2016 NHL Draft - Part 3 - June 24th

[Grimes]

The draft is thin at the top (Laine and Matthews should be studs, but there's a steep dropoff from there), but there's a lot of depth in the first round.

Why has Puju been falling out of favor in so many peoples eyes? I thought he had just a hair less potential than Laine.

 

[hbk]

Why has Puju been falling out of favor in so many peoples eyes? I thought he had just a hair less potential than Laine.

Knee surgery

But truth is Columbus is in cap/expansion hell and view this as an opportunity to play a get out of jail free card.

 

[Mosby]

I'm thinking we go Sergachev at 7. Not sure at 20 yet. Too many variables.

 

[Jakey53]

The reasons why DM gone are very telling about the focus going forward.

Not really. We don't know all the facts on the Yandle trade or the Hamilton/ 3OA rumored deal, or even if more money was in the budget and not spent. The draft and what happens between now and the start of the season should give us a pretty good understanding of where we are headed.

 

[PhoPhan]

Jones isn't intimidating or violent, though. Tom Wilson changes a team. Lucic in his prime did the same. Jones won't ever be as big, strong, intimidating or violent as those two. They can take over games and series of games with their special quality. It's not a quality Jones has displayed and I have no reason to suspect he'll ever bring that to the table. What makes them the impact players they are is something Jones doesn't have. These are 6'3-6-4 230-240lb monsters that will hit to injure, play dirty, jump someone, fight all comers, and absolutely physically devastate their opponents. They rearrange faces.

Jones mouths off a lot. He goes hard to the net. He'll lay hits. He walks the line. But he doesn't fight or attack people, he's significantly smaller than those two, and nobody is afraid of him. Not saying he isn't an interesting prospect. I just don't see the Lucic or Wilson comparisons. More like Raffi Torres or Dustin Brown or Cal Clutterbuck.

Tom Wilson was 6'3" and 205 when he was drafted. I'm having trouble finding a draft day weight for Lucic, but I feel confident he's gotten stronger since then, too. Max Jones is 6'2 and 203 lbs, and I don't see why he couldn't put on at least 10-15 lbs. or so, which would put him right around Shane Doan's size. That's good enough for me. Torres, Brown and Clutterbuck are all 6' or less. On size, Jones is in heavyweight territory.

Point taken on viciousness, though. Maybe not the best comparisons in that regard. Having said that, I view that little bit of discretion (we're still talking about a guy who finished tied for 8th in the league in PIM) as a good thing. Lucic is who is he is because he's a loose cannon, but I think he'd be a more valuable player if he could rein it in a little. And again, Jones is far from a squeaky clean player:



Now that I think about it, Doan actually might be a better comparison, though I think Jones is toolsier offensive player and will be a better skater.

Why has Puju been falling out of favor in so many peoples eyes? I thought he had just a hair less potential than Laine.

Aside from the rumblings about Columbus (which I'm not sure I buy), I haven't seen anybody else dropping him.

 

[hbk]

Not really. We don't know all the facts on the Yandle trade or the Hamilton/ 3OA rumored deal, or even if more money was in the budget and not spent. The draft and what happens between now and the start of the season should give us a pretty good understanding of where we are headed.

If you think Tippett wants the new GM to build for the future instead of acquiring immediate help this year then I don't know what to tell you.

We don't know all the facts. That I agree. But I think we can read a few of the tea leaves and draw a conclusion.

 

[tucknroll]

^ well I'm sure glad Maloney was driving and not you. Yeesh.

I would love to hear your logic to why you're against that. If they got Kyle Connor (or even Barzal/Zacha) and Dougie Hamilton for #3 and a second (say this year), Arizona would be laughing at Boston

 

[hbk]

I would love to hear your logic to why you're against that. If they got Kyle Connor (or even Barzal/Zacha) and Dougie Hamilton for #3 and a second (say this year), Arizona would be laughing at Boston

Are you suggesting it was Hamilton plus Boston 1st rounder for 3OV and a second rounder?

 

[tucknroll]

Jones is this years Crouse in my opinion. Big, Physical, Defensive foward and can finish around the net. I think Jones has a better shot, but everything else is a cheaper version of Crouse from what i've seen of him.
I have him around #20 in the draft and i wouldn't hate drafting him there, although i'm hoping Arizona goes with a D

 

[tucknroll]

Are you suggesting it was Hamilton plus Boston 1st rounder for 3OV and a second rounder?

