allocate in the transfer budget, and interest in guys like Dembele, I think they're pretty fine on course. It's not perfectly pleasant, but to me as an outsider, it's pretty impressive.

Honestly man I respect you tremendously and i enjoy talking with you on this board. But we just arent going to see any of this with the same eyes.

 

[Vipers31]

Honestly man I respect you tremendously and i enjoy talking with you on this board. But we just arent going to see any of this with the same eyes.

Don't worry about it, at all. We're looking at that from massively different angles, so that's natural, as is not being able to shrug of having another player (seemingly) split like that over a grand scheme type look at things. But if BVB will continue to do their work like that, it'll give them sustained rewards.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I'm assuming Dortmund will get Dahoud to replace Gundogan so things could be worse, but no idea who you guys will bring in to replace Hummels

Veltman, Ayhan, and Koray Günter come to mind. Toprak is the player most heavily linked with Dortmund. Merino will probably play as CB. It doesn't seem likely that they could find one player with Hummels' complete package, but the position as a whole could improve if the players who don't fit are replaced with players who do.

Its not even just about losing these three players. Its about being cheap ****ing dicks in the transfer market, not working with their managers when they ask for certain players. Forcing players upon managers that dont even want the players they buy.

The buck has to stop somewhere. If you have a better idea of who i should blame for all of this ****, then please pont them out to me.

We're the ****ing cuckolds of the football world.

I don't blame them. They couldn't have done much differently in the case of the Bayern departures. I blame the players who leave if anything. Zorc's transfer record continues to be fantastic overall.

 

[JoemAvs]

Bayern is bad. Looks like Dortmund will lose two of their three best players this summer, but probably improve their depth players.

Well that seems to be my cue to start gloating .


Nah. I can't blame you. I don't really like this at all. I mean we need a new CB and Hummels is probably the best option (and it always made a ton of sense for both Bayern and Hummels as I stated a few weeks ago) but in the long run someone like Tah would have been better for everyone involved (aside from good ole Rudi but eh).


But it looks like I will be right about the atleast 2 out of 3 prediction and that Watzke will prevent 3 out of 3 by holding onto Mkhi. Contract extension or not.


Dembele, Süle, Merino, Tielemans and Götze and odds are that Dortmund wins the Champions League 3 years from now .


So not everything is bad. You just will have to continue what you are doing well.
Developing young players while still remaining insanely competitive in Europe (and in Germany as long as Bayern comes down to Earth a bit under Carlo in the league).

And with Tuchel, Watzke and Zorc at the helm, BVB fans really should not be worried.

You will have a great squad next season that will be able to do some serious damage in all competitions. Hummels or not.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So far it hasn't no. Martial hasn't been close to being worth 60-80M€.

When teams pay these big fees, how often are the players worth what was paid? I don't even think the team's care about whether they are worth the full value. I think they are happy with the transfer if they get a player who does the job in the squad that they were expecting.

 

[Evilo]

When teams pay these big fees, how often are the players worth what was paid? I don't even think the team's care about whether they are worth the full value. I think they are happy with the transfer if they get a player who does the job in the squad that they were expecting.

How many good players can you buy for 80M€?

Lots of. Half a good team in fact. Given United's glaring holes in their first team it was a MASSIVE mistake to overpay that much for potential.

 

[hatterson]

How many good players can you buy for 80M€?

Lots of. Half a good team in fact. Given United's glaring holes in their first team it was a MASSIVE mistake to overpay that much for potential.

Half a good team

They *did* buy players worth 10-20M like Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin and Depay

Buying a couple more names on a list like that isn't going to help them as much as Martial did this year or will in the future.

If you're saying you can spend 10-20M per player and get lots of players who are upgrades on Utds first team, I have no idea who you're looking at.

The issues they ran into this year were a couple big signings flopping (Depay really), injuries, and their manager forcing them into the most vanilla slow paced possession game possible for 75% of the season. Shaw being out for basically the whole year really hurt the back line.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Dembele, Süle, Merino, Tielemans and Götze and odds are that Dortmund wins the Champions League 3 years from now .

