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Line Combos: 2016-2017 Kings Roster

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kingsofLA said:
I think you beat him with the idea of Trading Muzzin over Martinez. + We already had Muzzin with Doughty and set up Martinez as the 2nd Pairing D this season. Lasted only 2 Periods before they threw that idea out the window.
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That's why it's funny!

deeshamrock said:
Plenty? Disagree, for 17/18 Kings have 60.6M committed to 8 Forwards, 5 Defense men and 3 goalies (not including Budaj, whose contract is up)

of the 4 to 5 forwards that they need to sign, or replace, Toffoli and Pearson will eat up 12 to 13 M of that.
Doesn't leave alot left for the other 6 or 7 players that need contracts.

DL will have to move a contract in the 5 m range to get some back and even then it will be close.
And as much as I'd like to say with King, purcell, Seto, etc, going away, that the kids will come up, DL and Sutter esp, like their veterans, so I would not be surprised to see another aging vet signed in the offseason.

But that's part of the homework assignment he has. He's at a crossroads, needs to take a hard look at his projection board for the next several years and build a solid future.

Hopefully ,that starts with drafting a scoring center this year. Kopi turning 30 next summer and no top center in the pipeline isn't good.
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Yup... plenty of money. Say Pearson at 3M, Toffoli at 6.5M, that gets to about 69M with Greene/Lewis/King gone and replaced with youth. The cap is 73 so there's money for at least one of those players. If the cap goes up the Kings could keep both King & Lewis. The problem here is that if anyone jumps up off the farm there'll need to be a space for them to play and it will probably displace one of King/Lewis anyways.

I like Greene, but have serious doubts as to if he'll be around for another long playoff run so he may not need to be worried about.

Also the Kings will lose a player to Vegas. Depending on who that is it may free up extra cash.

I'm not worried about the cap at all.
 
Trolfoli said:
Yup... plenty of money. Say Pearson at 3M, Toffoli at 6.5M, that gets to about 69M with Greene/Lewis/King gone and replaced with youth. The cap is 73 so there's money for at least one of those players. If the cap goes up the Kings could keep both King & Lewis. The problem here is that if anyone jumps up off the farm there'll need to be a space for them to play and it will probably displace one of King/Lewis anyways.

I like Greene, but have serious doubts as to if he'll be around for another long playoff run so he may not need to be worried about.

Also the Kings will lose a player to Vegas. Depending on who that is it may free up extra cash.

I'm not worried about the cap at all.
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You still haven't explained 'plenty', meaning in excess or abundant. They have 7 contracts to sign. And even if the CAP goes up to say 74.5, that doesn't leave alot of space.

Pearson won't sign for 3M, his value is higher than that, if not in LA elsewhere, he'll get something in the 4.5 M range. King walks, due to not being resigned (we hope) but where are Lewis and Greene going? Nobody is trading for them. Greene could get bought out, that would net them 1M or so. Lose somebody to Vegas, depends on who that is, but even if it's a 2M, that gives them 3M , which gives them about 17 M to sign 7 players, with 2 top liners that will get 12M or so.

La Due has a contracting expiring ,and from what I've read the Kings are high on him. They only have 5 D signed, and if Greene isn't here, that is another d that needs replacing. Gravel will get a slight increase but it still counts. Then somebody else (LaDue perhaps) takes Greene's spot and even if conservative, still counts. And Sutter isn't not of the Ilk to have a lot of Kids on the team, let alone the blueline. DL has been on the hunt for the last 2 years, and as recently as training camp, for a top 4 d.

For DL to get a complete roster signed , won't be easy. Shore and Andreoff have expiring contracts, if you are not signing them, somebody has to take there place. It all adds up.
23 roster spots, 16 under contract for 17/18.
 
deeshamrock said:
You still haven't explained 'plenty', meaning in excess or abundant. They have 7 contracts to sign. And even if the CAP goes up to say 74.5, that doesn't leave alot of space.