I feel like you should know what i've said more then anyone considering you've been the one replying, that is an out of context version of what i've been saying, but i've never suggested anything about what the real offer was, I have said that Maloney might have made the right choice because no one knows what the offers were though

but ill rewind for you

Hamilton for #3OV ..... no thank you

but if Maloney could have added a little and talked Sweeney into

Hamilton and a 1st for #3OV and a second... In a heart beat

Like you've said yourself, Sweeney wanted Hanafin to jump right into Hamilton's spot, so maybe knowing that whoever else he got with Calgary's pick instead wouldn't do that he could have been talked into trading a 1st with Hamilton for the upgrade between Hanafin-Zboril

 

[hbk]

I feel like you should know what i've said more then anyone considering you've been the one replying, that is an out of context version of what i've been saying, but i've never suggested anything about what the real offer was, I have said that Maloney might have made the right choice because no one knows what the offers were though

but ill rewind for you

Hamilton for #3OV ..... no thank you

but if Maloney could have added a little and talked Sweeney into

Hamilton and a 1st for #3OV and a second... In a heart beat

Like you've said yourself, Sweeney wanted Hanafin to jump right into Hamilton's spot, so maybe knowing that whoever else he got with Calgary's pick instead wouldn't do that he could have been talked into trading a 1st with Hamilton for the upgrade between Hanafin-Zboril

I get your point but dangerous gamble that Conner would have been there at BOS pick. Middle of our list was Merkley. Would you have made the deal if that's the name that was next on your list at BOS pick? Or do you take the future 1C knowing you already have a 1D?

 

[Jakey53]

If you think Tippett wants the new GM to build for the future instead of acquiring immediate help this year then I don't know what to tell you.

We don't know all the facts. That I agree. But I think we can read a few of the tea leaves and draw a conclusion.

I didn't say that. All coaches want to win now, but I think DT and the rest knows it takes time with a rebuild, but it was my understanding listening to the presser was they were not happy about the length of time it was taking, and there was money in the budget to spend. IF this is true, I expect a couple of signings, and I hope none of our A prospects get dealt.

 

[BUX7PHX]

To put it to bed... Throw value out the window on whether Hamilton was worth what pick or combination of picks/prospects the Coyotes put forth.

Did the management team identify where we had issues? Yes, and it should be obvious.

Our defense was not good. Again. The theory is that Hamilton would have been able to help. He would have been able to generate offense (his point totals were nice for someone who struggled early in the season. Maybe we don't have the same level of mistakes on the PP with Hamilton back covering. He is young and needs work on the defensive side, but that would be expected. And he had the qualities of the top 4 D that management coveted then and covets now.

So our management at least did some steps right.

We will see what our value interpretation is soon enough. Completely understand that interpretation as a fear to the draft value in the picks last year, and potentially this year. It is possible that we were getting far better value on Hamilton, and it is possible that we were getting far worse value. There may be some unexpected movement. Maybe the Coyotes are involved. I will give my thoughts on what transpired in a different thread at another time. Let's just save this for prospect talk and our own correct/incorrect valuations.

 

[tucknroll]

I get your point but dangerous gamble that Conner would have been there at BOS pick. Middle of our list was Merkley. Would you have made the deal if that's the name that was next on your list at BOS pick? Or do you take the future 1C knowing you already have a 1D?

Zacha, Barzal, Connor, Konecny or White would have still made that trade a steal and more then one of them would have been available so its hardly a gamble, Connor on his draft day wouldn't have been my first choice a year ago anyways (i was very big on Barzal and Zacha). Merkley may have been middle of the list but i would pray to god they had these other top prospects closer to the top of their list, and looking for their centreman would have influenced that aswell

I doubt their list went Strome then Merkley without having any of those other names in between, Merkley was for sure next on their list at 30 because he fell so far

 

[Goombha]

I didn't know Tkachuk was born in Scottsdale. That would be a very cool draft pick!