Let's hope this is as prescient as the last bold prediction you made on this forum.

I forgot another name on my list for Hummels replacements: Matic. One of the few players who has a similar skill profile. No idea if it's plausible or not.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Would a Weigl-Tielemans CM combo be too young? I think Tielemans could be a good replacement for Gundogan, but if you are pairing him with a player who's barely any older than him, you might run into an experience problem.

Also, I don't think Dortmund can afford to bring in Sule as the Hummels replacement. I think a top echelon CB is needed to replace Hummels. Sule can replace someone like Sokratis eventually. I think Dortmund will run into big problems in competing with Bayern and in the UCL if the CB pairing is Sokratis and Sule. If Pep wants to let go of Kompany, I think he might be a good replacement for Hummels.

 

[cgf]

Sule's an excellent CB. Sign him & Tah, and BVB would have a better CB pairing next season than they did with Hummels this year.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Would a Weigl-Tielemans CM combo be too young? I think Tielemans could be a good replacement for Gundogan, but if you are pairing him with a player who's barely any older than him, you might run into an experience problem.

Also, I don't think Dortmund can afford to bring in Sule as the Hummels replacement. I think a top echelon CB is needed to replace Hummels. Sule can replace someone like Sokratis eventually. I think Dortmund will run into big problems in competing with Bayern and in the UCL if the CB pairing is Sokratis and Sule. If Pep wants to let go of Kompany, I think he might be a good replacement for Hummels.

Kompany doesn't seem like a Dortmund transfer. He's rather old and presumably on very high wages. We'll see what happens with the CBs. I think there will be a lot of turnover there. Subotic and Hummels are both highly likely to go. Ginter and Sokratis could as well.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Let's hope this is as prescient as the last bold prediction you made on this forum.

I forgot another name on my list for Hummels replacements: Matic. One of the few players who has a similar skill profile. No idea if it's plausible or not.

Matic is a DM, whereas Hummels plays CB, so I'm not quite sure how that would work... I think Matic would fit in great at BVB, but not replacing Hummels. Also, despite his GARBAGE season, I really do not want to let Nemanja Matic go this summer, probably my favourite player in the current Chelsea squad.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Sule's an excellent CB. Sign him & Tah, and BVB would have a better CB pairing next season than they did with Hummels this year.

I just think thats too young of a CB pairing, and preferably you would pair the young CB with a very good veteran, not someone like Sokratis.

 

[cgf]

Matic is a DM, whereas Hummels plays CB, so I'm not quite sure how that would work... I think Matic would fit in great at BVB, but not replacing Hummels. Also, despite his GARBAGE season, I really do not want to let Nemanja Matic go this summer, probably my favourite player in the current Chelsea squad.

That can be a blurry line between CBs and 6s in the modern game. Hell Alaba's thrived as a CB and he's a natural 8. Matic's game could well fit what the BVB CBs are asked to do.

I just think thats too young of a CB pairing, and preferably you would pair the young CB with a very good veteran, not someone like Sokratis.

Meh. That pairing may be young, but it would also be excellent under Tuchel. With Sven in the rotation as well as Merino, that should be fine with one older vet. Especially if BVB got Gotze, Dembele and Torres/Tielemans to bolster them further forward.

 

[Savant]

Let's hope this is as prescient as the last bold prediction you made on this forum.

I forgot another name on my list for Hummels replacements: Matic. One of the few players who has a similar skill profile. No idea if it's plausible or not.

Matic is rendered useless by attacking players running at him. Not sure you want that at CB

 

[Deficient Mode]

Matic is a DM, whereas Hummels plays CB, so I'm not quite sure how that would work... I think Matic would fit in great at BVB, but not replacing Hummels. Also, despite his GARBAGE season, I really do not want to let Nemanja Matic go this summer, probably my favourite player in the current Chelsea squad.

cgf told me he used to play CB. And yeah, I also agree with him that there is fluidity between DM and CB...at least for some players who are well-rounded enough. Tuchel already successfully converted Bender into a CB. He probably isn't even on Dortmund's radar; this is just me speculating.