Pearson won't sign for 3M, his value is higher than that, if not in LA elsewhere, he'll get something in the 4.5 M range. King walks, due to not being resigned (we hope) but where are Lewis and Greene going? Nobody is trading for them. Greene could get bought out, that would net them 1M or so. Lose somebody to Vegas, depends on who that is, but even if it's a 2M, that gives them 3M , which gives them about 17 M to sign 7 players, with 2 top liners that will get 12M or so.

La Due has a contracting expiring ,and from what I've read the Kings are high on him. They only have 5 D signed, and if Greene isn't here, that is another d that needs replacing. Gravel will get a slight increase but it still counts. Then somebody else (LaDue perhaps) takes Greene's spot and even if conservative, still counts. And Sutter isn't not of the Ilk to have a lot of Kids on the team, let alone the blueline. DL has been on the hunt for the last 2 years, and as recently as training camp, for a top 4 d.

For DL to get a complete roster signed , won't be easy. Shore and Andreoff have expiring contracts, if you are not signing them, somebody has to take there place. It all adds up.
23 roster spots, 16 under contract for 17/18.
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It can't be super difficult though because of the money leaving...but a lot still hinges on the cap. Have to imagine Purcell (1.6), Setoguchi, and Gilbert (1.4) are gone for salary reasons (doubt Seto comes back at league minimum, otherwise do it! :laugh:). Scuds too. I'd be MOST worried about Andreoff, but doubt Shore gets more on the market, but if he does, well, bye. Gravel is an RFA too which scares me. Guys like Kempe, LaDue, Mersch should be easy callups for cheaper, King is an org favorite but who knows there, and that's without PTOs or training camp surprises...and without counting the draft.

Unless someone goes nuclear (Dowd :( ), I think we will be alright, even without making dramatic moves. Granted this is just a cursory lookover at the cap hits, without using a be-a-gm tool of some sort (do any exist anymore?)
 
As an aside, watching the speed of the rest of the team, DK is actually looking like an odd man out. It's strange how quick we look until he's on the ice...and i'm one of his biggest defenders.
 
deeshamrock said:
You still haven't explained 'plenty', meaning in excess or abundant. They have 7 contracts to sign. And even if the CAP goes up to say 74.5, that doesn't leave alot of space.

Pearson won't sign for 3M, his value is higher than that, if not in LA elsewhere, he'll get something in the 4.5 M range. King walks, due to not being resigned (we hope) but where are Lewis and Greene going? Nobody is trading for them. Greene could get bought out, that would net them 1M or so. Lose somebody to Vegas, depends on who that is, but even if it's a 2M, that gives them 3M , which gives them about 17 M to sign 7 players, with 2 top liners that will get 12M or so.

La Due has a contracting expiring ,and from what I've read the Kings are high on him. They only have 5 D signed, and if Greene isn't here, that is another d that needs replacing. Gravel will get a slight increase but it still counts. Then somebody else (LaDue perhaps) takes Greene's spot and even if conservative, still counts. And Sutter isn't not of the Ilk to have a lot of Kids on the team, let alone the blueline. DL has been on the hunt for the last 2 years, and as recently as training camp, for a top 4 d.

For DL to get a complete roster signed , won't be easy. Shore and Andreoff have expiring contracts, if you are not signing them, somebody has to take there place. It all adds up.
23 roster spots, 16 under contract for 17/18.
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Plenty as in $18 million in cap space by trading Amart, losing McNabb in the draft. You guys are dreaming if you think Pearson is worth $4.5-5 mill?? He's getting a bridge contract likely in the $3.5-4 mill range while Toffoli hits that $6-6.5 mill per mark=$9.5-10.5 of cap space leaving at least $7.5 million to fill out the roster..... granted this was all an assumption but I'm sure you guys didn't read that..
Kempe-Kopitar-Gaborik....Kempe's cap hit is less than 800k
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli....both the kids have been discussed
Setoguchi-Dowd-Brown....Seto and Nic both could be signed for a mill or less each..800k range
Clifford-Lewis-Nolan...all under contract
Forbort-Doughty
Muzzin-Gravel....Gravel will likely get Close to a mill.. 750k-850k
Greene-Gilbert....maybe Ladue, or some other guy we think is trash but plays good in our system...so $2.5-3 for Gilbert
Quick
 