 

[hbk]

Zacha, Barzal, Connor, Konecny or White would have still made that trade a steal and more then one of them would have been available so its hardly a gamble, Connor on his draft day wouldn't have been my first choice a year ago anyways (i was very big on Barzal and Zacha). Merkley may have been middle of the list but i would pray to god they had these other top prospects closer to the top of their list, and looking for their centreman would have influenced that aswell

I doubt their list went Strome then Merkley without having any of those other names in between, Merkley was for sure next on their list at 30 because he fell so far

Merkley was ranked in teens by some organizations. AZ was set to take Fisher at CHI pick but couldn't pass on a guy they had rated so high on their list.

Hindsight is 20/20 but Zacha and Barzal were locks for top 10. You knew they weren't going to be there at BOS pick. Zacha wasn't even someone that I really liked and didn't have in my top 10. Conner I recall liking but projections of a 1st line C weren't as confident. He's had a good developmental year since but again that's hindsight.

Here's a post I made last May (and some gems posted on these threads):
"If you feel that the only way to get that big first line C is through the draft then the pick at 3 is Strome.

Talent wise I have it Hanifin/Marner/Strome on my list but the gap is narrow and if it comes down to greatest positional need as the final criteria then Strome is the guy.

Hanifin is a blue chip player but with OEL we don't have as pressing of a need and this draft does have some very highly thought of options that should be available at Chicago's pick or our 2nd rounder. You go with Hanifin only if you perceive him to be the clear BPA.

Marner I love but he will play wing in the pros and while he is an extremely dynamic player he would add to an already extremely strong depth at wing in our prospect group in players like Duclair, Domi, Perlini, Lessio, and Samuellson. Unfortunately his selection doesn't address an immediate need; however if you view him as clearly the most dynamic forward with potential to be not just a star but a superstar then he could be viewed as the clear BPA at 3. One that an organization cannot afford to overlook.

My opinion: I have Strome at 5 but it sounds like organizational need is going to be the criteria which differentiates Strome from the mix.

That being said I view Strome favorably. His skating isn't as bad as people make it out to be (he's average) but it will improve. I view Strome as an extremely cerebral player who is extremely underrated as a scorer. I actually view him more of a sniper than a playmaker which is odd given he had over 80 assists.

For the record, here's my top 10:
1) McDavid
2) Eichel
3) Hanifin
4) Marner
5) Strome
6) Provorov
7) Barzal
8) Crouse
9) Rantanen
10) Werenski

Last edited by hbk: 05-15-2015 at 04:27 PM."

again, I think you would have been taking a gamble on a guy that you liked falling to BOS pick which I think would have been a risk.

 

[DomiToDuclair]

a year from now i would have been fine with a marner pick

This team is still missing a couple of pieces, and in hindsight I would have still likely taken Strome despite his "fall off". This team I think is much closer to competing with 2 good centers in Dvorak and Strome than only one, even if I think out of the 3 that Hanifin will be the best.

 

[hbk]

Strome hasn't fallen off. He's improved skating, became top player on his team, won regular season title, and was named top prospect in Future watch. Don't buy into the bullcrap. He's developing which is what he's supposed to do.

 

[Jagged Ice]

Where would Strome go in this draft?

 

[rt]

I'd take him third.

 

[Heldig]

So the discussion that the Coyotes are trying to get Matthews is still raging. Uncovered this beauty from a TML fan;

I don't know...if they offered the two first rounders, OEL, Strome, and Dvorak/Domi then the Leafs have to think about it, especially if they have a strong suspicion that they will be able to sign Stamkos.

I am not saying the have to do it, just that they have to consider it.

Ya think they might consider it? Maybe for 2 or 3 seconds then they start the paper work. That is so bad the NHL might even veto it.

June 24 cant come soon enough.

 

[Heldig]

Where would Strome go in this draft?

I think he would go third again. After Matthews and Laine.

 

[rt]

Matthews > OEL+Strome+Domi+7th overall

 

[doaner]

I have a strong feeling were moving up in the draft. The new GM will want to make his mark and could do something like this. As long as Domi doesn't go, I'm happy. The 7th, 20th and Dvorak should easily get us Matthews.

Toronto could then flip the 7th and move up for Tkachuk and bring Dvorak together.

 

[Muppet]

Matthews > OEL+Strome+Domi+7th overall

Marner >>>>>> Matthews > OEL+Strome+Domi+7th overall.