Prospect Info: 2016 Draft | Trading Down From #4 Less Likely Now According to Stauffer

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BudBundy

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May 16, 2005
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Tkachuk had an ankle sprain from the OHL finals.

That was known at the time. That was his impression, for what that's worth. His profile in THN Draft Preview says the same thing and that represents the aggregate opinion of scouts. The question was what his weaknesses are, and that is the only negative I've read and heard. Pretty straight forward.

*edit* I just re-read the question and the previous poster mentioned Tkachuk but was actually asking what the knock on Chychrun was.

The knock on Chychrun is apparently questionable offensive potential and iffy decisions when pressured.
 

Smartguy

Registered User
May 3, 2010
4,000
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Edmonton
Mediocre skater. A buddy I work with watched him at Mem Cup in Red Deer and came away unimpressed despite the gaudy numbers. "Really heavy feet" was his impression and he knows his hockey.

Hard to say off of one tournament, seems like chychryn is over scouted, highly touted to start the year didn't show that he was elite so people brush him off for something new and shiny. I watched juolovi in the mem cup as well and was super unimpressed, I thought he was one of the worst dmen for London in the final game. You hear so much about his first pass but he repeatedly had troubles moving the puck and didn't defend well at all. When I think of a top 10 pick you would expect at least one game breaking quality, skating, scoring or defending well. I don't see any of these as exceptional with him. Admittedly I don't watch as many games as a scout so obviously they see something in him.
 

Tarus

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Jun 22, 2006
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That was known at the time. That was his impression, for what that's worth. His profile in THN Draft Preview says the same thing and that represents the aggregate opinion of scouts. The question was what his weaknesses are, and that is the only negative I've read and heard. Pretty straight forward.

I was just responding to your friend's assessment of Tkachuk's skating from his viewings during the memorial cup, which would have been negatively impacted by the injury.
 

BudBundy

Registered User
May 16, 2005
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I was just responding to your friend's assessment of Tkachuk's skating from his viewings during the memorial cup, which would have been negatively impacted by the injury.

Yep. No arguments here. I brought that high ankle sprain up when talking with my friend too and he said he was aware of it while watching the game. He said he could see the injury whenever he had to make a hard cut. He felt the heavy feet were a separate issue. It's not like he's a pro scout, so take it for what it's worth.
 

dem

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Mar 17, 2002
7,139
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Dubois vs Tkachuk is a nasty choice to make..

Dubois seems to have everything you would want in a player.... The kid is on point. Quick.. Physical.. 2 way player with major skills.

But Tkachuk just has something this team seems to be missing. Guy is greasy

Happy I don't have to make the call. Gut says take Tkachuk.. But man.. Could it ever backfire.
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
37,597
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Dubois vs Tkachuk is a nasty choice to make..

Dubois seems to have everything you would want in a player.... The kid is on point. Quick.. Physical.. 2 way player with major skills.

But Tkachuk just has something this team seems to be missing. Guy is greasy

Happy I don't have to make the call. Gut says take Tkachuk.. But man.. Could it ever backfire.

Chiarelli seems to have an obvious favorite in Tkachuk. He's been talking about him since before his amazing playoffs. I'm fine with it, even though my shallow opinion is that it would be better to get Dubois
 

Joey Moss

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Aug 29, 2008
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Dubois vs Tkachuk is a nasty choice to make..

Dubois seems to have everything you would want in a player.... The kid is on point. Quick.. Physical.. 2 way player with major skills.

But Tkachuk just has something this team seems to be missing. Guy is greasy

Happy I don't have to make the call. Gut says take Tkachuk.. But man.. Could it ever backfire.

The thing with Tkachuk is that some people are labelling him the smartest player in the draft. You can't teach hockey sense. He is capable of thinking the game on the same level as McDavid.
 

Jet Walters

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May 15, 2013
7,438
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Dubois vs Tkachuk is a nasty choice to make..

Dubois seems to have everything you would want in a player.... The kid is on point. Quick.. Physical.. 2 way player with major skills.

But Tkachuk just has something this team seems to be missing. Guy is greasy

Happy I don't have to make the call. Gut says take Tkachuk.. But man.. Could it ever backfire.

It is a tough call but it's still Dubois for me. Size, speed, two way play, and a better even strength scorer. The Oilers can find players like Maroon who can do a lot of the same things Tkackuk does on the PP, but finding an even strength producer with Dubois skill set is a lot harder role to fill.
 

North

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Jun 25, 2009
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I'm almost certain it's down to Tkachuk or Sergachev amongst Oilers brass.

I don't think so. The d man they seemed to be really high on is Juolevi and even then I think they are higher on Tkachuk and Dubois.