Matic is rendered useless by attacking players running at him. Not sure you want that at CB

Running at him in what way? Like dribbling one on one? Or just getting into a footrace? Hummels' strength as a defender is his anticipation and timing (as well as his dribbling and passing), but he is inconsistent in a lot of defensive aspects. Matic brings a lot of the same strength in dribbling and penetrating passes, and has good anticipation and general defensive understanding.

 

[Savant]

cgf told me he used to play CB. And yeah, I also agree with him that there is fluidity between DM and CB...at least for some players who are well-rounded enough. Tuchel already successfully converted Bender into a CB. He probably isn't even on Dortmund's radar; this is just me speculating.



Running at him in what way? Like dribbling one on one? Or just getting into a footrace? Hummels' strength as a defender is his anticipation and timing (as well as his dribbling and passing), but he is inconsistent in a lot of defensive aspects. Matic brings a lot of the same strength in dribbling and penetrating passes, and has good anticipation and general defensive understanding.

Matic doesn't like people coming at him. He needs time on the ball. When he gets rushed his game suffers badly. Not so much from a foot race aspect but one on one definitely would be a problem.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Matic doesn't like people coming at him. He needs time on the ball. When he gets rushed his game suffers badly. Not so much from a foot race aspect but one on one definitely would be a problem.

Really? I had the opposite impression of him. Maybe I just haven't watched him enough this year.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Really? I had the opposite impression of him. Maybe I just haven't watched him enough this year.

Matic this year is not an indication of what Matic is, just as with every Chelsea player not named Willian.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Matic this year is not an indication of what Matic is, just as with every Chelsea player not named Willian.

That's what I thought. He'd be a fantastic project if Chelsea were selling him though.

 

[Evilo]

Half a good team

They *did* buy players worth 10-20M like Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin and Depay

Buying a couple more names on a list like that isn't going to help them as much as Martial did this year or will in the future.

If you're saying you can spend 10-20M per player and get lots of players who are upgrades on Utds first team, I have no idea who you're looking at.

The issues they ran into this year were a couple big signings flopping (Depay really), injuries, and their manager forcing them into the most vanilla slow paced possession game possible for 75% of the season. Shaw being out for basically the whole year really hurt the back line.

Well yes when your scouts aren't idiots, you target guys like Kanté and co.
Half a good team is mild. Leicester's entire team wasn't bought for half of 80M€.

So you have no idea who I'm looking at? Basically the whole world of football outside the big 10 teams.

 

[hatterson]

Well yes when your scouts aren't idiots, you target guys like Kanté and co.
Half a good team is mild. Leicester's entire team wasn't bought for half of 80M€.

So you have no idea who I'm looking at? Basically the whole world of football outside the big 10 teams.

Leicester is on a once in a lifetime run. Sure if that's the type of team you want to build, one that requires a crazy run to have a look at a title, then sure for for 80M. That's not United's log term goal. United should be in a spot where they're regularly competing for the PL title, and regularly making good runs in the CL.

Players who 1.) are current upgrades on United's first team (in terms of quality, not fit), and 2.) have long term potential to grow into true high end talents, will cost more than 10-20M except in very rare occasions or at only 1-2 positions

Either:
1.) Darmian, Schneiderlin, and Schweinsteiger lived up to their potential and thus what you can expect is intermittent starts and decent play, but nothing world beating.
Or 2.) They didn't (due to injuries, form, fit with the team, management, whatever), in which case United wouldn't have had a team full of massive holes if they had.

In either case, the cause of United's holes is not that they didn't have enough to spend due to purchasing Martial, it's that they made the wrong purchases and have managed them poorly.

 

[Evilo]

It's still money not well spent. Again, long term is exactly what Kanté is. Amavi as well. I wrote it here last summer. I also wrote that Schneiderlin was highly overrated on these boards (depsite my current reputation among some that I always overrated french players).

Scouts just didn't do their job, and the coaching staff neither.