Line Combos: 2016-2017 Kings Roster

[HookKing]

Personally, I think Martinez is highly underrated. Him on the 3rd pairing with Greene a number of years ago and we never go caught in our zone. Sure Doughty and Voynov were better at the time, but the Kings were NEVER stuck in their zone.

If you remember the record with and without Martinez the year he was injured, it was emphatically a better win-loss with him in the line-up versus without.

The guy put the final nail in our 2nd cup and I could see that developing from the moment he passed to Toffoli. I knew he could outskate just getting onto the ice.

No need to lose a Puck moving defenseman - especially one that can play either right or left.

He isn't a hall of famer, but I absolutely want him on our defensive corps.

Don't get me wrong, I love Amart but we're about to move into Blackhawk mode - shedding contracts for cheaper players. Get used to it.

 

[Reaper45]

This is probably Dean's toughest decision since he reached on Forbort, we all know who he could have taken, and now that Derek seems to be coming into his own you could lose him or McNabb. I think a better idea is to build a Vegas team with the cap and try to figure out if they'll even need a Forbort or McNabb. They could be loaded at D and select Lewis to anchor the bottom 6 (not sure if that's literal or figurative). Vegas will be loaded in net for sure and the theory is they will be good defensively as well with the 3 being protected by the majority of NHL teams. Hypothetically, that's 30 #4 defensemen available so would you need Forbort?

What is the order of the draft? They could get 8 defenseman before they even get to the Kings...

Maybe you cash in on Martinez and get some picks or a prospect to restock the pipeline and keep Doughty, Muzzin, McNabb and Forbort, with Gravel being exempt.

 

[kings11]

Don't get me wrong, I love Amart but we're about to move into Blackhawk mode - shedding contracts for cheaper players. Get used to it.

So again heres the big"IF", if Forbort, Gravel and maybe Gilbert prove to be as good as they've been to start the season then guys like Amart could be traded for cap purposes and McNabb exposed to the expansion draft.... As such our defense would like the following;

Forbort-Doughty...with Forbort making less than 700k
Muzzin-Gravel....with Gravel likely signing for less than a mill per
????-Gilbert...
keep in mind it could be McNabb since LV might be tempted to take a guy like gabby at under $5 mill per even if the contract is long. Also we will likely also have Greene, Ladue and maybe Clague waiting in the wings as a dark horse...

Although, the more points Brownie attains the more tempting he becomes especially for an expansion franchise that will need a leader....

So now Dean will calculate the probability of all this and lets say for arguments sake that Brown puts up 40 points and plays with aggression, Gabby comes back and scores 20-25 goals, and McNabb becomes Wally Pipp will Forbort and Gravel solidifying the D like Willie and Rob did.... You could trade Amart to Montreal for Mike McCarron and maybe Washington's 2nd rounder???? It gives us an extra pick plus a big, bruiser ala Kings hockey for the bottom 6....

By exposing a revitalized Brown(keep in mind this theoretical), an aging sniper on a solid deal by today standards still capable of 20+ goals per season and a young Dman( of which there will be many.... Who looks more enticing ???? That is the question, Buuuuut as the season plays on the answer should become much clearer... So for now lets hope the guys can make one more magical run before a real season of change begins

 

[damacles1156]

Even If Brown scores reasonable well, Vegas still wouldn't take him. He is due too much money, for too long.

With a poor track record of production(for Brown), there will be much better options for Vegas to take.

No one knows if Gabo is still capable of scoring, the guy can't stay on the ice.

You can't be productive, if you miss 30+ games a season. Gabo will be 35 years of age in February, and have only scored 12 goals in his last 54 NHL games.

 

[HookKing]

What is the order of the draft? They could get 8 defenseman before they even get to the Kings...

Maybe you cash in on Martinez and get some picks or a prospect to restock the pipeline and keep Doughty, Muzzin, McNabb and Forbort, with Gravel being exempt.

I don't think there is an "order to the draft". I think everyone submits the list to Vegas at the same time. Unfortunately I don't think AMart would fetch all that much in a trade. Every team has the same problem, they can only save a max of 4 Dmen and probably most will save 3. If the Kings start to look like contenders (which doesn't look like it will take much in the West this year) DL won't trade him before the deadline anyway.

There is still a slight chance they may not take AMart, they may find 4 or 5 younger puckmovers or want a healthy Gaborik. There is no way Vegas would pass up an exposed DF.

I think next year's D will look like this:

Doughty
Muzzin
Forbert
Gravel
Greene
McNabb
LaDue

Clague (real long shot).

 

[kings11]

Even If Brown scores reasonable well, Vegas still wouldn't take him. He is due too much money, for too long.

With a poor track record of production(for Brown), there will be much better options for Vegas to take.