They aren't taking a d man at 4. If they trade back, they might.
 

syz

[1, 5, 6, 14]
Jul 13, 2007
30,379
15,881
McKenzie spitballing a bit about the draft, says that it sounds like Juolevi is the only "lock" to go top 10 among the D, with Sergachev, Bean, and Chychrun having a chance.

Still seems to feel that the top 5 is pretty much set.
 

vincent1999

Registered User
May 5, 2014
257
1
Player A or Player B

It is a tough call but it's still Dubois for me. Size, speed, two way play, and a better even strength scorer. The Oilers can find players like Maroon who can do a lot of the same things Tkackuk does on the PP, but finding an even strength producer with Dubois skill set is a lot harder role to fill.

from elite prospects:

Player A
A multi-dimensional energy winger that plays a pro-style, adaptive game. Well-versed as a guy who can consistently put up points, but also as an agitator who plays with a little bit of bite and nastiness. Skates with excellent balance and speed, outclassing many in his age range. No lack of offensive instincts and knows how to score in many different ways. Confidence in his abilities and playing to the extent of his capabilities strengthens his work ethic and creativity. All-in-all, a unique and effective forward who defines his own limits and seeks to exceed them, along with all on-ice expectations. (Curtis Joe, EP 2016)

Player B
A phenominal two-way power forward that thrives under pressure. He brings versatility, being able to play as a center or a winger, as well as elite skill and agility. His athleticism is exemplified in his strong skating that allows him to backcheck hard, explode up the ice in-transition, or propel himself up into hits that opponents won't soon forget. His defensive zone play is excellent; he proactively finds and takes away shooting and passing lanes, and makes it tough on opponents to pinpoint any daylight. When he is on the ice, he is uncontainable and leads the forecheck; he creates the time and space for himself to be creative with the puck and finds a way to get it to the back of the net. He makes the players around him better, serving as an example of what hard work and skill can and will be able to produce. A similarly punishing two-way forward with size and zero deficiencies, Anze Kopitar, is the type of player that this player will aspire to become at the next level. Pierre-Luc Dubois has the potential to develop into an elite two-way forward that excels as a positive catalyst in every facet of the roles he can play, be it the dynamic scorer, the set-up man, the intimidating power forward, or the defensive-minded shutdown guy. He is the type of player nobody likes to play against. (Curtis Joe, EP 2016)

A top-end talent that impacts all aspects of the game from different angles. May well be the most complete player in the 2016 NHL Entry Draft. His multidimensional play and elite offensive prowess reminds scouts a little bit of James Neal. Competitiveness marks his game and he consistently proves to be a high impact player when he is on the ice. [EP]


I like Player B

Player A is MT, and Player B is PLD. Player B is by "ALL ACCOUNTS" the better skater, and "THE MORE COMPLETE 200 FOOT" player. Oilers don't need another offensive end , and defensive end Jordan Eberle.
 

vincent1999

Registered User
May 5, 2014
257
1
Dubois vs Tkachuk

also, the "thing" that makes me reticent of Tkachuk is him being American born and raised. How long before he'd want out of Edmonton (ie the first winter), and maybe even Canada for that matter (ie the first month that he sees his income tax rate as it compares in the Great White North to the good old US of A). Americans making $1- 5 million a year, just hate like the dickens to pay taxes at the Canadian rate. It's like a $1 million a year just thrown away. His father was a "red/ white/ and blue" American flag kind of guy. I'm just saying .... be forewarned. It may sound harsh, but for the majority of American kids (but not all) it would be a factor. And particularly, I think for the kids, like Tkachuk that went through the US National Development Team program.

Maybe a big metro city like Toronto can hold onto a player like Mathews, but Edmonton isn't in that Toronto sort of "league", it just isn't. A northern Euro player like a Laine or Puljujarvi, can, like an Alfredsson, find a home in smaller Canadian city. But I have my doubts about a player like Tkachuk, and I don't even know anything about him. So .... before picking him, I'd do a heck of a lot of due diligence as to the likelihood of him being comfortable with living full time (and raising a family) in a cold mid-sized Canadian city which is Edmonton which doesn't have even the lure, topography or weather of a Vancouver.

Buyer beware.
 

vincent1999

Registered User
May 5, 2014
257
1
Tkachuk as less than the whole package

The thing with Tkachuk is that some people are labelling him the smartest player in the draft. You can't teach hockey sense. He is capable of thinking the game on the same level as McDavid.

I'd like to see a posting for such a quote. He certainly isn't thought to be as smart a hockey player as Mathews, and even a player like Nylander is probably more highly thought of in this regard than Tkachuk. And also, Tkachuk is pretty much praised only for his "below the dots" play--- what about the rest of the game, like defense and transition???
 