deeshamrock said:
DL will have to move a contract in the 5 m range to get some back and even then it will be close.
And as much as I'd like to say with King, purcell, Seto, etc, going away, that the kids will come up, DL and Sutter esp, like their veterans, so I would not be surprised to see another aging vet signed in the offseason.
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Like veterans or not, if you don't have the cap space, there's not much you can do. There's a little over $5m if they let the UFA's walk. Plus whoever gets taken in the draft. If they can find enough prospects to put down in Ontario, meaning the Reign then don't need a bunch of veterans on AHL deals, a guy like Nolan could be sent down at no cap hit, saving almost another million. Maybe Lombardi could trade Clifford or Lewis if they don't go in the draft. Even a 50% retention on either guy would be another million saved. Maybe he could trade Greene to Vegas, since he only has 1 year left, retain 50%, and Vegas can send Greene down to the minors, which would be another potential million cut from the cap. Or the Kings can send him down to Ontario themselves, or buy him out, and save almost a million.

I don't know if Vegas will have their own AHL team, but if not, could the Kings trade Greene to Vegas at 50%, Vegas then sends him to Ontario(even if he doesn't play like Scuderi), and the Kings get a couple more hundred thousand in cap relief than if they sent him down themselves? Or would that be circumvention?

There are enough ways to potentially clear some cap space, but tough to see Lombardi signing any aging vets when they have to sign two more wingers in addition to Brown and Gaborik. He did it over the summer, but again, the Kings can't even fill out an AHL roster with their own prospects, and the Reign need a certain amount of young guys. He might have to sign a handful of undrafted guys after this season, who knows.

The trick will definitely be if enough defensemen play well this year. Martinez isn't in the core, but he's in that 2nd group, and the type of player you need in today's league. McNabb and Forbort, younger and cheaper. Of the potential players from the Kings, you'd think it would be one of those 3 that would go in the draft. Assuming Dowd forces Lombardi to protect more than 4 forwards.
 
I think amart is untouchable because of his salary...like Muzzin, it would cost more to replace him anyway. Why rock the boat?

All of our bottom six redundancies, at least one-two will be shed for cheaper deals.
 
deeshamrock said:
You still haven't explained 'plenty', meaning in excess or abundant. They have 7 contracts to sign. And even if the CAP goes up to say 74.5, that doesn't leave alot of space.

Pearson won't sign for 3M, his value is higher than that, if not in LA elsewhere, he'll get something in the 4.5 M range. King walks, due to not being resigned (we hope) but where are Lewis and Greene going? Nobody is trading for them. Greene could get bought out, that would net them 1M or so. Lose somebody to Vegas, depends on who that is, but even if it's a 2M, that gives them 3M , which gives them about 17 M to sign 7 players, with 2 top liners that will get 12M or so.

La Due has a contracting expiring ,and from what I've read the Kings are high on him. They only have 5 D signed, and if Greene isn't here, that is another d that needs replacing. Gravel will get a slight increase but it still counts. Then somebody else (LaDue perhaps) takes Greene's spot and even if conservative, still counts. And Sutter isn't not of the Ilk to have a lot of Kids on the team, let alone the blueline. DL has been on the hunt for the last 2 years, and as recently as training camp, for a top 4 d.

For DL to get a complete roster signed , won't be easy. Shore and Andreoff have expiring contracts, if you are not signing them, somebody has to take there place. It all adds up.
23 roster spots, 16 under contract for 17/18.
Click to expand...

I don't understand where all the stress is. They can get a roster with all the important parts for about $70M no problem. From there they can decide on what/who they're able to keep like King/Lewis/Greene. Replacing any of those guys like Mersch/Kempe/LaDue.

Maybe you're looking at what it would take to get this team back to a contender and are stressing out that there isn't enough space to fill out the roster. I see this year and next as waiting to see what develops out of the next batch of youth, then see if they can be competitive after. So there's no real need to get to the maximum cap.