No one knows if Gabo is still capable of scoring, the guy can't stay on the ice.

You can't be productive, if you miss 30+ games a season. Gabo will be 35 years of age in February, and have only scored 12 goals in his last 54 NHL games.

LV needs to take a player from each team and with the likely probability that better, younger, higher upside Dman will be available the temptation to take a big contract will be there. Keep in mind that they also need to take on contracts that run beyond the upcoming season per rules...
By protecting;
Kopitar
Carter
Toffoli
Pearson
Dowd
Doughty
Muzzin
Forbort
Quick
And by trading Amart for what I mentioned or something close we would increase our cap space while trying our best to sway LV to take their pick of McNabb,Brown,Gaborik,Mersch,Greene. As mentioned by others the D corps is going to be pretty good/great, so why get McNabb for a year ??? Greene could also be a good pick up since his contract would be up after the season... But as I've said, everything will be determined by the end of the season so all my mumbo jumbo might prove mute...

 

[damacles1156]

McNabb and Gabo, I could see Vegas taking, if Dowd/Forbort are protected.

But Gabo has to stay healthy the rest of the season, and actually produce.

Or that's another contract, the Kings will be stuck with.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

McNabb and Gabo, I could see Vegas taking, if Dowd/Forbort are protected.

But Gabo has to stay healthy the rest of the season, and actually produce.

Or that's another contract, the Kings will be stuck with.

Now correct me if i'm wrong (and i know u will lol ) but didn't Gaborik pretty much hint that he signed a longer contract than he intends to play ? I really doubt he finishes out his contract before retiring I also think he could end up on ltir aka like pronger if his injuries keep up like they have been

 

[damacles1156]

Now correct me if i'm wrong (and i know u will lol ) but didn't Gaborik pretty much hint that he signed a longer contract than he intends to play ? I really doubt he finishes out his contract before retiring I also think he could end up on ltir aka like pronger if his injuries keep up like they have been

It's possible he could retire. Although that's a lot of money to leave on the table.

The Pronger situation can't happen anymore, the League put a stop to that. The cap hit's count.

 

[HookKing]

McNabb and Gabo, I could see Vegas taking, if Dowd/Forbort are protected.

But Gabo has to stay healthy the rest of the season, and actually produce.

Or that's another contract, the Kings will be stuck with.

I'm on the fence with Gaborik, if he's healthy he adds another dimension to the offense. Still, the Kings need to free up cash in the worst way.

No way Vegas would take McNabb over Martinez if you protect Dowd and Forbert.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

It's possible he could retire. Although that's a lot of money to leave on the table.

Was not the contract structured where most of the money was up front and he plays for a lot less in the last few years. This is the same thing in the brown contract that las vegas may take advantage of. There still going to need to reach the cap floor and it saves money if the hit is higher than actual dollars Just something to keep in mind with all this expansion talk

 

[damacles1156]

Was not the contract structured where most of the money was up front and he plays for a lot less in the last few years. This is the same thing in the brown contract that las vegas may take advantage of. There still going to need to reach the cap floor and it saves money if the hit is higher than actual dollars Just something to keep in mind with all this expansion talk

The back diving contracts are gone, they are not allowed, Gabo is still payed a decent amount of money at the end of his contract.

I believe it's:

17/18=5.0M
18/19=4.5M
19/20=3.1M
20/21=3.0M


Brown is
17/18=6.5M
18/19=5.5M
19/20=5.5M
20/21=4.0M
21/22=4.0M

That's why you can't trade Brown, and his contract is so toxic, he is owed a lot of money.

 

[damacles1156]

I'm on the fence with Gaborik, if he's healthy he adds another dimension to the offense. Still, the Kings need to free up cash in the worst way.

No way Vegas would take McNabb over Martinez if you protect Dowd and Forbert.

The Premise was that A-Mart was already traded.

 

[Choralone]

There is zero chance the Kings expose Forbert to keep Amart. I'm getting a huge kick out of this since for the past two years virtually every proposal to improve the team involved trading Martinez now all of a sudden he's Ray Bourque.

I don't think it's inconsistent - Martinez was mentioned in trades not because fans wanted to get rid of him, but because he would likely net a pretty good return for him (unlike Dwight King et al.) without leaving a big hole in the system. Leaving him exposed means the Kings give up that potentially good return for nothing.

On a different note:
I think it's very hard to project this whole expansion thing because we:
1) Don't know the menu Las Vegas has to choose from - who else is available will have a huge impact on who they would want to take from us

2) Don't know their strategy - specifically, how much they want to build from what they can draft versus taking the "best" players available and trying to make trade afterwards. There's a lot of uncertainty in the latter, and if I were Las Vegas I would try to build from what I could take at the draft and get the chemistry / build I want right from the get go, rather than hoping I could pluck a "better" player and trade him for what I "really" want.

