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2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

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KingsFan7824 said:
I'm just saying even the team that we're always comparing the Kings to doesn't throw rookies into huge minutes right off the bat. Look at Hartman early in the season. He wasn't playing a ton. As the season has gone on, he's gotten more time. Kempe has played 21 games at the end of the year. Hartman is 7th on the Hawks in average ice time at ES for forwards, which would make him a 3rd line guy if we're staying with the strict definition of top 6 forward.

Every fan of every team wants the young guys to play more. Most coaches though, if they have other options, and we're not talking the no doubt McDavid/Matthews/Laine level of draft pick, won't play the young guys as much as fans want them to. Bring in another coach, and I will bet he does the same thing on average.

It's how it goes. Same with roster spots. If teams have 13 or 14 NHL contracts up front, guess who will be on the team? The guys with the more expensive contracts. Unless you're Toronto, which sent a bunch of bigger contracts to the AHL, and had three top 10 picks play instead, including a guy that will probably be one of the top 3 or 5 players in the league for the next decade+. Kempe and Brodzinski aren't that. If they were taken 5th overall, and were playing on the 3rd or 4th line, ok, Sutter needs to play them more then.
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Love it, great post:


Here is another one

Jonny Brodzinski:

Three games played,

Sutter has actually increased his minutes(every game). 11:07,13:53, 14:31 mins VS Van.

Line Combo

40% Brown/Kempe/Brodz
29% Gabo/Kopitar/Brodz
23.4% Dowd/Brodz

I can crush this myth, ALL DAY LONG.
 
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Who wants to be the: "Trevor Lewis plays in the top six" (all the time) myth guy ?

I know there is one out there...

Bring it.
 
damacles1156 said:
Love it great post:


Here is another one

Jonny Brodzinski:

Three games played,

Sutter has actually increased his minutes(every game). 11:07,13:53, 14:31 mins VS Van.

Line Combo

40% Brown/Kempe/Brodz
29% Gabo/Kopitar/Brodz
23.4% Dowd/Brodz

I can crush this myth ALL DAY LONG.
Click to expand...

Easier to play Brodzinski more mins in games kings actually have leads in :) but i will agree its something nice to see :)
 
@7824, would you like to see Sutter stay one more year? I know you like Dean, but what do you think of Sutter as it pertains to 17-18, brother?
 
KingTrouty said:
@7824, would you like to see Sutter stay one more year? I know you like Dean, but what do you think of Sutter as it pertains to 17-18, brother?
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I would love Sutter to come back, if nothing else to spite the players. If Doughty is bored, or if Brown is sulking, suck it up and play some hockey. Really though, it depends on what the team is. If it's a sinking ship, then bring him back for another year, because what's the difference? What are you bringing a new coach into? If the players really have tuned him out, then maybe I guess you might as well let him go, even if it doesn't matter.

Unless you can get rid of Brown and Gaborik free and clear, I wouldn't even do anything to the roster. Sign the RFA's that need to be signed, bring everyone back, including Sutter, Kempe/Brodzinski/LaDue have jobs to lose, hope for some better health and some bounce back seasons, and see what happens. If they're crap in December, then fire Sutter, and if they keep being crap, then move some guys by the deadline, and start to trade guys that are worth something as the time passes toward the 2018 draft. Carter, Muzzin, Martinez, even Toffoli and Pearson if need be, and plan for 5 years from then when Brown and Gaborik are gone free and clear, and there's only a couple years left for Kopitar and Quick.
 
KingsFan7824 said:
I would love Sutter to come back, if nothing else to spite the players. If Doughty is bored, or if Brown is sulking, suck it up and play some hockey. Really though, it depends on what the team is. If it's a sinking ship, then bring him back for another year, because what's the difference? What are you bringing a new coach into? If the players really have tuned him out, then maybe I guess you might as well let him go, even if it doesn't matter.

Unless you can get rid of Brown and Gaborik free and clear, I wouldn't even do anything to the roster. Sign the RFA's that need to be signed, bring everyone back, including Sutter, Kempe/Brodzinski/LaDue have jobs to lose, hope for some better health and some bounce back seasons, and see what happens. If they're crap in December, then fire Sutter, and if they keep being crap, then move some guys by the deadline, and start to trade guys that are worth something as the time passes toward the 2018 draft. Carter, Muzzin, Martinez, even Toffoli and Pearson if need be, and plan for 5 years from then when Brown and Gaborik are gone free and clear, and there's only a couple years left for Kopitar and Quick.
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Thanks for the response, brudda. :yo:

I do think that Pearson should be untouchable, but that's about the extent to where we differ, assuming we get A+ stock coming back from any potential Muzz/AMart trade (and that's also assuming a total rebuild, as I love Muzz/AMart).
 
