2016 Summer Transfer Discussion Part V - Deadline Edition

[Live in the Now]

3 man defense has major defensive problems in England due to the players required to play defense in it being too expensive/locked up at other clubs abroad.

The 3 man defense was also conceived to beat the 4-4-2, which nobody in England plays anymore. 3-5-2 got Rodgers fired.

 

[Deficient Mode]

3 man defense has major defensive problems in England due to the players required to play defense in it being too expensive/locked up at other clubs abroad.

The 3 man defense was also conceived to beat the 4-4-2, which nobody in England plays anymore. 3-5-2 got Rodgers fired.

A lot wrong with this post. The difference between central defenders in a 4 man back line and 3 man back line is minimal. In my opinion, a lot of reputable center backs who play in a 4 man back line are better suited to a role in a 3 man back line. Mustafi and Sokratis for example.

3 man defenses have a lot more use than cracking the 4-4-2, which Leicester by the way used to great success last year and more and more teams probably will use in imitation of them. They are generally superior to 4 man defenses in possession due to their better access to the half spaces from the first line of attack, and can also be very effective against 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1. See how much del Bosque's Spain always struggled against 3 man back lines.

 

[Evilo]

Whether you said it or not, that's what this is.

Hardly. Easy reading skills it takes. I NEVER said Klopp couldn't punish Sakho or that it showed he was immature.

So yeah.

And the punishment/fine seemed to not do the trick for Sakho. Some players are a little slow with getting these messages through their head.

Ooooohhhhh, so you were in Liverpool and so you can tell us how that message didn't go through.
Because there wasn't a single incident reported since the LA one. But I'm sure you know better?

Why should he have to sell him? They made an investment in him, and he signed a contract. They're laying the options out there for him. If he wanted to prove himself, he could.

Because if they want him to prove himself, then he starts on the bench and if he is good enough and serious enough they give him some minutes. That's how adults do. Not loan him to ANOTHER TEAM which is a competitor to boot

If that ultimatum is even true, which I doubt.

Oh again, please share the inside info.

They clearly don't want to be done with him. They want him to get serious, and see that he's not getting things for granted at that level.

Riiiiiight. Players are late to trainings every day in football. They get fined, blamed, benched from time to time but NEVER LOANED TO A COMPETITOR TO PROVE THEMSELVES.
Because it's beyond ridiculous and childish.

 

[Evilo]

Tottenham is starting to get thin.

Also you all need to remember that Klopp is German and Sakho is French. It's no surprise where Evilo sits on this issue.

Cue Evilo talking about every French player he's ever criticized to show his supposed lack of bias

Which isn't hard if you have HALF a brain.
I've NEVER defended french players with character problems. NEVER.

Of course you know it, but you choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your piss poor 5 year old argument. Which is particularly funny since I'm to blame but not Vipers who defends a german coach.

Seriously, go buy yourself a brain rather than troll like a 10 year old Pokemon fan.

 

[cgf]

A lot wrong with this post. The difference between central defenders in a 4 man back line and 3 man back line is minimal. In my opinion, a lot of reputable center backs who play in a 4 man back line are better suited to a role in a 3 man back line. Mustafi and Sokratis for example.

3 man defenses have a lot more use than cracking the 4-4-2, which Leicester by the way used to great success last year and more and more teams probably will use in imitation of them. They are generally superior to 4 man defenses in possession due to their better access to the half spaces from the first line of attack, and can also be very effective against 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1. See how much del Bosque's Spain always struggled against 3 man back lines.

Bingo.

And Vertonghen in particular seems born for the left side of a back 3, playing through the halfspace on that side.

 

[Evilo]

Lass Diarra has actually phoned Monaco to ask them to sign him
OM captain FTW !

Source : Monaco president.

 

[bluesfan94]

Which isn't hard if you have HALF a brain.
I've NEVER defended french players with character problems. NEVER.

Of course you know it, but you choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your piss poor 5 year old argument. Which is particularly funny since I'm to blame but not Vipers who defends a german coach.

Seriously, go buy yourself a brain rather than troll like a 10 year old Pokemon fan.

I didn't realize it would take so little to set you off. Who do you consider people with character issues? Obviously not Sakho, even though his issues just this summer have been well documented. You also do realize that I completely called this response in the white text, right?