 

[USE Fi]

McNabb and Gabo, I could see Vegas taking, if Dowd/Forbort are protected.

But Gabo has to stay healthy the rest of the season, and actually produce.

Or that's another contract, the Kings will be stuck with.

If you think Kings are leaving McNabb unprotected over Forbort you are really wrong.

 

[damacles1156]

If you think Kings are leaving McNabb unprotected over Forbort you are really wrong.

If Forbort continues to play like he is, while pushing 20+ minutes a night.

Why wouldn't the Kings protect him ? He is even cheaper than McNabb.

McNabb is out for the next 4-7 weeks.

Thinking McNabb has somehow cemented his place on the roster would be foolish.

 

[USE Fi]

If Forbort continues to play like he is, while pushing 20+ minutes a night.

Why wouldn't the Kings protect him ? He is even cheaper than McNabb.

McNabb is out for the next 4-7 weeks.

Look`s like you don`t watch many games.

 

[damacles1156]

Look`s like you don`t watch many games.

Like wise for you.

Cause McNabb won't be playing in any of them for the next month or two month's.

McNabb is not Doughty/Muzzin, the guy has more to prove, just like Forbort.

 

[HookKing]

The back diving contracts are gone, they are not allowed, Gabo is still payed a decent amount of money at the end of his contract.

I believe it's:

17/18=5.0M
18/19=4.5M
19/20=3.1M
20/21=3.0M


Brown is
17/18=6.5M
18/19=5.5M
19/20=5.5M
20/21=4.0M
21/22=4.0M

That's why you can't trade Brown, and his contract is so toxic, he is owed a lot of money.

The last two years aren't really that much for a team that will take a while to get anywhere near the cap. I think he said originally the contract was 1 year more than he wanted.

There is at least one scenario where Vegas might take Brown. That is if they decided rather than overpay a bunch of mediocre or unproven players that don't want to be there why not just take on 1 or 2 terrible contracts to get to the cap requirement? After all, they still need a captain someone to pull together all these players that haven't played together and won't be happy to be stuck in the desert yet entertain and build a new hockey culture. Brown is somewhat of a lightening rod and the new team will want publicity. Moreover, he can still play he is just overpaid.

Of course that scenario is highly unlikely unless Brown told DL that he desperately wanted out for being humiliated. I think he's accepted his fate and will not want to take his family to Vegas.

That may be Vegas' biggest problem, finding players that want to stay there.

 

[HookKing]

The Premise was that A-Mart was already traded.

Then that makes sense.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Still you guys are missing the point that even if Martinez is left unprotected Vegas may not need a 3-4 Dman, he slots in at 2 positions on D. If he's a 1-2 you're in trouble and with the majority of teams possibly protecting only 3 D Vegas will have their pick of the litter. They also will need to fill up the Cap space and they have a year to plot it all out. You could focus on age, contract length, cap space, Vegas is in a great position. Same goes for goalies. If as projected Pittsburgh doesn't protect Fleury and Tampa doesn't protect Bishop Vegas would take Bishop and Fleury would remain a Penguin to their dismay. They're not gonna select both goalies. Bishop is UFA after this season, NM.

 

[Choralone]

If Kopitar's line merely neutralizes the other team's top line, and we get enough scoring from the other lines to win consistently, than Dwight King can stay on the top line all year for all I care. It's all about the wins.

 

[HookKing]

If you think Kings are leaving McNabb unprotected over Forbort you are really wrong.

Forbert is already better defensively and his potential is way higher because he can skate and he makes plays no one else can with that long reach.

Yes, its very early and of course there will be stumbles and he could fall off a cliff and peter out completely but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[damacles1156]

If Kopitar's line merely neutralizes the other team's top line, and we get enough scoring from the other lines to win consistently, than Dwight King can stay on the top line all year for all I care. It's all about the wins.

Gabo will be back in December. Kopitar is not going to stay this unproductive for-ever, regardless who is winger's are.

Kopitar has proven he can score with anybody on his wings.

 

[HookKing]

Still you guys are missing the point that even if Martinez is left unprotected Vegas may not need a 3-4 Dman, he slots in at 2 positions on D. If he's a 1-2 you're in trouble and with the majority of teams possibly protecting only 3 D Vegas will have their pick of the litter. They also will need to fill up the Cap space and they have a year to plot it all out. You could focus on age, contract length, cap space, Vegas is in a great position. Same goes for goalies. If as projected Pittsburgh doesn't protect Fleury and Tampa doesn't protect Bishop Vegas would take Bishop and Fleury would remain a Penguin to their dismay. They're not gonna select both goalies.

I've made that point multiple times.