As far as a cap calculator, capfreindly might have one, but I just use Excel. Takes a few minuets to punch everything in and add it all up. Once you do it and save it, it just takes minor tweaks to adjust. Don't forget Richards & Scuderi's cap hits. :)
 
Trolfoli said:
I don't understand where all the stress is. They can get a roster with all the important parts for about $70M no problem. From there they can decide on what/who they're able to keep like King/Lewis/Greene. Replacing any of those guys like Mersch/Kempe/LaDue.

Maybe you're looking at what it would take to get this team back to a contender and are stressing out that there isn't enough space to fill out the roster. I see this year and next as waiting to see what develops out of the next batch of youth, then see if they can be competitive after. So there's no real need to get to the maximum cap.

As far as a cap calculator, capfreindly might have one, but I just use Excel. Takes a few minuets to punch everything in and add it all up. Once you do it and save it, it just takes minor tweaks to adjust. Don't forget Richards & Scuderi's cap hits. :)
Click to expand...

Capfriendly is actually what i use as reference, but I'm not trying to maximize the salary space. Rather what i want to see is a Defense with 3 defensive studs like we had during our run, granted that was just a perfect storm in regards to the players we were able to attain at those salaries....

The Kings system doesn't thrive on offense as much as it does on heavy, disciplined play with mobile defensemen capable of shutting down top lines.. People on here say we lost a lot when VV was deported but the reality was we lost to father time in regards to our back bone in Willie Mitchell, Rob Scuderi and a younger Matt Greene... The defensive acumen of both Gravel and Forbort is strikingly similar to Willie and Rob and their ability to clear the puck out of the zone with stick to stick passes is invaluable... Offensively we will always struggle under Sutter but our D is key..

Amart is a solid Bottom 6 Dman but when asked to step up into a top 4 role it just hasn't worked out for what ever reason... So I pretty much agree with what you said about this year saying a lot about what our next batch of kids will be like but the waaaaaay early returns are pretty awesome....
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
I think amart is untouchable because of his salary...like Muzzin, it would cost more to replace him anyway. Why rock the boat?

All of our bottom six redundancies, at least one-two will be shed for cheaper deals.
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You guys are seriously overrating Amart. He's an excellent 3rd pairing Dman and solid second pair. Forbert will be a top pairing shutdown D to play with Doughty. Forbert is cheap and Amart is 4 mil the Kings don't need to spend with all the D in the pipeline. Amart's cap hit would be great on a team without cap issues. That isn't the kings. He will be gone next year unless Vegas takes someone else.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
As an aside, watching the speed of the rest of the team, DK is actually looking like an odd man out. It's strange how quick we look until he's on the ice...and i'm one of his biggest defenders.
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It's why a guy like Mersch is not up playing on the NHL roster.

Slow transition players, are having a hard time finding NHL roster spots.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
As an aside, watching the speed of the rest of the team, DK is actually looking like an odd man out. It's strange how quick we look until he's on the ice...and i'm one of his biggest defenders.
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Especially when he carries the puck up the ice. He lead the rush on a shift Saturday and both his linemates had to slow down to keep up with him, only to go offsides. I still don't see what he brings to the team other than a legacy spot in the top 6.
 
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HookKing said:
You guys are seriously overrating Amart. He's an excellent 3rd pairing Dman and solid second pair. Forbert will be a top pairing shutdown D to play with Doughty. Forbert is cheap and Amart is 4 mil the Kings don't need to spend with all the D in the pipeline. Amart's cap hit would be great on a team without cap issues. That isn't the kings. He will be gone next year unless Vegas takes someone else.
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Thing is, I don't think there's anyone in the pipeline that's going to put up the 30+ points he got last year, and is going to get this year. That production is absolutely needed on this team. I look at is as he's developed into a 2nd pair guy, why trade him now when he's a bargain?