Yeah, I'm not calling out Vipers because he's not the only one you're arguing with. Your French bias is well documented throughout this forum, and the lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Also, am I 5 or 10? You were rather unclear

 

[Evilo]

I didn't realize it would take so little to set you off. Who do you consider people with character issues? Obviously not Sakho, even though his issues just this summer have been well documented. You also do realize that I completely called this response in the white text, right?

Yeah, I'm not calling out Vipers because he's not the only one you're arguing with. Your French bias is well documented throughout this forum, and the lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Also, am I 5 or 10? You were rather unclear

Of course you did. Because you knew it was stupid. Writing it in white doesn't change the fact you trolled and with half a brain.
My french bias is well documented by *******s trolls who can't use their brain and can't actually argue on the issue at hand.
Now you now which category you're in.
As for french players with character issues, there are so many I can't list. Nasri, Ribéry, Evra, Zidane, more recently Ounas, and so on. I've not only NOT defended them I've actually CRITICIZED them, more than anyone on this site.

I actually know Sakho through some friends. He's also done some things for my son.
I've also followed his career since he's a teenager.

This guy is a top notch guy. Funny, great character all around. It is in fact the very same image I have than the french press insiders who was baffled by Klopp's decision to send him off the US tour and questionned the coach's decision.

So all those people who ACTUALLY know him say him great of a guy he is. Just like Matuidi in fact. Same kind of guy. In a football world filled with awful characters, those two guys are prime example of how players should behave. Give their all on the pitch, be great persons in the community and never take themselves seriously.

So it was reported he was late at the airport and that more than anything Klopp wasn't happy with Sakho making a joke in his back during an interview.
He was punished, fine.
Klopp can't get over it, fine, that's his choice, HE IS THE BOSS.

Then do what you have to do : punish him, bench him until he gets it (though it seems awfully disproportionnate) or sell his ass all together.
But I can't even understand how RIDICULOUS it is to LOAN him to a competitor so that he PROVES himself or threaten to bench him.
How can he prove himself ELSEWHERE????

It's really beyond an ounce of intelligence.

 

[Evilo]

My "french bias" is also the argument used by ignorant fools (usually EPL fans) who think they know better and can't accept three years later that I was right. So they carry on saying I'm biased and never learn their lesson.

 

[cgf]

There Evilo goes again; only talking about french players...when not criticizing germans...

 

[bluesfan94]

Of course you did. Because you knew it was stupid. Writing it in white doesn't change the fact you trolled and with half a brain.
My french bias is well documented by *******s trolls who can't use their brain and can't actually argue on the issue at hand.
Now you now which category you're in.
As for french players with character issues, there are so many I can't list. Nasri, Ribéry, Evra, Zidane, more recently Ounas, and so on. I've not only NOT defended them I've actually CRITICIZED them, more than anyone on this site.

I actually know Sakho through some friends. He's also done some things for my son.
I've also followed his career since he's a teenager.

This guy is a top notch guy. Funny, great character all around. It is in fact the very same image I have than the french press insiders who was baffled by Klopp's decision to send him off the US tour and questionned the coach's decision.

So all those people who ACTUALLY know him say him great of a guy he is. Just like Matuidi in fact. Same kind of guy. In a football world filled with awful characters, those two guys are prime example of how players should behave. Give their all on the pitch, be great persons in the community and never take themselves seriously.

So it was reported he was late at the airport and that more than anything Klopp wasn't happy with Sakho making a joke in his back during an interview.
He was punished, fine.
Klopp can't get over it, fine, that's his choice, HE IS THE BOSS.

Then do what you have to do : punish him, bench him until he gets it (though it seems awfully disproportionnate) or sell his ass all together.
But I can't even understand how RIDICULOUS it is to LOAN him to a competitor so that he PROVES himself or threaten to bench him.
How can he prove himself ELSEWHERE????

It's really beyond an ounce of intelligence.

Because I knew it's your go to move if anyone ever claims you're biased. Just insulting me doesn't prove anything other than you have a rather short fuse if anyone accuses you of anything beyond infallibility.