Points% against the East:
1.Sharks, .719
2.Hawks, .672
3.Wild, .597
4.Ducks, .594
5.Blues, .583
6.Flames, .578
7.Preds, .532
8.Kings, .500
9.Oilers, .484
10.Jets, .484
11.Coyotes, .469
12.Stars, .438
13.Avs, .391
14.Canucks, .375

Points% against the West:
1.Oilers, .717
2.Hawks, .681
3.Wild, .656
4.Ducks, .649
5.Blues, .604
6.Preds, .604
7.Flames, .585
8.Kings, .533
9.Jets, .531
10.Sharks, .521
11.Stars, .500
12.Canucks, .489
13.Coyotes, .394
14.Avs, .217
 
It was obviously over. But scoring one fluke goal against Phoenix when it's all on the line is irritiating.

After digesting the season as a whole though, I wouldn't necessarily say the Kings have bad players, they are just a bad team. Martinez had a good year offensively, Carter had an amazing first 3/4 season. Other than that (and the rookies), the rest of the roster had an off year below expectations. That's not luck, and there has to be a coaching change next year, the status quo isn't acceptable and the cap makes it impossible for the team to make big changes. They've crapped the bed for 3 years straight, might as well give it a shot with a new voice before Armageddon.
 
Fishhead said:
It was obviously over. But scoring one fluke goal against Phoenix when it's all on the line is irritiating.

After digesting the season as a whole though, I wouldn't necessarily say the Kings have bad players, they are just a bad team. Martinez had a good year offensively, Carter had an amazing first 3/4 season. Other than that (and the rookies), the rest of the roster had an off year below expectations. That's not luck, and there has to be a coaching change next year, the status quo isn't acceptable and the cap makes it impossible for the team to make big changes. They've crapped the bed for 3 years straight, might as well give it a shot with a new voice before Armageddon.
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Would like to see Carter get another crack at it with a true contender, and the Kings get the assets back in a trade a player of his caliber would comand. The guy can play a great supporting role for another two or three seasons. I don't think he can carry the load the Kings need him to carry though.

Imagine Carter on a team like Edmonton, Florida or maybe Toronto. Veteran presence, with the right attitude, and can still contribute. All at a reasonable price.
 
Fishhead said:
It was obviously over. But scoring one fluke goal against Phoenix when it's all on the line is irritiating.
Click to expand...

I believe Mr. Raccoon said that the Martinez goal was just like the Doughty goal against the Oilers in the last week of the 14-15 season, where Doughty scored on a trickler from center ice during a PP. That was all they could muster in a must win game against a bad team. How can things end so similarly? It's a little eerie.

The 11-12 and 13-14 seasons end with a Cup, and the 2013 season ends a round before the final. The 14-15 and 16-17 seasons end out of the playoffs, and the 15-16 seasons ends a round into the playoffs. The two 3 year segments of the last 6 years are almost mirror images of each other.

After digesting the season as a whole though, I wouldn't necessarily say the Kings have bad players, they are just a bad team. Martinez had a good year offensively, Carter had an amazing first 3/4 season. Other than that (and the rookies), the rest of the roster had an off year below expectations. That's not luck, and there has to be a coaching change next year, the status quo isn't acceptable and the cap makes it impossible for the team to make big changes. They've crapped the bed for 3 years straight, might as well give it a shot with a new voice before Armageddon.
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Forgot Pearson too. Career best for him this year. I'm not sure the rest of the roster had off years below expectations though. Kopitar did, Toffoli did, and Doughty and Muzzin were weird. What more was anyone expecting out of Brown? Lewis? Clifford? Needed more out of Gaborik, but is he a 15 goal guy, or a 25 goal guy these days?

They didn't have Quick for 5 months, and if he's the franchise goalie that we think he is, then he can't just be replaced with a 34 year old journeyman. Budaj didn't have the numbers(or the defensive group) that Jones and Scrivens had in 13-14. Awesome effort by Budaj, we'll probably talk about it for years, but his career best effort is basically Quick's career average. At the same time, Kopitar has a career worst offensive season. Those two things can't happen simultaneously. Then, again, add to that Toffoli being a little too ineffective. The Kings needed like 100 goals from Kopitar/Carter/Toffoli/Pearson. They came up about 20 short, and Kopitar and Toffoli should've been able to make up that difference. Or, were expected to, but had a couple injuries, and some overall ineffective play. If those two miss Lucic that much, then it'll be a while before the Kings win anything again.
 
For as much as I've come on here and posted things about who gets traded and why, Im really starting to think the team won't make any drastic roster changes but rather a coaching or FO change...

1-Kopitar, Doughty, Carter, Quick, Toffoli and Pearson are this teams building blocks...

2-Muzzin, Amart, McNabb, Bishop, Clifford and Nolan are trade candidates possibly a draft day deal..

3-Brown and Gaborik are going to be KINGS until they either bounce back or have 1-2 years left on their contracts

4-Forbort, LaDue and Gravel could potentially take a huge step forward and hit whatever their ceilings are while DD is still in his prime...

5-Kempe, Amadio, Brodzinski, Mersch and possibly a European kid are whats going to make us a competitive team again because we can't sign anyone, our trade candidates are coming off awful seasons and prospect pipeline is likely to run dry soon unless we hit in the next few drafts....
 