Narnia

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Mar 1, 2002
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Surrey, BC
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also, the "thing" that makes me reticent of Tkachuk is him being American born and raised. How long before he'd want out of Edmonton (ie the first winter), and maybe even Canada for that matter (ie the first month that he sees his income tax rate as it compares in the Great White North to the good old US of A). Americans making $1- 5 million a year, just hate like the dickens to pay taxes at the Canadian rate. It's like a $1 million a year just thrown away. His father was a "red/ white/ and blue" American flag kind of guy. I'm just saying .... be forewarned. It may sound harsh, but for the majority of American kids (but not all) it would be a factor. And particularly, I think for the kids, like Tkachuk that went through the US National Development Team program.

Maybe a big metro city like Toronto can hold onto a player like Mathews, but Edmonton isn't in that Toronto sort of "league", it just isn't. A northern Euro player like a Laine or Puljujarvi, can, like an Alfredsson, find a home in smaller Canadian city. But I have my doubts about a player like Tkachuk, and I don't even know anything about him. So .... before picking him, I'd do a heck of a lot of due diligence as to the likelihood of him being comfortable with living full time (and raising a family) in a cold mid-sized Canadian city which is Edmonton which doesn't have even the lure, topography or weather of a Vancouver.

Buyer beware.
Don't forget there's no sales tax in Alberta and I believe taxes are lower in Alberta than the rest of Canada. Hendricks is American and has no problems in Edmonton. Patrick Maroon is Ameriocan. Mark Fayne is American and signed in Edmonton. Tyler Pitlick and Jordan Oesterle who signed recently are American. Doug Weigh spent a lot of years in Edmonton.

Just saying.
 
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AddyTheWrath

Registered User
Mar 24, 2015
11,430
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Toronto
Guys quick couple of questions: What time is the draft on Friday (MT) and when do you guys think it'll end? Need to schedule my plans accordingly :laugh:
 

lakai17

Registered User
Aug 10, 2006
20,951
1,344
I do not agree fully with Bobby Mac this time around actually(more often I do). I like how interesting this first round is going to be.
 

vincent1999

Registered User
May 5, 2014
257
1
Don't forget there's no sales tax in Alberta and I believe taxes are lower in Alberta than the rest of Canada. Hendricks is American and has no problems in Edmonton. Patrick Maroon is Ameriocan. Mark Fayne is American and signed in Edmonton. Tyler Pitlick and Jordan Oesterle who signed recently are American. Doug Weigh spent a lot of years in Edmonton.

Just saying.

sales tax isn't the big issue. For states like in particular Texas and Florida (and others), where there is no state tax, the difference is huge. With the Notley government, Alberta has lost advantages it once had, and now is more comparable to other Canadian cities/ locales. The effective tax rate on an annual income of, say $4 million means taxes in Canada of $2 million (and a net take home of $2 million) compared to taxes in Texas and Florida of $1 million (and a net take home of $3 million). That's not chump change, and .... what's a little sales tax. And housing is twice the cost in Canada (or 4X the cost in Vancouver or Toronto) as compared to many American cities-- not Manhattan, of course, but lots of the other hockey cities.

hell, even if I'm Canadian born, raised and with all my family living here, and I'm making this kind of money for a short career in hockey, my agent is telling me that if I have a choice, then the US is the place to work and ply my trade.

Oh, and the players that you listed who are American and signing contracts to play in Edmonton, well, done of them are elite, most of them really don't have a lot a choice in the matter, and many are just pleased to be playing the game and getting a professional hockey salary. Pitlick, lucky to be signed-- he could be out of hockey or at best a career AHL player; Oesterle, a young kid getting an opportunity to pay on a bottom ranked team (what choices does he really have); Maroon, again Edmonton is his opportunity to pay after slipping pretty much out of consideration in Anaheim; Fayne, signed as a free agent to big money, and was waived down to the AHL into last year's season, sort of like a "Bickell" situation in Chicago. Hendricks, a fourth line player getting high end good third line money in Edmonton-- he's in the press box on many teams, and making a lot less money as well-- he's making less than a mill in Chicago, right, so taxes aren't everything if the team is paying you more than what your going rate should be.
So how do any of these players compare to a kid that's a top 5 draft pick and perhaps could become a top-line forward and making top-line forward money, well, they don't compare.

Doug Weight-- that was literally last century. And, Edmonton was just a stop over for him in his career. Didn't begin here, and didn't end here either. Sort of makes my point, doesn't it???

The teams that succeed are those that identify there core elite players, get them at entry level contracts, and sign them long term as RFA's and UFA's. And the bottom filler players are interchangeable, tradeable, and acquirable. If you are drafting at #4 it's to get a core player, not a bottom filler.
 
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