Would you consider someone like Ben Arfa to have character issues? Would you consider character issues something along the lines of being late to a flight or missing training? Cause I know that when I played d3 soccer, showing up late to the bus meant you weren't playing the next game, at least. So did missing practice. And that's d3. We weren't getting paid - hell we weren't even on scholarship. But I guess he knows your son so that's exculpatory.

I do enjoy you pointing to French press insiders being baffled. Maybe missing practice and the like is acceptable to the French press, but it clearly isn't acceptable to Liverpool. And it's not just Klopp. The Board has to be on board with it, as well, but they aren't French either, so I know you won't defend them.

I don't think it's ridiculous to loan him to a lower level side, even if it's a competitor. Put a clause in that he can't play against Liverpool. If he's that good, he'll help that lower tier side take points from other sides. Plus, it's akin to benching him - he won't be playing for Liverpool - while not causing him to lose match fitness. But I guess logic doesn't require much intelligence.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Lass Diarra has actually phoned Monaco to ask them to sign him
OM captain FTW !

Source : Monaco president.

Why?

What's the feeling in Marseille with the American takeover? Foreign ownership seems to be less of a novelty in France these days, but I don't know. Plus, I mean OM can only go up, right?

 

[Evilo]

Because I knew it's your go to move if anyone ever claims you're biased. Just insulting me doesn't prove anything other than you have a rather short fuse if anyone accuses you of anything beyond infallibility.

It might me my "go to move" because it's true. I was accused of being biased when I said Drogba was going to run over the EPL, Same with Hazard, same with everyone who has. Yet nobody pleaded guilty years after. Still going strong with that "go to move" from ignorant fools.

As for short fuses, you'll excuse me, I hate 5 year old trolls.

Would you consider someone like Ben Arfa to have character issues? Would you consider character issues something along the lines of being late to a flight or missing training? Cause I know that when I played d3 soccer, showing up late to the bus meant you weren't playing the next game, at least. So did missing practice. And that's d3. We weren't getting paid - hell we weren't even on scholarship. But I guess he knows your son so that's exculpatory.

Ben Arfa sure had his share of character problems.
I never said he was to be excused from his lateness at practice. Why do you EVEN lie? Are you so short on arguments?
I said he could be fined, benched, punished, even sold. So what it is you can't understand????

I do enjoy you pointing to French press insiders being baffled. Maybe missing practice and the like is acceptable to the French press, but it clearly isn't acceptable to Liverpool. And it's not just Klopp. The Board has to be on board with it, as well, but they aren't French either, so I know you won't defend them.

OK, so now in France it's OK to be late. How ridiculous can you be You keep digging deeper, that's for sure.
Board can't be with him in this situation or they would have sold him. I'm pretty sure (though it's just a guess) that the loan was the only deal Klopp could struck with the board.
French press insiders know Sakho. And they know what happenned. They said it quite clearly on live TV and multiple insiders have.

I don't think it's ridiculous to loan him to a lower level side, even if it's a competitor. Put a clause in that he can't play against Liverpool. If he's that good, he'll help that lower tier side take points from other sides. Plus, it's akin to benching him - he won't be playing for Liverpool - while not causing him to lose match fitness. But I guess logic doesn't require much intelligence.

So you can PROVE YOUR COMMITMENT by commit to another side. That's your logic?

No wonder !

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Quoted from a Mirror article. Isco won't downgrade like that.

100% sure?

https://translate.google.com/transl...30/primera/1472565125_264938.html&prev=search

Isco only leave to go to Malaga or loan Tottenham

Tottenham is the last club that is pressing to acquire it. Even Pochettino has spoken to him to convince him (has used the 'candy' as a trump card Champions) and take you to the Premier. It would be on loan (Madrid did not lose eye to FIFA sanction). Isco has doubts. His intention is to stay, but is aware that it will not have minutes.

 

[Evilo]

Why?

What's the feeling in Marseilles with the American takeover? Foreign ownership seems to be less of a novelty in France these days, but I don't know. Plus, I mean OM can only go up, right?

Why? Because Diarra wants to flee the mess OM is.

Optimism I'd say for OM fans who really have suffered under MLD. But from what I've read here and elswhere they're in for a big letdown.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

100% sure?

https://translate.google.com/transl...30/primera/1472565125_264938.html&prev=search

Isco only leave to go to Malaga or loan Tottenham

Tottenham is the last club that is pressing to acquire it. Even Pochettino has spoken to him to convince him (has used the 'candy' as a trump card Champions) and take you to the Premier. It would be on loan (Madrid did not lose eye to FIFA sanction). Isco has doubts. His intention is to stay, but is aware that it will not have minutes.