If Carter is a "building block" then you're already screwed. You either build a team to compete with him, or you trade him for pieces NOW. His value has never been higher in an abysmal season.

Honestly, what to do now isn't Dean's decision. He shouldn't be renewed. We won't have a solid idea about where this team is going until we see who the new GM is (or even if there will be a new GM)
 
Correct i should have stated core, and no you don't trade Carter because this team is still really good at Kings hockey they just have difficulty scoring..
Everyone, including myself wanted trades to be made, kids to be brought and a coaching/FO change but the reality is that this will be our team going forward for various reason and the best we can hope for is health and a return to productivity from certain players, continued maturation from our current rookies and maybe a new voice in the locker room who takes a different approach to the game...
 
KINGS17 said:
It will be even less for a 35 year old Carter, so why wait.
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I see your point but this isn't moneyball K17, we'd be getting maybe .75cents on the dollar if that...
Our problems lie deeper than getting a draft pick and a top prospect whose could still bust..We have anchor contracts that have stymied any financial flexibility needed to improve this team through free agency, we have exhausted our farm system by dealing recent picks and the kids that could have a plug and play impact on our team are in Russia...
Unless this team offers up a few spots to talented kids like Prokhorkin and Dergachyov, we'll continue to be in a wait and see approach... Some here think we shouldn't do it but I'm sure a team like the Hawks wouldn't have a problem with it...

Derek Forbort
Paul LaDue
Kevin Gravel
Adrian Kempe
Jonny Brodzinski
Nikolai Prokhorkin
Alexander Dergaychyov
Michael Amadio
Michael Mersch
Matt Roy
Kale Clague

These kids represent our best chance at resuming a competitive run (as a best case scenario of course)..
If we do trade either Muzzin/Amart, the saving should be used on these kids because their is nothing on the market that will be worth the money....
 
Knight of the Realm said:
I doubt we ever see the Russians in LA.
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I'm really confused on how we have such terrible luck with Russian draft picks???
If ever there was the time to take a chance it would be now! Offer Prokhorkin a spot, no AHL needed the kids has been good in the KHL aka the European AHL so why not?? He has skill, size and loads of talent
 
kings11 said:
I see your point but this isn't moneyball K17, we'd be getting maybe .75cents on the dollar if that...
Our problems lie deeper than getting a draft pick and a top prospect whose could still bust..We have anchor contracts that have stymied any financial flexibility needed to improve this team through free agency, we have exhausted our farm system by dealing recent picks and the kids that could have a plug and play impact on our team are in Russia...
Unless this team offers up a few spots to talented kids like Prokhorkin and Dergachyov, we'll continue to be in a wait and see approach... Some here think we shouldn't do it but I'm sure a team like the Hawks wouldn't have a problem with it...

Derek Forbort
Paul LaDue
Kevin Gravel
Adrian Kempe
Jonny Brodzinski
Nikolai Prokhorkin
Alexander Dergaychyov
Michael Amadio
Michael Mersch
Matt Roy
Kale Clague

These kids represent our best chance at resuming a competitive run (as a best case scenario of course)..
If we do trade either Muzzin/Amart, the saving should be used on these kids because their is nothing on the market that will be worth the money....
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Yes, all the more reason to move Carter now and get the most assets out of trading him as possible. This team isn't going to contend in the time Carter has left to be a solid contributor.

Carter is a wasting asset which holds little value for the Kings in the big picture. The team has won one playoff game in three seasons with him on the roster. Keeping him doesn't help the situation in a meaningful way.

You have to get over the idea that the Kings are going to insert a bunch of these kids into the lineup and then go on a meaningful competitive run. It's not going to happen.

Just look what they are up against in their own division for the next few years.
 
KINGS17 said:
Yes, all the more reason to move Carter now and get the most assets out of trading him as possible. This team isn't going to contend in the time Carter has left to be a solid contributor.

Carter is a wasting asset which holds little value for the Kings in the big picture. The team has won one playoff game in three seasons with him on the roster. Keeping him doesn't help the situation in a meaningful way.

You have to get over the idea that the Kings are going to insert a bunch of these kids into the lineup and then go on a meaningful competitive run. It's not going to happen.

Just look what they are up against in their own division for the next few years.
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The reason for inserting kids into the lineup is twofold, it gives a better evaluation of their talent while also showcasing them and hopefully creating further value based on their performance..
Move Carter and what do we get in return??? I don't want a 1st and a prospect because thats what we'd get from the teams that want/need a Jeff Carter! those teams are contenders with too low a draft pick and likely have a bare cupboard having traded away kids to stay competitive... We'd have to strike it big like Nashville did with Forsberg and thats not likely to happen..

With the expansion draft looming our best approach would be to keep the team intact and hope for a few bounce back performances..and if we need/should/must make a trade it should be at the trade deadline to maximize our return...
 
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