Martinez' production last year was around these guys:

Seth Jones
Andrej Sekera
Brian Campbell
Jake Gardiner
Dion Phaneuf
Matt Niskanen
Ryan Ellis
Colton Parayko
Dmitry Orlov
Hampus Lindholm

That's some pretty good company right there, who in the pipeline can do that? I don't expect him to stay on a pace for 60 points, but you aren't going to get 30+ points with solid defensive play any cheaper than $4M.
 
Fishhead said:
Thing is, I don't think there's anyone in the pipeline that's going to put up the 30+ points he got last year, and is going to get this year. That production is absolutely needed on this team. I look at is as he's developed into a 2nd pair guy, why trade him now when he's a bargain?

Martinez' production last year was around these guys:

Seth Jones
Andrej Sekera
Brian Campbell
Jake Gardiner
Dion Phaneuf
Matt Niskanen
Ryan Ellis
Colton Parayko
Dmitry Orlov
Hampus Lindholm

That's some pretty good company right there, who in the pipeline can do that? I don't expect him to stay on a pace for 60 points, but you aren't going to get 30+ points with solid defensive play any cheaper than $4M.
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Because it will leave McNabb as Doughty's partner that's why.
 
but who"s filling in?

don't we have to call someone up? or will Nolan take Lewis' spot, and Lewis takes Kopitar's?
is my question.. .:help:
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Day to day so no roster spot opened up.

Patty O'Neal said expect Lewis to fill that spot.

Don't kill the messenger please
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Lewis better dust off his scoring equipment not the board cleaning equipment he uses now. Makes me miss the days of Kopitar, Richards, Stoll (the early years).
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Day to day so no roster spot opened up.

Patty O'Neal said expect Lewis to fill that spot.

Don't kill the messenger please
Click to expand...

To me, Lewis is best utilized on the 4th line , 3rd maybe. Top 6 no ,and I disagree with Sutter here (who had defended that in the past citing Lewis and his speed) you need to have top 6 ice IQ and instincts to be successful on a first line and against top competition . Speed won't do it.
But I can see it , because Sutter love Lewis.
I'd rather roll Carter up there with TT and keep Pearson with Dowd on the 2nd line to give both lines a scoring forward. I like what I've seen with Dowd and giving him reg top 6 minuters while Kopi is hurt would grow his game a bit.

Don't trust the day to day, recall hearing that about Martinez when he was out and Lewis as well in past years.

Important thing is for them to allow whatever it is to heal and not rush him back, esp if it is a wrist injury. For a center, where taking face-offs is a critical part of the job, that's crucial. And if the other center has a sniff there is a injury, whacking at it .
HOpe he's back and healthy soon.
 
The Centers will be

Carter
Dowd
Lewis
Shore

That's how it roll, ice time wise as well.

Sutter is not going to play Lewis against teams best defenders, for 20+ minutes.

Probably shelter Lewis, Shore/Carter will be getting most of the Defensive draws Sutter can muster.

Dowd's line will see more ice time.
 
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deeshamrock said:
To me, Lewis is best utilized on the 4th line , 3rd maybe. Top 6 no ,and I disagree with Sutter here (who had defended that in the past citing Lewis and his speed) you need to have top 6 ice IQ and instincts to be successful on a first line and against top competition . Speed won't do it.
But I can see it , because Sutter love Lewis.
I'd rather roll Carter up there with TT and keep Pearson with Dowd on the 2nd line to give both lines a scoring forward. I like what I've seen with Dowd and giving him reg top 6 minuters while Kopi is hurt would grow his game a bit.

Don't trust the day to day, recall hearing that about Martinez when he was out and Lewis as well in past years.

Important thing is for them to allow whatever it is to heal and not rush him back, esp if it is a wrist injury. For a center, where taking face-offs is a critical part of the job, that's crucial. And if the other center has a sniff there is a injury, whacking at it .
HOpe he's back and healthy soon.
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Browsing Lewis' stats 2 things I found shocking:1-he was drafted in the 1st round. Who was the scout and when was he fired? 2-Lewis has 1 power play point in his career. In 2012-2013 he averaged an amazing 1:07 on the PP, proving Sutter loves Lewis and love is blind. For this season Lewis is averaging :05 on the PP but that's about to go up apparently.
 
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