Veland is saying it's BS. Isco should write a book on how to derail a career. SHould he leave, it should be for good and to better teams. Do NOT ever return to Malaga, how that's on the table is beyond me.

 

[bluesfan94]

It might me my "go to move" because it's true. I was accused of being biased when I said Drogba was going to run over the EPL, Same with Hazard, same with everyone who has. Yet nobody pleaded guilty years after. Still going strong with that "go to move" from ignorant fools.

As for short fuses, you'll excuse me, I hate 5 year old trolls.


Ben Arfa sure had his share of character problems.
I never said he was to be excused from his lateness at practice. Why do you EVEN lie? Are you so short on arguments?
I said he could be fined, benched, punished, even sold. So what it is you can't understand????



OK, so now in France it's OK to be late. How ridiculous can you be You keep digging deeper, that's for sure.
Board can't be with him in this situation or they would have sold him. I'm pretty sure (though it's just a guess) that the loan was the only deal Klopp could struck with the board.
French press insiders know Sakho. And they know what happenned. They said it quite clearly on live TV and multiple insiders have.


So you can PROVE YOUR COMMITMENT by commit to another side. That's your logic?

No wonder !

You just have this complex that everything you say about a player must be right. I think you're intelligent about football. I respect your opinions. I just think you're wrong on Sakho and this incident. The fact that you're so touchy about it, to me, shows that you have some stake in the matter, something you've confirmed with regards with his relationship to you and your son. But continue to call me a troll. I see you've finally settled on an age.


And yet you've defended Ben Arfa before.
I never said you excused it. You just seem to say that he doesn't have character issues while at the same time saying that he's late to team flights, misses practice, etc. Those are signs of character issues.

I never said that about France either. I said that perhaps (admittedly I used the word maybe the first time, but both are speculative) the French press (as in, not all of France, and the people YOU brought up) weren't concerned about his lateness. Certainly the strawman you've created keeps digging deeper, but I implore you to look on the level ground where I stand instead of jumping into that strawman's hole.

No, so you can show a sense of professionalism by being timely, hardworking, etc. If he can, then Liverpool maintain ownership of a good player. If he can't, then he's not disrupting Liverpool's locker room.

 

[Chimaera]

For what it's worth, you do seem aggressive or upset. Maybe it's just tone which is difficult on the internet while also through English.

That said, I have always maintained that I like the player. Selling him is certainly better for his career. Even though he hasn't been consistent and hasn't always done what he should do he is a player that has a ton of potential. Whether injuries or miss management it has led to this point.

However, much of this trouble seems to be caused by him not doing what Klopp and the club asked on the trip. Disagree, don't like it, fine. But he's also in one week and out six for much of the last while. There's no consistency when he can't stay fit.

I think loaning him is just as much a reaction to that and wanting to maximize the return. With the market deflated since most of the big clubs have already bought their players it makes no sense to sell him. They are better off hoping he improves and getting a better value in the next window. Odds are pretty good his Liverpool career is done but the club still has an obligation to try to get more money than what small fee he would get if they sold him.

 

[Evilo]

You just have this complex that everything you say about a player must be right. I think you're intelligent about football. I respect your opinions. I just think you're wrong on Sakho and this incident. The fact that you're so touchy about it, to me, shows that you have some stake in the matter, something you've confirmed with regards with his relationship to you and your son. But continue to call me a troll. I see you've finally settled on an age.

Oh but you can disagree. Others have.
You didn't disagree. You trolled.
I'm not touchy about this subject I'm touchy about trolls.

And yet you've defended Ben Arfa before.
I never said you excused it. You just seem to say that he doesn't have character issues while at the same time saying that he's late to team flights, misses practice, etc. Those are signs of character issues.

I defended Ben Arfa for his football skills. I don't remember defending him for his character and if I did it was because that particular incident didn't warrant criticism.

Again, you choose to focus on Ben Arfa, but not on ZZ (who's a god here in France), Nasri or guys like that.

I never said that about France either. I said that perhaps (admittedly I used the word maybe the first time, but both are speculative) the French press (as in, not all of France, and the people YOU brought up) weren't concerned about his lateness. Certainly the strawman you've created keeps digging deeper, but I implore you to look on the level ground where I stand instead of jumping into that strawman's hole.

No, the insiders that I brought up and respected guy. Writers for L'Equipe, France Football, etc.
Even guys who didn't like the player liked the person. Sorry LOVED the person.

 

[cgf]

That's cause Ben Arfa has a goofy fun-ness to him, while Nasri just wreaks of douchitude. There's no need to discuss Nasri because not even his mother likes him.

 

[Evilo]

For what it's worth, you do seem aggressive or upset. Maybe it's just tone which is difficult on the internet while also through English.

I AM upset at the trolling attempt. No doubt about it.

However, much of this trouble seems to be caused by him not doing what Klopp and the club asked on the trip. Disagree, don't like it, fine. But he's also in one week and out six for much of the last while. There's no consistency when he can't stay fit.

Again, I don't see the problem with punishing the player (already done BTW), or fined. Even benched. But loaned is utterly ridiculous.
I mean he's late for a practice and
1- he's thrown out of the preseason
2- he's either loaned to benched on a CB thin team?

You can't seriously think it's about being late at the airport. IT CLEARLY is a power struggle between the board (who don't want to lose the player) and the coach who was upset at Sakho's joke.

I think loaning him is just as much a reaction to that and wanting to maximize the return. With the market deflated since most of the big clubs of already bought their players it makes no sense to sell him. They are better off hoping he improves and getting a better value in the next window. Odds are pretty good his Liverpool career is done but the club still has an obligation to try to get more money than what small fee he would get if they sold him.

If they sell him now they'll get plenty of money. Though they could have sold him a month ago during the US tour. For even more money.
It's pretty obvious to me Klopp is throwing a tantrum and the board won't sell the player.

In any case, you can't ask a player to show commitment and "send him elsewhere or he's benched". That's just putrid management. And absolutely ludicrous.

 

[bluesfan94]

Oh but you can disagree. Others have.
You didn't disagree. You trolled.
I'm not touchy about this subject I'm touchy about trolls.



I defended Ben Arfa for his football skills. I don't remember defending him for his character and if I did it was because that particular incident didn't warrant criticism.

Again, you choose to focus on Ben Arfa, but not on ZZ (who's a god here in France), Nasri or guys like that.



No, the insiders that I brought up and respected guy. Writers for L'Equipe, France Football, etc.
Even guys who didn't like the player liked the person. Sorry LOVED the person.

I just called out you for being biased towards French players. Just like i would call out Curtinho for like Dutch players too much. Or cgf for liking Gladbach players too much. Or me for sometime's being too soft on Arsenal players (I still love you Jack Wilshere). It was meant as a lighthearted joke. You took it way too personally.

I'm sorry. You've gone from never defending French players with character issues to only doing it sometimes. Which is it? And you're right.

Just because the media likes a guy doesn't mean that he's a great locker room guy. Or the opposite.

 

[Evilo]

I just called out you for being biased towards French players. It was meant as a lighthearted joke. You took it way too personally.

I'm sorry. You've gone from never defending French players with character issues to only doing it sometimes. Which is it? And you're right.

Just because the media likes a guy doesn't mean that he's a great locker room guy. Or the opposite.

It was a stupid argument used way too often on these boards.

I don't defend players with character issues. French or not. Not sure how anything I wrote can be taken otherwise.

I didn't say the media "liked" the guy. They said he was awesome AND A GREAT CHARACTER. BOTH on the pitch and off it.

 

[Ceremony]

Calum Chambers has gone on loan to Middlesbrough

 

[bluesfan94]

It was a stupid argument used way too often on these boards.

I don't defend players with character issues. French or not. Not sure how anything I wrote can be taken otherwise.

I didn't say the media "liked" the guy. They said he was awesome AND A GREAT CHARACTER. BOTH on the pitch and off it.

And I was mocking it until you came flying in with attacks.

You just said you defended Ben Arfa for his talent even though he had character issues. My head is spinning.

you literally did say that:

Even guys who didn't like the player liked the person

I don't really care one way or another. Either way, the media's opinion carries little weight for me.